|
|
Post by Jaga on Dec 31, 2007 22:36:31 GMT -7
I am not sure what to think about it. Many German civilians suffered after the war. I guess, just the right balance need to be held between the victims of the war and the later suffering of the expelled:German President Köhler has said expellee groups should be included in plans for a memorial in Berlin, opposed by Poland, to recall the sufferings of ethnic Germans forced out of Eastern Europe at the end of the war. In an interview with Germany's Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung newspaper, Köhler said he saw "no plausible reason" to exclude such groups from the project approved by Chancellor Angela Merkel's coalition government. "Their expertise would prove helpful," the president said in the interview on Saturday, Dec. 29. .... more: www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,3029882,00.html
|
|
|
|
Post by valpomike on Jan 1, 2008 9:46:25 GMT -7
I stand with the Polish people, and oppose this also. Why do we need the poor German's who caused all this pain, in the first place.
|
|
|
|
Post by pieter on Jan 1, 2008 10:40:15 GMT -7
Dear Jaga and Valmopike,
We all look at history from a personal, national and ethnic background, from a Polish, American, Dutch and in Charles perspective from a German background. I agree with you that first the Poles, Jews, Dutch and others were victim of German brutality and
totalitarianism. But during and after the war Germans were also victims of allied airraids on German cities (Dresden, Hamburg, Berlin and etc.), the revenge of the advancing Red army and Poles in Silezia and Czechs in Sudetenland. Millions of German women and girls were raped by Red army soldiers. Many Red army soldiers were executed by the Sovjets after that.
Ofcourse the retaliations were a sort of counterterror actions on mass scale, a sort of an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth, but like in any war the revenge was not always aimed at the right people. Germans were seen as Germans indiscriminately, and therefor the Non-Nazi Germans, and even oponents of the Nazi's were as much victim like their Nazi compatriots.
It was the same as the Nazi terror against the Poles, Russian, Czechs and jews, but on a less large scale and not aimed at the total destruction of the German race. The Germans had to undergo the fate the victims of the Third Reich had to endure during the Second world war. Yes, German men, women and children were killed, tortured and ethnically cleansed to. Like Germans made Polish, Czech and "Jewish" populated area's Judenrein, or Polen/Czechenrein, the Poles and Czechs made Silezia and Sudetenland "Deutschrein". The German grandparents of a Dutch girlfriend of mine were expelled from the area near Sztetinn, and they were anti-nazi. Their ancesters had lived there for hundred of years. Form the other side Poles from Eastern-Poland shared the same fate, as they were kicked out of their homes by the Sovjets, and a lot of these Eastern-Poles came to West Poland to live in the houses of the German victims of eviction (The Heimatvertriebenen).
Pieter
|
|
|
|
Post by bescheid on Jan 1, 2008 12:01:56 GMT -7
I stand with the Polish people, and oppose this also. Why do we need the poor German's who caused all this pain, in the first place. Herr Michael 1st, I am to place you in the position of explanation, ok? What do you know of what Jaga is speaking of? Do you actually know? What are we talking of? Charles |
|
|
|
Post by bescheid on Jan 1, 2008 12:53:36 GMT -7
Jaga
I would wish to speak plainly of this. Herr Köhler is a good man, his intents are very honourable, in as with city Berlin, is a very progressive city {our capital}, the citizens as Berliners, are very knowledgeable and equaly progressive.
But, Herr Köhler and Berliners, are not all of Germany. For many of us do not agree with this, and for why? Well, not only speaking for my self, but many of us {North German} do not wish to commenterate events of over 63 years past of a devastating defeat. And of this, some very far reaching to today of German Ethnic families {men/woman/children} that were forced against their will out of the öst. These people have committed nothing, they were citizens of those respective countries.
For to open this, a flood gate, will in self, open up the sins of others that have been buried for all this time.
There is no reason for this.
As a person, a surviver of our time, yes, I am very much aware as a child of some of these öst Prussians, for they passed us whilst my life in Dänemark {my home of Esbjerg} in their flight for safety to Schweden. And yes, we did help with food stoff for many of them. For whilst some of these many in our area, were only attempting to save them selves for the limited time left for the Harbour of Copenhägen, our Navy was in control of this area with one battle ship of protection.
For what I have witnessed as a kleines Jungen, very easily would be to extreme hate. But this is not within my self. For I realize that this was a war time. For the time was not normal.
The only result of experience perhaps that was to effect of my adult hood, is the absence of compassion Whilst in company of that of the enemies of my country {Kosovo}.
Charles
|
|
|
|
Post by valpomike on Jan 1, 2008 13:00:15 GMT -7
Charles,
Can't you speak in understanding ways? I don't understand your broken German, and don't want to. Again, you are not allways correct. What did you want to say to me? Try it again, this time in full English.
Michael Dabrowski
|
|
|
|
Post by valpomike on Jan 1, 2008 13:02:40 GMT -7
Pieter,
But the best I know, the Polish did nothing to the Germans, but fight back. Did the Polish ever got into Germany to kill them? If I am in error, please correct me.
Michael Dabrowski
|
|
|
|
Post by bescheid on Jan 1, 2008 13:55:15 GMT -7
Charles, Can't you speak in understanding ways? I don't understand your broken German, and don't want to. Again, you are not allways correct. What did you want to say to me? Try it again, this time in full English. Michael Dabrowski Michael Please now, you are not so stupid as not to understand me.. Please, now is the time to describe what you know? So, what do you understand of the post presentation that Jaga has presented? Do you know? Or must we endure some more of your nothings? Please say if no, then this is ok, if you do know, then please to expound upon us so that we may be enlightened if only of a bit. Charles |
|
|
|
Post by pieter on Jan 1, 2008 17:40:09 GMT -7
|
|
|
|
Post by freetobe on Jan 1, 2008 19:16:05 GMT -7
On the subject of monuments: Love the sculpture, art and honoring of memorable persons,events,etc. Today we seem to want to memorilize every disaster in the past century. Every plane crash, every car crash, every tragedy. Any of us who studied and cared about history understand that these latest memorials are additional tombstones to lost loved ones. I guess it takes as long as it takes to let go of the past and move on. Let us hope that 2008 will allow humans to achieve improvements in gene reproductions and those scientifically gifted in this respect to help the rest of us. Based on past history, it's achieveable in about a million or so years. Szczesliwego Nowego Roku!
|
|
