|
Post by Eric on Dec 25, 2005 4:55:37 GMT -7
Pieter As to judge the appearance of Eric, I would have thought perhaps, he was Swiss. I would have never thought of him as Jewish. The reason of my perception of thought, is: My first wife was Swiss, and so, I am familiar with the features of Swiss. And so, with many of us mortals, we are familiar with what we are accustomed to believe. Charles It's quite interesting... the majority of my ethnicity is German on both sides, but I have ancestors that cover almost the entire European continent - from Wales to Russia.
|
|
|
Post by sciwriter on Dec 25, 2005 10:04:30 GMT -7
My late parents & I were born in USA, and I have a mixed cultural heritage from my immigrant grandparents:
Maternal: Albanian, Ukrainian, Kazakh-Religions: Judaism, Ukrainian rthodox Christianity, Islam
Paternal: Germany, Austria, Poland-Religion: Judaism
I believe in God but don't adhere to any religion. Carl
|
|
|
Post by bescheid on Dec 26, 2005 10:51:12 GMT -7
Eric
Thank you for your very nice post reply. It is interesting of your European ancestral back ground. We all have to come from some where, it is so interesting to hear the back ground of others.
It would seem that the most of us are the result of events that shaped the progress of our ethnic families.
Charles
|
|
|
Post by bescheid on Dec 26, 2005 11:03:08 GMT -7
Carl
It matters not that you belong not to a religion, what matters is your strong belief in God withen your heart.
That is interesting, your back ground of Eastern European and Asian. Do you have the dark hair,eyes and features of the Kazakhstan and Albanian side?
During the war years, many many German families living in the Soviet Russian lands, were deported to Kazakhstan as security risks. Perhaps maybe or maybe not this would be the German side?
Charles
|
|
|
Post by pieter on Dec 27, 2005 13:10:53 GMT -7
Eric,
You are welcome, being a lifelong student is a Greek ideal and a practise of Intellectuals of all nationalities.
Charles, Jews are of all nationalities and often the often part of the intelligentsia in the countries they live in. So part of an intelligentsia where the majority can be non-jewish (goy). That is the case in the Netherlands, Poland, Russia and the USA. Many jews luckily do not fit into the physical stereotypical jewish image the Nazi's portrayed, because many of them look Germanistic (blond and blue eyes, Silver Jews), Slavic (Roman Polanski and Adam Michnik), just Anglo-saxon American, oridnary Duch or Franko-Latin (French/Spanish/Italian) or even Arab or Berber, when they come from the Middle-East or the Maghreb (Norhtern Africa). There is a differance between Ahskenazi people, Sephardi people and Mizrahi people, because they have differant cultural backgrounds. The most significant differances are ofcourse between secular and religious jews, and the differances between liberal, conservative and reform(Humanistic) jews and the (Ultra-orthodox). But these differances are the same as between secular and liberal/conservative christians, and the differant branches of Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox christian directions. Often people in Holland thought that I have a jewish background, because I was half a Pole, it is difficult to destinguish between Catholic and jew, maybe I have a jewsish appearance. People abroad so me as a Spaniard, a Frenchman, a jew, but never as a Duchman or a Pole. In America, a jewish man in a Casino (he called himself sam) in Nevada asked me what my religion was. I was suprised, because nobody in Europe ever asked me what my religion was. I told him Catholic. Yes, I know about the disgusting The Nuremberg laws of 1935, which later were specified in der Wannsee-Konferenz of januar 20th 1942. I was at my parents place during christmas and I asked a lot about my Polish families past, Poland before, during and after the war. I found out that a cousin of my grandfather (non-jewsh) was married with a Polish jew, and that he was killed in Katyn as a Polish officer, and that his son died in the Warsaw uprising. My mother played as a child with this boy who was an older nephew of her. So her aunt lost both her husbant and son, to the Russian and German occupiers. Two other uncles of the family also died in Katyn, and another nephew survived the Wasaw uprising. My Babcia was befriend with an old Russian aristocratic lady, who was the daughter of the last Tsarist Rusian commander of Warszawa, she styed in Poland and married with a Polish doctor. Her son also died in Katyn.
