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Post by pieter on Sept 26, 2006 14:06:57 GMT -7
pieter Also that I like David Bowie. I like him as an artist, but, not necessarily of some music by him. He always seemed unpredictable with his music, some times crazy, some times wild, and some times very mellow. It is funny now, but for time in past, I actually thought he was Australian. It was the hit {Lets Dance} and {China Girl}, then in time, to have learnt that he was British, was a revelation to my senses. Another rock star, that of Falco {Johann Hölzel}. At the moment I recall only a few of his hits being{ Alles Klar-Herr Komissar} and {Rock me Amadeus} Some times though, he was difficult to understand because of his Viennese diolect with some of his music. Charles Charles, You bring back memories of the eightees, I remember a very dramatic song of Falco in English with a very Austrian-German accent, I got an album with the greatest hits of 1986 or 1987 from my sister on the typical Dutch traditional evening of Saint Nicholas (*Sinterklaas; a children's fest, before christmus, about a Spanish bishop and his Moorish -black Pete's-, who goes over roofs with his white horse), and on that album was Falco's dramatic eightees hit " Jeanny". Falco was nearly a Camp figure in the Netherlands, with his Austrian accent and his Playboy look. I did not like Rock me Amadeus, but liked the controversial Jeanny hit. " Vienna Calling" and " Jeanny" from the album Falco 3 were well-known international hits. " Jeanny" was somewhat controversial when it was released in Germany and the Netherlands, because it was told from the point of view of a rapist and possible murderer. Several DJs and radio stations refused to play the song, although it became a huge hit in many European countries, and inspired two sequels on later albums. The song: JeannyLyrics: Rob & Ferdi Bolland/FALCO, Music R. &. F. Bolland; Published by Bolland M./Nada M./ManuskriptJeanny, komm, come on Steh auf - bitte, du wirst ganz naß Schon spät, komm - wir müssen weg hier, raus aus dem Wald, verstehst du nicht? Wo ist dein Schuh, du hast ihn verloren, als ich dir den Weg zeigen mußte Wer hat verloren? Du dich? Ich mich? Oder, oder wir uns?
Jeanny, quit livin' on dreams Jeanny, life is not what it seems Such a lonely little girl in a cold, cold world There's someone who needs you Jeanny, quit livin' on dreams Jeanny, life is not what it seems You're lost in the night, don't wanna struggle and fight There's someone, who needs you, babe
Es ist kalt, wir müssen weg hier, komm Dein Lippenstift ist verwischt Du hast ihn gekauft und ich habe es gesehen Zuviel rot auf deinen Lippen und du hast gesagt: "Mach mich nicht an" Aber du warst durchschaut, Augen sagen mehr als Worte Du brauchst mich doch, hmh? Alle wissen, daß wir zusammen sind ab heute, jetzt hör ich sie! Sie kommen Sie kommen, dich zu holen Sie werden dich nicht finden Niemand wird dich finden, du bist bei mir
Jeanny, ...
Newsflash: In den letzten Monaten ist die Zahl der vermißten Personen dramatisch angestiegen. Die jüngste Veröffentlichung der lokalen Polizeibehörde berichtet von einem weiteren tragischen Fall. Es handelt sich um ein neunzehnjähriges Mädchen, das zuletzt vor vierzehn Tagen gesehen wurde. Die Polizei schließt die Möglichkeit nicht aus, daß es sich hier um ein Verbrechen handelt.
Jeanny Jeanny, ...* en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinterklaas
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Post by bescheid on Sept 26, 2006 14:28:42 GMT -7
pieter
Yes, yes, I forgot Jeanny. That was a very sad song and moving. Also had I forgot of {Vienna Calling} crazy but fun to listion.
What did you guys think of Rammstein?
