Post by pieter on Sept 19, 2006 16:55:11 GMT -7
bujno said:
Pieter, it is not like that I don't divide my family into "old" or 'new' Varsovians. I don't care about that that much. And more generally - a very large part of the inhabitants of Warsaw weren't born in Warsaw. Yet they are VArsovians. Some just after a very short time here feel that they are Varsovians, some after many many years -don't. The newcomers to Warsaw are generally the most 'success hungry', they work the hardest, since they do not have the knowledge of people, they don't know the niuances of the city social backstage. The city as it is today is not the effect of the Varsovians work, it is the effeect of newcomerrs work. And to the older members about my family - the good old, so called aunts (ciocie). They rarely actually complained verbally about the new-comers. It is in the non-verbal part of communication, but not just that. It was more the way: all is clear. Nowadays it is different, most of the oldest family members, those who witnessed the pre-war life in Warszawa are already gone. Those who are still with us do not complain about the newcomers of today. In the old times - the newcomers were often party apparatchiks that came to Warsaw, took the jobs offered to them by PZPR, actually disliking Warszawiacy as 'inteligenciki', this was the problem. You are right that this old generations of pre-war Warszawiacy is different, they are very special about their manners, knowledge of Latin, Greek, the general feeling, the way they dress , even the way they hold the head, their gestures. But it is not so that 'the culture'a only in Warsaw in the prewar times. My mother lives here for 54 years, she feels very connected with Warszawa, but she joked with my father from the family typical intelligentsia of mixed Catholic/Jewish assimilated origin , that it is she, from a really old family in terms of the genealogy, who is one of those who brought culture to the destroyed city It is all somewhat complicated, yet it is clear to me that there is no sharp social differentiation between old and new-comers, at least at level of work-places, business, art, science. It can't be! Without newcomers Warsaw wouldn't thrive! Wojtek,
Great, good that you told your story about Warsaw. It is very interesting for me, because it is so insightful. You show like it is in your eyes, and it has sociological elements in it, as when you describe the behavior of groups, mentalities and movements of people.
Every city, Capital in the world thrives on newcommers, who contribute to the cities economy, social structure and culture. In the same time you havew always the people who have family roots in a place for centuries, who have a city mentality and it's atmosphere in thier vains, their way of behaving. Like we say in the Netherlands you have the typical Amsterdam man or women, who has an Amsterdam way of saying things, doing things, reacting to things, communicative in pubs, restaurants and night clubs. You have the Amsterdam way of complaining, which in a sort of humoristic way
is a sort of rhetorical art, in the singing Amsterdam accent, the People Amsterdam dialect. In the same way the Amsterdam anciène riche, bourgeoisie, aristocracy (the ruling families, the merchants, the lawjer firms, the bankers families and etc.) and academic class (the intellectual level) have a typical Amsterdam tradition, of the Amsterdam market, Amsterdam universaties, stock market and cultural life.
New commers (when they are Dutch, because immigrants have their own immigrants subcultures,although there kids speak Amsterdams dialect or accent too) adabt to this
special Amsterdam phenomenon of "being Amsterdam folks".
I think you have that less in Poland, because I heard from my mother and other Poles,
that you do not really have city dialects or accents, or regional dialects in Poland, like you have them in the Netherlands. I can recognise ordinairy people from Amsterdam, The Hague or Rotterdam from the accent they speak, and people from rural area's from which region they come. Many people speak Dutch without accent, but many other speak the dialect or accent from their village, town, city or region.
I noticed that Warsaw has a dynamic, pragmatic, Cosmopolitan population when I see you, Adam and Scatt living there, all three of you men of the world, with differant backgrounds, but with simular experiances. Newcommers become integrated, work themselves into the Warsaw economy, find themselves a suitable place in society, contribute to that society, are appreciated for their hard work, and add to the increase of the town by having childeren, a new Varsovian generation. This is also the first time that
a Post-Communist generation grews up, who did not know Communism from first hand.
Varsovians that grew up in a free, pluriform, democratic country, with a market economy, being an integral part of the European (EU) and Western (Atalantic; NATO)
structures, and an Europeanised class of workers in the West, of whom many return
to work in Warsaw if they have the chance. Also some old dissidents from the West or other Expats returned to their city. The city must be like any other European capital,
the place where the fruit of the nation is, where the political core lays, where foreign diplomacy thrives, where trade, commerce and cultural developement meet eachother,
have their own fields of exploration, and merge in some other cases.
Warsaw is a building ground, growing market, Western city and the heart of Central Europe, laying inbetween Moscow and Berlin, Helsinki and Budapest.
Pieter