Pieter
|
|
|
Post by leslie on Dec 27, 2005 14:06:43 GMT -7
Pieter First time I have posted with you! I have to agree wholeheartedly with your attitude about Judaism. That is their religion and who is to object about them because of that. I certainly don't, and the most amusing person I have ever met was a big Irishman, a greengrocer, always in a long, black coat and a black Homburg (?) hat - a typical Jew with a broad Irish accent. Wonderful. I have a feeling that many people say they do not like Jews is because they are afraid of them - so many of them make a tremendous success of whatever they set out to achieve. Perhaps it is their history that makes them try to come out as high as they can. There are Polish, Russian, French, German, English, Irish etc etc Jews but as far as I am concerned it is not a case of calling them ' XXX country Jews' just that they are Polish, German etc. Funnily enough, in the UK we never refer to English Jews, for example; if they are referred to it is as a Jew (even that very rarely). Who cares a **** what the Nuremberg edict of 1935 said? That was 70 years ago with a WW and a Holocaust in between. Sorry for the rant, but my religion says a man is what he is and does both in relation to himself and others, whatever religion he has and he should be judged on that (or if even if he does not have a religion - and I have a few friends of that belief). That was a long way round saying that I agreed with you, but this growing thread has started to annoy me. Although I accept that those who have something to say, have every right to do so. Leslie
|
|
|
Post by pieter on Dec 27, 2005 16:34:03 GMT -7
Leslie,
In the Netherlands like in Great Britain rarely referred to it is as a Jew either, because they are Dutch citizens who speak Duch, look Duch, go Duch, live Duch, are Duch patriots and gave and give a great contribution to our country. Economically, scientifically, culturally and politically they gave a great contribution to the Duch society, nation and so history. Judaism is not an issue in Holland, because they are a tiny minority of 35.000 people on a population of 16 million people. Most of them are secular or non-religious, and from the religious jews the most are orthodox, but you have a liberal community to. You have two jewish meirs of larger cities (Cohen of Amsterdam and Wallage of Groningen, both from Duch Labour), the liberal-democrat chairman of parlaiment Weisglas is jewish, and we have exellent jewish journalists, writers, professors, poets, musicians, artists and teachers. Some of them are very rightwing (conservative and even nationalist), Zionist (Likud Holland), others are liberal, progressive, and even anti-Zionist or harsh critisizers of Israel (Another Jewish Sound; which is considered as traitors by other jews). Some of them are not interested in Judaism, Jewish faith and culture at all, and live secular Duch lives. Others converted themselves in the 19th and 20th centuries to the Protestant and Catholic faith. Most Duch can not destinguish jewish names from non-jewish names, and that is a good thing. I was infected with my fathers obsession with the Second World War and the Holocaust, and so read everything about that, saw all the images, documentries and movies (the most ugly details, the differant sides of the war; also the German -Nazi- and Sovjet -Stalinist- side.). From Primo Levi, and Tadeusz Borowski to the diary of Goebbels, and the organisation of the Nazi apparatus. A saying says that jews are like other peoples, but even more than the other people. Common life is very important for them, to do the daily things as good as possible, because every aspect of life is sacret to religious jews. That's why the big Irish greengrocer is part of Great-Britain and Ireland, and our Duch meir of Groningen, first of all is an administrator, ruler, politician, social-democrat and Groninger (an original Groningen citizen), and in the last part is a jew. Although there are cultural, political and ethnic tensions stil people look first at your achievements, your personal attitude and after that to your background. I have to say that Muslims have it hard now like jews who were discriminated in Europe in the past. Nowadays jews are invisible in my view or are respected and protected by the public moral and attitude. Develloped People don't like anti-semitism, racism, Islamophobia, Fundamentalism and extremism. In my utopic or Messianist vision Moderate Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindu's, Sikhs, Jainists, Buddhists, Bahai, Sufi's, Animists, Agnostic people, Humanists, New Age believers, Theosofists, and Atheists live peaceful in one Democratic society, in which respect for human dignity, freedom of expression and faith, and a belief in Freedom and Democracy are shared values. London and New York were, are and will be such places. Amsterdam was such a place and I hope that it will stay such a place, even when it gets a Muslim majority in the Future. Now we have the thread of terrorism, racial and ethnic tensions and religious devidance, we often don't see the moderate and peaceful Muslim majority anymore. I hope that in time we will reach that ideal society in the West in the near Future. Ofcourse I am an irational idealist, but don't confuse that with political correctness. My dream stays being a Cosmopolitan society, because I loved the multi-ethic mix in Paris, Berlin, Amsterdam in the eightees, ninetees and the last years.