Charles
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bujno
Cosmopolitan
Posts: 648
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Post by bujno on Sept 26, 2006 15:28:03 GMT -7
It is after midnight (and still 18 degrees C !!) so.... for today we have one of our giants. And perhaps at last someone possibly recognized by the US residents The giant is accompanied by the giant-ess
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Post by pieter on Sept 27, 2006 4:35:48 GMT -7
The Bowie story reminded me of Iggi Pop and the Stooges again, and I bought the Record "The Stooges" and " Lust For Life" this afternoon. Lust for life was an important number during my art study, it was a sort of scream or statement that gave me positive energy.
Pieter
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Post by pieter on Sept 27, 2006 5:48:09 GMT -7
It is after midnight (and still 18 degrees C !!) so.... for today we have one of our giants. And perhaps at last someone possibly recognized by the US residents The giant is accompanied by the giant-ess Wojtek, I discriminate in Jazz music, because I prefer mostly Black musicians, Afro-American artists like Duke Ellington, John Coltrane, Charlie Parker, Billie Holiday, Count Basie, Erroll Garner, Ben Webster, Thelonious Monk (perfect imperfection, a personal touch), Nat King Cole, Art Blakey ( jazz drummer), Louis Armstrong, Oscar Peterson, Herbie Hancoc, Sonny Rollins, Miles Davis, Ray Charles, Ella Fitzgerald, Peggy Lee, Nina Simone and Sarah Vaughan. Why, because in the improvised, and conservatory white jazz I heard in the Netherlands, and other countries I missed the sound of the " Black nobility" , " the African roots of jazz", the special African-American touch(y feeling), soul, rythem, sensabilty and tradtion. From the other hand you do have white jazz musicians, who have the special gift that they sound black (some blacks call them " White nigers" or " White negroes"), and that are people like Chet Baker and Dusty Springfield. Next tot that you ofcourse had the great typical American phenomenon George Gershwin who merged jazz and classical music into new compositions. I like Polish and Czech jazz sometimes, and have the feeling that they are very close to the " old school", classical Afro-American jazz. You hear that they know the American jazz very good. Good Jazz musicians are rooted in the century old Jazz tradition of America, Europe and Africa.
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Post by pieter on Sept 27, 2006 5:53:50 GMT -7
It is after midnight (and still 18 degrees C !!) so.... for today we have one of our giants. And perhaps at last someone possibly recognized by the US residents The giant is accompanied by the giant-ess Wojtek, I think I lied this one, it breathes and tastes like the soul of jazz. And I have to say that I am not a jazz expert, listen more to rock, European chançon, Pop and classical music. You have an ecclectic taste Wojtek, and so an open mind, I like that. I like your contributions and your Youtube choices. Thanks! Pieter
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bujno
Cosmopolitan
Posts: 648
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Post by bujno on Sept 28, 2006 6:29:45 GMT -7
I must confess thta I differentiate only two types of music. Good one and the rest of it Jazz is just a way of interpretation not a separate 'type' of music actually. At certain time I found there's no reason to say 'no' to jazz while I like classical, rock and pop. Of course jazz was created by the Afro-Americans, God bless them for that! All what we call pop music and rock music practically grew out, sprouted from the jazz seeds. Polish pop and rock are aimed and received by Poles mainly, since the majority of the Polish artists prefer to sing in thei mother tongue. And the lyrics in rock and pop are very important. It is not that important in jazz. And jazz, the white, modern, free jazz is one of Polish culture hallmarks. It is both perfect and recognized worldwide. There are however lots of jazz and other genius players and singers all around the world, and especially in the US. I hope it is acceptable that I don't post their masterpieces in the American - Polish Culture message board, Polish music folder. Today we have something very typically Polish, ironical and closed, nor at all aimed at the international audience. But that is real Polish modern music (the former of the two afore mentioned) plus real Polish lyrics.
