Polish premier defends reference to his country's

[justjohn]

The Scotsman Fri 6 Jul 2007

Polish premier defends reference to his country's wartime legacy
ETHAN MCNERN

POLAND'S prime minister has defended a reference to his country's wartime suffering made during a recent debate over a new EU treaty, saying that if Jews were allowed to refer to history Poland should be too.

Jaroslaw Kaczynski made the comments in an interview with Germany's Die Welt newspaper which appears today.

He stunned European Union counterparts before a summit last month by suggesting Poland deserved more voting power because its population would have been much larger had it not been for Nazi German occupation during the Second World War.

"I am very surprised by some people's view that you can't return to questions of history," Kaczynski was quoted as saying in Die Welt.

"The Jews also return to this question, to the question of the Holocaust," he said. "Does that mean others may do it but not Poland?"

Kaczynski accused Germans of revisionism.

"Germany was not a victim of this war. Germany was the aggressor," he said. "If someone tries to give the impression that Germany's suffering is comparable with Poland's then that is very disturbing."

Kaczynski said on Wednesday Poland would push to get concessions on an EU voting system agreed at the summit in Brussels last month.

Warsaw's insistence threatens to reignite its row with EU partners, who say the treaty mandate was clear and does not need to be discussed again.

Poland says it had verbal agreement from EU leaders to allow countries to delay decisions by up to two years if they did not have quite enough votes to block them, but EU officials say such a delay would be four months at most.

Kaczynski told Die Welt German Chancellor Angela Merkel had agreed that decisions could be delayed by up to two years.

"Verbal agreements are valid in civil law," he said. "There was a political agreement, a gentlemen's agreement, and as such it must be respected."

Poland's economy is booming thanks to a large inflow of EU funds and such combative behaviour should not put that money at risk.

But analysts say the repeated fights will leave permanent scars in relations with key partners for the future and sideline the country in EU politics.

Opinion surveys show most Poles are happier with the European Union than their leaders, and the EU quarrels inspire far fewer headlines than a strike by doctors and nurses.

But for the prime minister and his twin brother, President Lech Kaczynski, such points are not important.

Behind their foreign policy has always been a feeling that Poland must never be duped, particularly by old enemy Germany, which they say is now trying to dominate politically as it once did militarily.

The only ally they appear to value is the United States, most of all as a counterweight to Russia, which was a foe for hundreds of years.

This article: news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=1053962007

[Jaga]

I am not sure that it was a smart move to argue that Poland should have more votes because it suffered during WW II. On the other hand Kaczynski is right that Jewish comunity often reminds the world about its suffering even in relations to the current conflict with Palestinians.

[bescheid]

admin said:

I am not sure that it was a smart move to argue that Poland should have more votes because it suffered during WW II. On the other hand Kaczynski is right that Jewish comunity often reminds the world about its suffering even in relations to the current conflict with Palestinians.

I do agree also of the Jewish organizations of making use of the Holocaust for political gain is a bit worn thin at present.

In as much to the Warsaw government. They use this old saw of an argument as an old worn out tired song, just a smoke screen to cover up their incompetence. They are afraid of the Russians, and instead have gone to the Americans to use as a hammer. This in self is a dangerous move for nothing is for nothing, the Americans in exchange will require of Poland certain concessions as exampled by:

Assistance with troops and equipment in the Iraqi war

Use of Polish ground for political positioning of rocket forces

Arms sales of out dated military equipment {F-16 fighter aircraft}.

The long range goal has been to position divide Poland from the high possibility of a unified Europe. But, this has escaped the attention of the twins. For their attention has been on free money and free what ever the Americans have to offer of use.

To the Currant American Administration. A unified Europe would present a clear and endangerment with a strong political base, a standing military, a clear and present international trade consolidation with control of price/currency value/ and re-organization of foreign balance of payments presently held by the USA. Meaning, a real and possible devaluation of the American dollar against the standing EURO.

Apparently the twins missed economics class whilst attending University training.

Charles

[pieter]

To come back on this topic, I found this Israeli article today and read it and found out it was a support of the Polish president and prime-minister:

The Poles remember; do we?
Despite criticism at Brussels summit, Polish leaders refuse to let Germany forget its dark past
Published: 06.28.07, 18:56 / Israel Opinion

Talks about the new European treaty aimed at substituting the constitution that failed in referendums were conducted last week on behalf of Poland by Lech Kaczynski and his twin brother, Jaroslaw – the former a president and the latter the prime minister.

Lech sat in the session halls in Brussels alongside a translator and a phone line to the chambers of his brother Jaroslaw - the hardened and sophisticated of the two and the one who calls the shots. The German press named Jaroslaw Kaczynski the "bad brother," and spared no criticism at Poland's behavior during the Brussels summit.

And indeed, those Poles are full of chutzpah: Not only did they dare oppose the proposed change in the voting system that elects the ministers of the European Council; a modification that would have doubled the relative power of the larger states - particularly Germany's – but they also dragged Poland's history into the summit – a history of humiliation, downfalls, betrayals and conquests, which even now remains at the heart of Polish cultural discourse.

It suffices to walk into any bookshop in Warsaw to see the pile of new books on historic topics being grabbed off the shelves.