Pieter
|
|
|
Post by bescheid on Dec 28, 2005 11:00:33 GMT -7
Leslie
This is a very interesting thread! How else am I to learn of Jewish people if not through conversation. Pieter is very knowledgeable and throws light upon this subject of interest.
My only reason for bringing up the Nuremberg laws of 1935, was simply a vehicle of illustration of the frailty of trying to classify people by facial and physical appearances. It simple does not work.
Long past years, I had attended a school of identification dealing with these traits of physical identification, but, it was strictly for investigation/identification and tracking. Every physical feature has differences, but, similarities. In as much as every one is born with finger and foot prints that are different, but, with similarities that can be classified. That is one of many tools to catch the bad guys/ladies with.
Charles
|
|
|
Post by bescheid on Dec 28, 2005 11:16:56 GMT -7
Pieter
For once again, you have done an out standing job of description! Thank you...
My personal exposure to some peoples is still a bit limited. In the past, while in the course of my work, I had occasion to meet with Jewish individuals. There were some who had been in the camps, and had the identification number tattoo on their arms, I fully understood the conditions and reason. Once I was embarrassed for looking at one of the numbers closely, and they made me feel very comfortable with explaining how they got it and the location of the camp, they had read my thoughts,as I was trying to determine the locator number.
Some were just working relation ships, while others, we become very close friends. I felt it when they become uneasy about some thing, and they in turn felt very similar as to me.
Fire arms have always been a tool in my work. As they were in the import/export business then. I needed some gun parts that were in very short supply, and they located the correct parts for me in a very short time, they made money and were well reimbursed for their efforts.
My mention of this is for our conversation, the nature of the events at that time have gone the way of time.
Charles
|
|
|
Post by leslie on Dec 28, 2005 13:16:27 GMT -7
Charles I couldn't agree more with you. In my simplistic way I would simply say that you can't judge a book by its cover! You have to read the words inside, words that are sometimes hidden with different meanings - sometimes different meanings to different people. Nowy Rok Leslie
|
|
|
Post by pieter on Dec 29, 2005 8:29:11 GMT -7
Charles,
Interesting story about your working environment, my only real jewish experiance is in South-Africa where my family has an appartment opposite to a sinagogue, in a jewish neigbourhood, with jewish kosher departments in supermarket, Bagelshops, pubs and restaurants. There I experianced Sabbath as an outsider, saw Purim festivities, and witnessed the jewish confuson about my parents and I when we stayed there. Exept for my blond, blue eyed sister the other free of our family are dark. Our hairdresser, a handsome, middle aged, sophisticated lady thought we were jews, my mother, father and I, because we all went seperately. And like in Holland the jewish community there was develloped, civilized, part of the white community (integrated), the businesscomunity, shopowners and Real estate agents (which I think is the most common job in Cape town, a booming town). The differance with Holland is that they have a bigger community and are really visible. In our street were three religious buildings, the sinagogue, a colored Baptist chruch and a white Methodist church. Some of the best friends of my sisters (English-South African) husbant are jews, and my sister and her husbant went to a jewish wedding. In South-Africa Christianity, Judaism and Islam are visible and live side by side. In the Netherlands only christianity and Islam are visible. About arms. In North Haven in the state Connecticutt you have the firm Mossberg, who produces several basic types of fire arms, from hunting guns to riotguns for the American army and police and other government services. In 1996 Mossberg took over Advanced Ordnance Corporation, which makes special parts and equipment for arms-, car-, and airplane industry. Also in 1996 Mossberg and the Israeli Military Industries started a joynt venture. This new company, Uzi America, is started to produce Jericho pistols (which is called Eagle in Northern-America), the Uzi machine guns and the Galil gunversion for the North and Southern-American market. The Uzi's and Galil's are mostly delivered to authorities.