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Post by pieter on Sept 28, 2006 7:57:05 GMT -7
I must confess thta I differentiate only two types of music. Good one and the rest of it Jazz is just a way of interpretation not a separate 'type' of music actually. At certain time I found there's no reason to say 'no' to jazz while I like classical, rock and pop. Of course jazz was created by the Afro-Americans, God bless them for that! All what we call pop music and rock music practically grew out, sprouted from the jazz seeds. Polish pop and rock are aimed and received by Poles mainly, since the majority of the Polish artists prefer to sing in thei mother tongue. And the lyrics in rock and pop are very important. It is not that important in jazz. And jazz, the white, modern, free jazz is one of Polish culture hallmarks. It is both perfect and recognized wordwide. There are however lots of jazz and other genius players and singers all around the word, and especially in the US. I hope it is acceptable not to post their masterpieces in the American - Polish Culture message board, Polish music folder. Today we have something very typically Polish, ironical and closed, nor at all aimed at the international audience. But that is real Polish modern music (the former of the two afore mentioned) plus real Polish lyrics. Wojtek, You are right about the two types of music, the " Good one" and the " rest of it". In that you can go differant directions, and ofcourse the first one is advisable. Surrounded by family, friends and colleages, who only want to listen to the first one, I am infleunced by that. But you know as I do that in many occasions in life your are forced to listen to " the rest of it", when you do your shopping, at a party, in a pub or discotheque (I like dancing). You hear that " rest of it" music everywhere. A friend of mine, who is musical (plays paino and composes) told me once (and I was very suprised at this statement, because he can be an extremely difficult person, because he never makes compromises to quality, and therefore he can be disliked by people in gahterings of friends), " In every branch of music you have quality and rubbish, so you may find Country & Western, German schlagers, or hardcore music terrible. Even in that branches of music you can find quality". Wikipedia describes Jazz in the first paragraph; " Jazz is an original American musical art form originating around the start of the 20th century in New Orleans, rooted in African American musical styles blended with Western music technique and theory. Jazz uses blue notes, syncopation, swing, call and response, polyrhythms, and improvisation." You are right that Jazz is just a way of interpretation, but I definately see it as separate 'type' of music with it's own tradition an branches. Look in the library or the music store, and you see a seperate Jazz department. Another quote from the encyclopedia; Wojtek, I grew up with the Errrol Gardner, Oscar Peterson and exellent Polish Jazz records of my parents. Often we drove to our Belgian mountain area (Ardens) vacation house, driving throught the South-Western region of Holland, Belgian Flanders (Antwerp), Belgian Wallon (the city Liege and then the mountains) at night, it was a long drive through heavy Imndustial zones in Belgium, and I remember hearing fast Modern jazz playing on the car radio (the trip was 250 km). We must have driven that road hundreds of times in all those years. Jazz was a part of my life if I wanted it or not, like French chançon, Calssical music, (Hungarian and Rumanian) Gypsy music and Russian folk music was part of our family life. As a child and teenager you rebell and listen to other music on your radio-cassette recorder in your own room. I remember in the late seventees that I liked Blondy, the Police, Madness, Kiss and Queen, and in the early eightees I became fond of The Police, David Bowie, Rod Steward, Stevie Wonder, Michael Jackson and finally Madonna. Later in the eightees when you started going out to pubs and discotheques, and exchanged music with friends I found out the Indie stuf, the alternative, you learned from older people (from my rowing club team), and after I left for Amsterdam, I ofcourse learned much more in that city. You are right that all what we call pop music and rock music practically grew out, sprouted from the jazz (and Blues) seeds. It is good that the Polish pop and rock is mainly sung in their mother tongue. I believe that the Power of National or local Pop/Rock music lies in the merging of the international tradition with the local folk music influences, local vocal traditions and the literature and the poetry of the country where the musicians are rooted. I wrote about Nederpop or Nederbeat (Dutch Pop and Rock), because I know about that more. That music is powerful, because it is loved and cherished by a Dutch and Flemish (and in some cases like the band BZN, also in South-Africa) audiences, who know the lyrics and sing at live perfomances with the band's singers. Yes, the lyrics in rock and pop are very important, but for a long time I was more focussed on the drums, electric guitars and bass, because I was dedicated to a sound, stile and