In a rare interview, the Polish prime minister said: Germany should not flaunt its demographic and economic advantages and feel superior. It should remember that it was Germany that launched World War II, that it was Germany that attacked Poland and took it over, and that it was German soldiers who murdered millions of Polish citizens.

If not for this, he said, Poland would currently have a population of 66 million as opposed to 38 million.

Kaczynski's statements infuriated some of the 27 heads of state attending the unification summit in Brussels. At the heart of the idea of a United Europe is a decree to forget past disputes, bury history and annul the settling of scores. This forgetfulness is a precondition for reconciliation and for building a common future.

Alas, suddenly, two provincial Poles came along and proceeded to dig up the unpleasant matter of that thing called World War II. Shame on you, you Poles, the European press lashed out at the brothers Kaczynski, what made you remember Germany's guilt only now? How disappointing that contrary to your image you have no table manners; there are things that are no longer discussed in our parts.

Was it worthwhile?
By the end of a full day of tense discussions the twin brothers got their way: Germany's de facto control over European unification would be postponed for several years.

The way in which Poland got its way raised harsh questions in Warsaw itself. Was it worthwhile, wondered the Poles, to anger Angela Merkel, Germany's popular chancellor who lost her equilibrium in face of the Polish chutzpah?

Was it worthwhile stirring the ghosts of that Germany – a Nazi, conquering, murderous Germany, and to be depicted as Europe's troublemaker? To lose friends for the sake of the principle of equality between nations, a principle that the bureaucrats in Brussels will inevitably dilute, bend and dissipate?

Yes it was worthwhile; very worthwhile.

I traveled to Poland this week to attend the laying of a cornerstone for an impressive Polish enterprise: The building of a museum commemorating the history of the Jews of Poland in the heart of Warsaw, opposite the monument of the ghetto revolt, at a cost of tens of millions of dollars to the public coffers.

But I also went there to tell my concerned friends in Poland: I bow in appreciation to your stance at the European treaty summit. It is commendable that there is still someone on the European continent – where political correctness is destroying all independent thought – who remembers who the aggressor and who the attacked were, who the victims were and who the murderers were - someone who remembers and says so out loud.

The Holocaust has not been forgotten over the last two decades, yet somehow it, as well as other World War II atrocities, has shifted from their German origins.

As though the war crimes were perpetrated by some mysterious barbaric tribe outside of Europe, far from its beautiful capitals, and for a while forced itself on the lofty German-European culture and forced it against its will to conquer, murder and exterminate.

This pagan tribe deserves every form of condemnation; but Germany? Our Germany? Our Europe? How ridiculous. Europe and the Nazi atrocities have nothing to do with each other.

But they do. Fascism and Nazism are both the offspring of Europe. They are both significant components in European culture throughout the generations. Fortunately the Poles refuse to forget this; it's a shame that we have.

Source: www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3418645,00.html

[bescheid]

Thank you Pieter for bringing this to our attention. For it is truth and freedom. For either must be protected and fostered to the very most. And as so, one writers opinion, for perhaps this one person may be in effect, speaking for many others who perhaps are silent for their own reasons.

But, is this a national feeling? Is the writer actually speaking for the majority in Israel, the Majority in Poland?

It is now the eve. before new Polish elections, and of course this typen of speak will come up, for it is in the political view point, a pressure point.

I would tend also to suspect a situation I am sure, the writer is very much aware of. There are presently some very currant and present situations in resettlement of Eastern Jewish people in Germany, some what centred in and around the Berlin area. It is not the German side that is the problem, it is the Jewish acceptance as to what constitutes what a Jew is. If the father is Jewish and the mother is not, or as the matter is turned, if the mother is Jewish and the father is not. Is the off spring considered {Jewish}.

This has come to light to the extent of the government of Israel, is very concerned and wishes for these Eastern Jewish people, to make with hast, to immigrate to Israel and gain there citizen ship as an Israeli.

In as much to the terms of Barbaric tribes, well, this very true for we were very difficult people to deal with, and of course, we were very barbaric and fierce fighters, we even fought amongst our selves. But this was practice to use against the Romans...But, alas, we have lost our will to be barbaric and with this, we lost our will to succeed.

In as much to the use of {Flaunt demographic and economic advantages} yes this is true, we do. But, we do not just only for our benefit, but also for the benefit of others. For Germany is an country of production and distribution. If there are no customers to buy our products, then we are out of business. For Germany is an export competitive business nation of a world wide nature.

For if we are so fearful as to monsters, then be it so, for fear is of the mind. If a person has not the attribute to control of their fear, then what will be come of them as the lighting is extinguished?

In as much to Polish process of politics, this is for the Polish people to decide. It is not a German concern. Perhaps I speak overly boldly and overly with unearned certainty, well yes of course, for I am a barbarian, how else am I to speak...

news.monstersandcritics.com/europe/news/printer_1351310.php

Charles

[husssar]

I actually give respect for Kaczynski's acts, although perhaps abit rude, they state a very goood point.
Our nations interests (as well as others) were not taken into consideration.

I admit Poland isnt an economic powerhouse, but democracy should give everyone a fair say.
Brussels idea of deriving voting power by the squaring of a countries population definatley raises question of how fair the EU really is and who really gets the control.
I dont understand how EU politics couldnt accept a more fairer system like the proposed square-rooting.
Anyone agree?