This is my view on judaism and Zionism. Judaism is the oldest Monotheist religion, and christianity and Islam descend from that. The twelve jewish tribes devellloped themselves from Bedouin tribes (like many Arab clans today), to succesful, but discriminated and persecuted minorities in Europe and eslwhere. Fact is that many of them holded on to their faith, but that many others melted with the surrounding cultures and faith. So for judaism many people were lost who converted to Catholicism, Protestantism, Islam and atheism (Marxism, socialism, libertarism or the secular humanism). Few people realise that a large part of jewish demographic growth was lost, due to that. I have to say that many jews were forced to become christians in the Middle ages (in Spain those conversos were called Maranos). Others converted themselves, because they really blieved in the christian faith, such as Mahlers family, Phillips family and others. In the Middle ages many jews from Southern (Spain/Portugal) and (North)Western Europe (France and Germany) fled to Poland to escape the persecution and progroms in that countries. Poland was guestfree and could use the skills of the jewish immigrants, and for centuries jews would be protected by Polish kings, sometimes against an envy Catholic church who did not like the cultural and relgious influence of jews and the protestants (hussites, Lutheranians, Methodists and Calvinists that) came after that. Also farmers and Schlachtza often did not like the jewish settlements in their environment, because the Polish jewish community was that big that there were jewish villages and even jewish towns (towns with a jewish majority). There was even some sort of legislative seggregation, which was negociated between the Polish crown and the Jewish community leaders. Jewsh had their own religious legislation, language (Jiddish in daily use, and hebrew in their shul) and cultural customs. There was a significant differance between the Polish(traditional) Catholic farmer population and the jewish craftsmen, merchants and farmers. Many Polish peasents saw Jiddish as German, because it was the Ashkenazi (=German jew) language, with a lot of German elements (to me it sounds as a German dialect), and so there came the fake impression that the Jews were German allies. That most of the jews never had seen Germany and would not even understand hoch Deutsch, did not matter. Other jews from the Iberian peninsula, the Sephardim, even looked oriental, because of their Southern background. They had a differant kind of Sinagoge then the Ashkenazi (majority of the East-European, West-European and American jews are Ashkenazi), language (Ladino; a latin jewish language close to Spanish) and so culture. Baruch de Spinoza, the famous Duch philosopher came from a Portugese family and so had Sephardi roots. Duch jewish merchants cooperated with the Duch and Flemish Protestant merchants in the East- and West Indies companies, and often were of Sephardi background, many of them settled in Duch colonies in Brasil, Suriname, Duch Antilles, Cape Town, New Amsterdam (later New York), Batavia (Now Indonesia's capital Jakarta), and became succesful bankers, traders and entrepreneurs. Some American, South-African and Surinamese and Antillian businessfamilies and bankers are rooted in this history. From an American friend in Amsterdam who went to a highschool with a jewish majority I heard that in America there are a lot of marriages between jews and protestants. I think that that is because of the trade (commercial) simularities between both communities. They say that capitalism is rooted in Anglo-Saxon and Duch prebysterian (Calvinist) faith. This Calvinist faith is very old testamonial (next to the new testament of Christ), and that's why they might understand jews better than Catholics, who never were big bible readers, because the Catholic priest always translated the message of the bible to his churchgoers, in understandable language. Back to judaism. Jews themselves were not charmed by the christian mission, because they themselves do not try to convert other people (no, they even try to convince people not to when they want to be converted to judaism. "Why should you a Duch jew told a non-jew who visited a Duch jewish formum I was in. It is difficult, you have 600 rules. Why don't you stay as you are, it is easier for ya, and you can keep eating your eggs and bacon -with some jewish sense of humor-"). So I know I will never convert myself to judaism, because I really like the English and South-African breakfest. I love Eggs and bacon.
Zionism In the 19th century after centuries of anti-semitic attrocities, lynchings and progroms, jews witnessed the Nationalisms of the European nations. Theodor Herzl, an Austrian journalist was a German nationalist in his own student years, but witnessed that he was not accepted by the other GroßDeutsche Austrian nationalists, because as a Jew he was not part of the "deutschtus Volkstum" as a jew, because true Germaness in the German countries was only for those who had the German blood. As the Paris correspondent of the influential liberal Vienna newspaper Neue Freie Presse Theodor Herzl. He witnessed a wave of anti-semitism during the Dreyfus Affair; a Jewish officer in the French army, was unjustly accused of treason, mainly because of the prevailing anti-Semitic atmosphere. a Jewish officer in the French army, was unjustly accused of treason, mainly because of the prevailing anti-Semitic atmosphere. Herzl concluded that anti-Semitism was a stable and immutable factor in human society, which assimilation did not solve. He mulled over the idea of Jewish sovereignty, and, despite ridicule from Jewish leaders, published Der Judenstaat (The Jewish State, 1896). Herzl argued that the essence of the Jewish problem was not individual but national. He declared that the Jews could gain acceptance in the world only if they ceased being a national anomaly. The Jews are one people, he said, and their plight could be transformed into a positive force by the establishment of a Jewish state with the consent of the great powers. He saw the Jewish question as an international political question to be dealt with in the arena of international politics.