rhythm. Later in became interested in the lyrics, and could see the link with other written texts. The Central-European " white", modern, free jazz, is one of Polish culture hallmarks, because it is part of a greater tradition and appreciated worldwide, yes. One of the characteristics of music, art and culture is that it crosses borders, and so the Polish jazz is spread by Polish diaspora people like my mother, and Polish jazz musicians, who play their music in Amsterdam, Arnhem, Berlin, Chicago and Warsaw & Prague for international audiences. Like their african-american and WASP brethern from the USA, who came to Western-Europe to play Jazz here, the Poles in their turn influence other Jazz players. That is how music and jazz goes. The very typically Polish, ironical and closed band, reminds me of Madness in the seventees, with elements of New wave and Punk in it. Is it Polish Underground, or is it generally played in Poland, and in the Polish charts? Thank you for taking us on a journey in Modern Polish music. Pieter
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Post by pieter on Sept 28, 2006 7:58:35 GMT -7
Blue noteIn jazz and blues, blue notes are notes sung or played at a lower pitch than those of the major scale for expressive purposes. Typically the alteration is less than a semitone, but this varies among performers. The blue notes correspond approximately to the flattened third, flattened fifth, and flattened seventh scale degrees, although they approximate non-equal tempered pitches found in African work songs; specifically, the flatted seventh may often be a justly tuned minor seventh. Blue notes are the most important notes in the blues scale. In its earliest manifestations, the flattened third, or mediant, and flattened seventh, or subtonic, were the main blue notes. Emphasis on the flattened fifth, or dominant, was an innovation in bebop in the 1940s. Blue notes are also prevalent in English folk music. ( Source: Wikipedia) Link: Quality Jazz record label; www.bluenote.com/
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bujno
Cosmopolitan
Posts: 648
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Post by bujno on Sept 30, 2006 12:51:58 GMT -7
Pieter it is very good you grew up listening to Errol Gradner, Oscar Peterson and Polish jazz records. It is important to have contact with the full spectrum artists and to differentiate them solely in corcondance how they perform not where they come from. I too like folk music, every year more. I when I was young I didn’t like like folk music at all. Now I recognize how strong are the ties between folk and ‘modern’ music. I understand that you are much more cosmopolitan then I am, as I feel first of all Polish, then European, that's how a feel. And this must be somehow reflected in my musical tastes too. I or my ears, much more prefer the sounds that must have been embeded in my mind in previous generations. Don’t laugh at me here please, just laugh with me, as there’s a strong theory of mem, the equivalent of gen. So my taste in folk music is probably very narrow and not at all cosmopolitan. I like cosmopolitan people, as they are good people, idealistic, open and friendly. What I am afraid of is the cold blooded players who sometime use the banners of cosmoplitanism, panslavism, paneuropeanism, panjewism and so on, try to use the idealist for their selfish case. The direct way to the inner I are the folk sounds of some kinds of Slavic music as well as Jewish. I am not very fond of folk music from the Western Europe. Except perhaps the fado from Portugal and Spanish, Celtic and Irish folk music. Or maybe I just did not listen enough to the folk music of other peoples. Anyway, I am sure I don't like everything, as liking all is equal to being indifferent to all. I have never thought as deeply as you do about the Power of National or local Pop/Rock music. But I think that if there would be no local influences in modern music- there would be just one kind of pop and rock, the English/American one. The Central-European "white", modern, free jazz, is one of Polish culture hallmarks, because it is part of a greater tradition and appreciated worldwide, yes. You may probably be aware that jazz in Poland was sometime during the Stalinist years prohibited, as an ‘imperialist’ invention. So was bridge, and sock of colour. Since then we probably know that jazz is a part of a greater tradition. The band that reminded you Madness is KULT, one of the numerous artistic incarnations of our local celebrity, an ex-punk Kazik Staszewski. Yes the band is ‘mainstream’ and present in the charts
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Post by rdywenur on Sept 30, 2006 13:16:52 GMT -7
Hey I am learning something from you two (Peiter and Bujno) Blue note. I went to a jazz club in NYC that was named the Blue Note. (not sure if it is still open) Now I know where the name came from. I like jazz. Peiters preference is the old Jazz . I have a friend that listens mostly to only this music where my tastes were more to the newer what we call "smooth jazz" I do appreciate both though. I enjoyed your giants Bujno. Is it possible to purchase these here and if so where. (website ?)
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Post by rdywenur on Sept 30, 2006 13:19:54 GMT -7
Okay any techies in here. When I go to play the videos my media player stops and starts which interrupts my viewing and listening. Maybe just a adjustment to the player??? Who knows why that always happens.
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Post by rdywenur on Sept 30, 2006 14:43:08 GMT -7
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Post by bescheid on Sept 30, 2006 15:21:38 GMT -7
Boy, the Rolling Stones, yes At 1st I heard these guys, I could not believe it!! What neat music...And Mick Jagger was and still, the skinniest guy I have ever seen. And he still going strong, can you believe that.... I think it is a coin drop for either U-2 or Stones that make the music as to how I feel some times. Charles
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Post by pieter on Oct 1, 2006 4:23:50 GMT -7
Pieter it is very good you grew up listening to Errol Gradner, Oscar Peterson and Polish jazz records. It is important to have contact with the full spectrum artists and to differentiate them solely in corcondance how they perform not where they come from. I too like folk music, every year more. I when I was young I didn’t like like folk music at all. Now I recognize how strong are the ties between folk and ‘modern’ music. I understand that you are much more cosmopolitan then I am, as I feel first of all Polish, then European, that's how a feel. And this must be somehow reflected in my musical tastes too. I or my ears, much more prefer the sounds that must have been embeded in my mind in previous generations. Don’t laugh at me here please, just laugh with me, as there’s a strong theory of mem, the equivalent of gen. So my taste in folk music is probably very narrow and not at all cosmopolitan. I like cosmopolitan people, as they are good people, idealistic, open and friendly. What I am afraid of is the cold blooded players who sometime use the banners of cosmoplitanism, panslavism, paneuropeanism, panjewism and so on, try to use the idealist for their selfish case. The direct way to the inner I are the folk sounds of some kinds of Slavic music as well as Jewish. I am not very fond of folk music from the Western Europe. Except perhaps the fado from Portugal and Spanish, Celtic and Irish folk music. Or maybe I just did not listen enough to the folk music of other peoples. Anyway, I am sure I don't like everything, as liking all is equal to being indifferent to all. I have never thought as deeply as you do about the Power of National or local Pop/Rock music. But I think that if there would be no local influences in modern music- there would be just one kind of pop and rock, the English/American one. The Central-European "white", modern, free jazz, is one of Polish culture hallmarks, because it is part of a greater tradition and appreciated worldwide, yes. You may probably be aware that jazz in Poland was sometime during the Stalinist years prohibited, as an ‘imperialist’ invention. So was bridge, and sock of colour. Since then we probably know that jazz is a part of a greater tradition. The band that reminded you Madness is KULT, one of the numerous artistic incarnations of our local celebrity, an ex-punk Kazik Staszewski. Yes the band is ‘mainstream’ and present in the charts Wojtek, Jazz is a part of the Western- and Central European traditon too. Do you know that a lot of Afro-American American jazz musicians went to Europe in the fiftees, and got a good welcome here. Many of them liked the appreciation in Europe and the fact that here there was no segregation like in many parts of the USA where they played. They stayed, traveled and toured for years in Europe, London, Rome, Berlin, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Paris and Brussels. Many Europeans heard their music, and young musicians became infleunced by them. In Europe you had long distance radio stations like BBC world, Radio Luxemburg (my mothers favorite chanal when se lived in Warsaw in the fiftees and sixtees) and Radio Free Europe. I think many Poles learned Jazz music from that source, but also from travellers. I can understand that International Jazz, and Polish " Underground" Jazz was popular in Poland, because it was considered " Bourgeois", " Western", Capitalist/Imperialist (American) music. The Nazi's called it Entartete muzik (on a Nazi poster you saw the charicature of a Negro with Semitic look, to