During his time he met a lot of scepticism in jewish circles, influential jewish figures so him as a phantast, a irrational dreamer with a crazy idea. Orthodox judaism was opposed to the idea of return to Palestine from the beginning, because only the Messia, the messenger of God could bring the people back. By no means Israel might be found by human hands, because it is a devine creation and an entity which will come into existance when G'd desides that it is time for that. Later Modern orthodox, liberal and conservative jews would embrace the idea of Zionism. Before the second world war Zionism was a thing of idealists, East-European pioniers (often Socialists), because most diaspora jews felt at home in the countries they live, and often were patriots of that countries like their christian and secular compatriots. The second worldwar changed everything, many jewish survivors wanted to leave Europe forever, because they feared not only the Germans, but had witnessed the betrayal of their non-jewish compatriots who often collaborated with the Germans. Now there was a reason for Zionism, a jewish homeland. And after the Israeli-Arab war in 1948 (Independance for Israeli's, Naqba -cathastrofe- for the Palestians), not only 700.000 Palestinians were driven out of "their" Palestine, but also 800.000 jews from Arab countries fled to Israel. The Israel of 1948 and the fiftees was differant than the Jishuv of the 19th century and differant from Israel today. It was a pioneer state with a Nietschian element (in my view), because the new jew had to be formed according to the Ashkenazi, Socialist elite who controlled the politics, the army, the Histadruth (biggest Union and employer), Kibbuts system and so society. The power was in the hand of Russian, Polish and German jews. They did not want the diversity of the old Diaspora culture, people who came on Aliyah (= jews who immigrate to Israel), the Olim, had to learn Hebrew, learn the customs of the Sabra (Israeli born, "Palestinian" jews), went to the Unifying Zionist army, Tsahal or IDF (Israeli Defense Forces), and started a completely new life. Israeli life was completely differant from their diaspora jewish life. The authorities, the society, the climate, and especially the Tsahal changed their lives. From helpless minorities they became proud (Jewish) Nationalists, soldiers, employees, workers of a new country. The jewish selfdefense organisations (Haganah), militia (Irgun) and in some cases terrorist organisations (The Stern gang) were merged to the Israeli army. People toughened by the war and Holocaust, people with differant backgrounds began to built up a new country on concurred land. The Holocaust victims not always got much sympathy or empathy, because the tough Sabra thought about their own struggle with the Arabs and the British. There was no time for mourning, because the country had to be built up, and the wars with the Arabs had to be won. In the same time the leaders had to be very pragmatic and strategic, because they had to choose the right side in the cold war. In the begiining the Socialist and even Marxist forces were stil strong, and people remembered that the Russians had liberated Auschwitz. America was affraid that Israel might go the Sovjet side, and so tried to gain influence in economical and military ways, through support. In the same time Germany felt a great guilt and supported Israel by paying "repair" money. France was secretly involved in Military support via the liason officer Shimin Peres (The Israeli airforce had mostly Mirage airplanes). And the rest of Europe admired the new Jewish state, also out of empathy, because of it's recent past. In the Suez crisis Israel cooperated witht the British and the French, who occupied the Suez chanal of Nassers Egypt. The Sovjet-Union and the Eastern European Communist countries became anti-Zionist and Pro-Arab. In 1968 the Polish government launced an anti-semitic campaign directed against the Polish intelligentsia and jews inside and outside the Communist party. A wave of jews left Poland and immigrated to Israel and the USA. A great problem for Israel and Zionism was the popularity of America under jews from the Sovjet-Union and other countries. The USA was the second promised land for the jews. Nowadays Germany is a problem for Israel, because many jews from Russia prefer Germany before Israel, in Berlin you have a vibrant, creative and succesful Russian jewish community which will merge in time with the German jews and Germans in general. Germany has the strictes anti-nazi laws in the world, and you could say that Germany today (and not the left fascist DDR) is the a real anti-fascist state. In Israel grew out of all that new Olim (Alyiah immigrants) a new sort of Jewish population, the New Hebrew speaking mix of Western and Oriental jews, their offspring became real Israeli Sabra's. The strange