show that it was Negro-jewish music). The Stalinists feared Jazz, because Jazz has no borders,and does not stick to ideological dogma's like Social-realism, and Socialist peoples music. Yes, Wojtek it is important to have contact with the full spectrum artists and to differentiate them solely in corcondance how they perform not where they come from. You have exellent music today which is rooted in many continental and National tradtions. I like Modern electronic music like House, Techno, Jungle, Drum'n Bass and Electro, and they often combine Europen continental music tradition (Kraftwerk, Einsturzende Neubauten, Jean Michel Jarre, Italodisco, French and German pop), American Pop, Rock and Jazz, plus African and North-African (Rai-music) infleunces. In deeply abstract sound and drum soundscapes, elements of Arab, Turkish and Persian tunes & melodies come to the surface. Nobody talks about the historical references or national roots of this music, these movements and groups exists in many countries, and by touring around they are influenced and known in many countries. That is my Cosmopolitan connection to that music. Folk music, is the root of many other music, and new Folk music is constantly born, in November I will go to the Concert of the American singer Cat Power (http://www.catpowerthegreatest.com/ , Bob Dylan fan and a representative of Modern American Folk). She does remind me a litle bit of the Irish Folk-pop musicain Sineed O'Connor of the eightees; When I was young I didn’t like like folk music at all like you. Stubborn and undevelopped as I was I found it boring, slow and something of the (accustic) past. Funny is to see how Bob Dylans audience on a Folk festival was shocked when he suddenly came with electric guitars and played rock. Many of the Folk fans considered him a traitor, not seeing the funny or practical reality, that Dylans Folk roots deeply infleuence Rock musicians from Jimmy Hendricks to Cat Power. That are in my view the ties between folk and ‘modern’ music. In the same time rock musicians like Jazz and blues. I don't know if I am much more cosmopolitan then you are, because I am first of all Dutch (if I like it or not I am), then European, and then citizen of the world. These three identities in one are very important for me, being a human being. But the first one is most present. So that's how I feel too. Only I think this playes less a role in my musical tastes, because I was raised in an international musical environment (not in a Dutch one), and as a child and teenager English/American, German and French music already played a significant role. Hearing the Mathew or Johns passions of Bach in German on Dutch or Belgian tv or from records, hearin the Jazz Diva's, Diana Ross, Donna Summer, Areetha Franklin and Whitney Houston; I agree with you that we might in our ears, musical memory and tastes much more prefer the sounds that must have been embeded in our minds in previous generations. In my case it lies in a families European classic roots, but in the same time you have the taste you built yourself and created with your friends. My musical taste is deeply influenced byn the Western pop music of the lasty decades of the 20th century. Why should I laugh at you, when I take you serious. The only differance is that I am a layman in Polish Pop music and Polish music tradtion, because I am Western-European (rooted in a Western-European tradition). Like you said there is good and there is bad music, and that is the criteria for music, and if it is national or Cosmopolitan is of a minor importance in that perspective, because both kinds can be good or bad. (In the perspective of musicality and quality). I know more cosmopolitan people, than Nationalist people, so it is hard for me to judge. I agrew with you on the abuse of Cosmopolitanism for Selfsih interests. Both Slavic and Jewish Folk (Jiddish Klezmer) music have an inner civilization, of tradition, narrative story telling, musical developement and the preserverance of heritage and customs. Folk music from the Western Europe is less indepth than the Slavic one I think, because in some cases Dutch and German folk music are superficial and too sentimental (I don't like German and Dutch schlager at all). So we agree on that Wojtek. But I do like French chançon, serious Dutch language singers, some Dutch pop music and Wallon (french Belgian music like the one of Jacques Brell). Pieter
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