thing of history is that now most of the 1 million Israeli Arabs speak hebrew, and that a lot of Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank speak hebrew to, and even watch the television of the enemy. Like in America many communities stick to their customs, memories and languages of the countries the people came from, and in 1977 the power of the Ashkenazi elite was broken for the first time, by the Likud of Begin which was supported by a frustrated Sephardi and Mizrahi (Arab jews, where there are hundreds of thousands of from Marocco, Irak and Yemen) population who wanted to get rid of the Social-democratic rule. In 1984, 1985 and in 1989 during the Israeli operation Solomon tens of thousands of Falashas, Ethiopian jews came to Israel. In the same time a big wave of Russian immigrants came to Israel and boosted the economy with their technical and economical skills. American jews also went to Israel in their Orthodox zionist urge to live in the land of their forfathers and the prophets, they invested in the country and often were the Core of the Settlement movement of Yesha (in Gaza, West bank and on the Golan hights). Zionism today for much Israeli's is what American patriotism is for the Americans and Polish patriotism for the Poles, being proud of your country. Like Poles, Duch and Americans Israeli's are a very devided people, between left and right (especially Rightwing Israeli's despise Leftwing Israeli's), and secular and (Ultra)Orthodox (many secular Leftwing Israeli's despise the Ultra-orthodox, because they get government funding for their school system, don't have to do military service, and stand for a theocratic measurements). Israel is a democracy where jews, christians and Muslims have the right to vote and organise themsleves.
|
|
piwo
Citizen of the World
Co Słychać?
Posts: 1,189
|
Post by piwo on Dec 29, 2005 14:21:55 GMT -7
Is the Desert Eagle the same as the Jerico Eagle? I believe I own the 350th Desert Eagle off the assembly line. I read in a magazine back in the mid 1980's that production pieces started out with Serial #3000, which would make mine the 530th. I've tried to validate that with IMI (Israeli Military Industries), but to no avail. They are very powerful and well made, but too big for my hands...
|
|
|
Post by bescheid on Dec 29, 2005 15:36:56 GMT -7
Piwo
As I am not a collecter. I may not offer any advice. As the serial numbers of your weapon are so very low, it would be my guess that you had best keep it!
The weapon I trained on, was a Jerico IDF 44 magnium. It was finished in dark phosphate finish, not pretty, but, serviceable and strong. It was heavy, powerful with a not very well finished gas piston/cylinder, but very effective in operation.
Yours, the finish, is it chrome or phosphate milspec?
For the use of pupose, this weapons are tools for the tool box. A craftsman, never blaims his tools.
Hmm, forgot this: as an addition for your post. The IMI generally will not give out production figures. Mainly, for export unit numbers will not match production figures. One of the reasons is: some are out of serial number sequence (means they were produced, but, not produced) also, export number license may or may not conform to NATO regulations. One of the American designed watch dogs on weapons export.
Charles
|
|
|
Post by pieter on Dec 30, 2005 3:56:16 GMT -7
Is the Desert Eagle the same as the Jerico Eagle? I believe I own the 350th Desert Eagle off the assembly line. I read in a magazine back in the mid 1980's that production pieces started out with Serial #3000, which would make mine the 530th. I've tried to validate that with IMI (Israeli Military Industries), but to no avail. They are very powerful and well made, but too big for my hands... Piwo, I have a army automatic-rifle and pistol encyclopedias, and in my pistol encyclopedia the Desert Eagle pistols stand under I.M.I. (Israeli Military Industries)-pistols. After the military automatic machine guns, the I.M.I. also develloped guns for cival use. In cooperation with the American firm Magnum research from Minneapolis several exellent sportpistols were develloped. The Israeli urge for suitability crops up here, because in its standard forms this pistols satisfy as army- and police weapon. The Desert Eagle was the first pistol that was develloped, which has an unique double lock system with a rotating bolt. Initially the Desert Eagle was only available in kaliber .357 Magnum, but later also in the kalibers .41 and .45 and in the second half of the ninetees also in .50 AE (Action Express) and .50 Magnum. A smaller version, the Baby Eagle, who caries the name Jericho 941 followed later on. That is what I found out in my encyclopedia of 1997. I saw the Desert Eagle ones in a arms shop in Antwerp (Belgium), because in Holland there are no Arms shops (arms are forbidden for everybody who has not a licence and is not a member of a shoot club, and has a proper training and certificate of that. It is forbidden to have firearms at home. The guns are kept in the shootclubs in special closets, and they may only be used on the shooting range. I have never fired a real firearm in my life, but I am interested in arms as part of my historical, political interests, where military conflicts, guerilla and tactic and strategic manouevres and policies are part of the political process. So next to that I have a book of the worlds special forces and armies. I am not a collector and expert either. Here a text I find on the internet: The Saga of the Desert Eagle Pistol (as provided from Magnum Research Inc.) The Desert Eagle Pistol was conceived in 1979, when three people with an idea for creating a gas- operated, semi-automatic, magnum-caliber pistol founded Magnum Research, Inc. in St. Paul, Minnesota. Dozens of companies had chased the dream of putting magnum calibers into semi-auto pistols, but only Magnum Research really succeeded. Since then - in addition to making tens of thousands of customers very happy - the Desert Eagle has appeared in well over 100 movies and television shows. Magnum Research, Inc. continues to develop innovative firearms and to import high-quality firearms. Magnum Research, Inc. patented the basic design of the Desert Eagle in 1980, and the first working prototype of the pistol was completed in 1981. It was about 80% functional, with a rotating bolt, full gas operation and excellent shooting characteristics. The final refinements to the pistol were made by Israel Military Industries (IMI), under contract to Magnum Research, Inc. After research that included thousands of rounds of test-firing, a fully functional .357 Magnum production model was produced in an edition of just over 1,000 pistols. These pistols, collector's items today, have traditional land-and-grove rifling, and they will not accept extended barrels or caliber conversion kits. The serial numbers for these pistols start at #3001. Development of the Desert Eagle was not yet complete, however, in 1985, the barrel was changed to incorporate polygonal rifling, to help enhance the pistol's accuracy. In 1986, a .44 Magnum version of the pistol was perfected; it was the very first semi-automatic .44 Magnum pistol successfully brought to market. Also in 1986, Magnum Research set aside 1,000 serial numbers for the Collector Edition Presentation Series, consisting of 100 Gold Editions, 400 Silver Editions and 500 Bronze Editions. Each Mark 1.357 Magnum Desert Eagle Pistol was packaged in a walnut case with a commemorative coin. (Limited quantities and serial numbers are still available.) Further enhancements to the Desert Eagle line continued. In 1987, the .41 Magnum Desert Eagle Pistol (not currently in production) was introduced to fill a specific market niche. In 1989, the Mark VII model of the Desert Eagle became standard. All Desert Eagle Pistols manufactured since 1989 have Mark VII features: enlarged safety levers, an enlarged slide release and an improved, two-stage trigger. Most recently, Magnum Research, Inc. successfully introduced the .50 Action Express Desert Eagle Pistol to fill an unmet need in the sporting/hunting market. Since Magnum Research introduced the caliber - once considered impossible to build - several other manufacturers have begun to produce .50 Magnum (a.k.a. .50 Action Express) firearms. Three brands of ammunition are available: Magnum Research in .300 grain jacketed-hollow point and .350 grain jacketed-soft point, Samson ULTRA .300 grain jacketed-hollow point and jacketed-soft point (also available through Magnum Research, Inc.), and CCI/Lawman. Reloading items are available from RCBS/CCI/Speer. While the Desert Eagle is Magnum Research's most famous product, it isn't the firm's only innovation. Other Magnum Research, Inc. products have been added over the years, including the Baby Eagle Pistol, the Lone Eagle Pistol, the Mountain Eagle Pistol and the Mountain Eagle Rifle. The firm has also recently introduced the new Magnum Lite uni-directional Graphite Barrel for the Ruger 10/22 Rifle and the BFR stainless revolver series in .45-70, .410, .454 Casull and other hunting calibers. See also: en.freepedia.org/Desert_Eagle.html
|
|
piwo
Citizen of the World
Co Słychać?
Posts: 1,189
|
Post by piwo on Dec 30, 2005 12:15:35 GMT -7
beschied, pieter, thank you ever so much for you information and research.
This is exactly what I remember reading many years ago. My Desert Eagle is of this first batch, and is Serial #3530, which makes it a fairly low number. NOW, if my spouse had just not thrown away the box it come in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you all for the exceptional research. Guess I should wipe it down every now and they, and hold on to it!
MY APOLOGIES FOR THE BRIEF HIJACK, BACK TO THE REGULARLY SCHEDULED TOPIC!
|
|