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Post by hollister on Jan 11, 2008 17:44:17 GMT -7
Mike, I gave the link to the article which spells out the legislation he worked on. To spell it out for you, according to the article he has accomplished the following: Working with Republican Sen. Tom Coburn of Oklahoma, Obama won enactment of a law creating a single, searchable database of all federal contracts, grants and loans. He also partnered with senior Indiana Republican Sen. Richard Lugar, the former chairman of the Foreign Relations panel, to sponsor legislation to strengthen international efforts to destroy conventional weapons, though it did not advance out of committee. Separately, Obama was lead sponsor of a bill to provide relief and promote democracy in the Democratic Republic of Congo, which was signed into law in December 2006. He introduced legislation in 2005 to require federal preparations for an avian flu pandemic, but it didn't advance. And he weighed in on another “good government” initiative during congressional debate on tougher lobbying disclosure standards, by backing the creation of an independent “Office of Public Integrity” that would investigate congressional ethics cases and receive and monitor financial disclosure reports required from members of Congress, officers and employees of Congress and lobbyists. The bid failed in 2006 due to opposition from members of the Senate Ethics Committee, who said it would politicize the panel. Another attempt to include it in the Democrats' ethics bill failed in early 2007. Obama’s tendency to focus on nonidelogical issues is pragmatic, because they tend not to have powerful enemies or, if they do, are shielded by solid support in both parties. But some of his initiatives have languished, either because he was a junior member of the Democratic caucus or because they encountered institutional resistance. One would have rewarded troubled school districts with extra federal help in exchange for deep changes. Though advocacy groups generally gave him positive marks for taking action, Obama’s absence from heated political battles makes it difficult to assess his effectiveness as a legislator. Still, he has passed one bill signed into law, making Biden's statement False. If you still question this it is a simple matter to look up his record via Legislative Affairs. thomas.loc.gov/ As far as what all the candidates propose, each has a campaign web site that outlines their proposals. They are interesting reading. I am NOT promoting Obama - I just want us all to be fair. I am pleased to see that he has worked "across the aisle" on a couple of these initiatives. I would be happier with a little deeper record of legislative efforts to draw a better picture of who he is. As we move further into the election process - there are going to be charges on all sides.
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Post by Jaga on Jan 11, 2008 22:22:26 GMT -7
Dear Piwo:
+++Your careful spin of the facts are misleading Jaga+++
Piwo, you are right, I should not just point out who was good (this is just an opinion) and who was a bad president but rely on facts rather. The truth is that during Clinton administration economy was good, he left a surplus. Just the opposite of the current administration + 2 unfinished wars.
You are not correct that I critize all Republicans. I actually like and support McCain in many policies. I also like Huckabee, although I do not support some of his policies.
+++One was the largest tax increase in America's history, and the other was the so called "omnibus crime bill". +++
here is about omnibus crime bill from Wikipedia:
In August 1993, Clinton signed the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993, which passed Congress without a single Republican vote. It raised taxes on the wealthiest 1.2% of taxpayers,[35] while cutting taxes for 15 million low-income families and making tax cuts available to 90% of small businesses.[36] Additionally, it mandated that the budget be balanced over a number of years, through the implementation of spending restraints.
++++ you are right that we are divisive when we point only that one party is good and another bad. We should not be partizan.
I will refer to other points in your mail later
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Post by Jaga on Jan 11, 2008 22:36:12 GMT -7
Piwo,
I am writing in parts because my computer connection is not good. So in order not to lose the information I need to write this way. I am glad that we can have a factual and reasonable discussions about issues rather than opinions.
+++In his first term, only two pieces of legislation were passed under his direction.+++
here what I found from Wikipedia about his first term:
1. Shortly after taking office, Clinton signed the Family and Medical Leave Act of 1993, which required large employers to allow their employees to take unpaid leave because of pregnancy or a serious medical condition 2. After much debate, Congress implemented the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy 3. Also in 1993, Clinton promoted free trade when he supported the North American Free Trade Agreement. The bill passed the house with 234 votes against 200 opposed (132 Republicans and 102 Democrats voting in favor, 156 Democrats, 43 Republicans, and 1 independent against). The treaty was then ratified by the Senate and signed into law by the President on 1 January 1994. So this bill was supported by more Republicans than Democrats. 4. Clinton signed the Brady Bill, which imposed a five-day waiting period on handgun purchases. He also expanded the Earned Income Tax Credit, a subsidy for low income workers ...
+++ He was owned by Chinese lobbyist, collected money in the White house in violation of federal law, lobbied fundraisers from the White house in violation of federal law, didn't turn in white water subpoenaed documents (oh, they were found by the maid in their bedroom the day after the statute of limitations expired), so forth and so on... Yeah, they were real good. Like the time he was filmed laughing his butt off at the funeral of his longtime friend Ron Browns funereal ++++
this is all an exaggeration. Many of these allegations were unfounded or eaggerated. I actually saw Rush Limbaugh showing Clinton laughing from something while going to the funeral. Are we all not behaving sometimes this way? It is better to laugh at the funeral than cause the death of 150 thousands people (this is the most precise count of dead in Iraq). Of course Clinton supported some lobbists but then.... how you can defend Bush, who is almost completely dependent on big corporations and lobbists.
+++You contend everything these people did was wonderful and ONLY criticize here anything Republicans do, yet you say it's the Republicans fault of divisiveness. Your conduct is JUST AS CULPABLE AS THE CONSERVATIVES, +++
Sure, I agree. We all do it sometimes. But I did not really say that ALL Republicans are bad. As I explained I like some. I just think, that this president is not a good president and 70% of Americans think the same way.
referring to hipocrizy - think about Gingrich and Limbaugh. Gingrich was leading the impeachment charges against Clinton having the affair with his future third wife.
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piwo
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Post by piwo on Jan 11, 2008 23:11:38 GMT -7
Once again Jaga.. You claim to be impartial, but ALL your criticisms are aimed at Republicans, NONE ever at Demcrats........... So, you are not the impartial soul you claim. We can go back and forth forever arguing points for and against, and all that will only demonstrate that there is DEEP division on how you view politicians and how I do. THAT has been the essence of my posts from the start. You imeadiately asses blame to one side, which is EXACTLY my point. It normally means that there are two sides that feel strongly, probably blindly, with no more moral justification or correctness then the other. As a conservative, I understand this, admit it and accept it as part of life. To you, it's a right wing conspiracy formed by FOX, Rush Limbaugh and others that get in the way of utopia. Hillary used the term Right wing conspiracy so much during her husbands term it was ridicuolous. Just like communsim: any lie can be accepted if repeated often enough. I feel the same about Dan Rather, Katie Curic and every other liberal talking head on TV. They are equally as biased, but since they talk your talk, they must be fine....
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Mary
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Post by Mary on Jan 11, 2008 23:21:36 GMT -7
Piwo, referring to hipocrizy - think about Gingrich and Limbaugh. Gingrich was leading the impeachment charges against Clinton having the affair with his future third wife. Jaga, You seem to have a thing for Republicans who may be "soiled" in your mind, but when it comes to the Clinton affairs, and there were many, (not just Monica L.) you turn a blind eye...... Why is that? Mary
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Post by valpomike on Jan 12, 2008 8:04:07 GMT -7
Piwo,
You go man, that and more.
Michael Dabrowski
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Post by valpomike on Jan 12, 2008 8:19:06 GMT -7
hollister,
So what you are saying is that Barback did nothing alone, without Republicans help. Even with there help, is this all he did, for all his time there? How many votes did he miss, or not vote for? Michael Dabrowski
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Post by Jaga on Jan 12, 2008 11:07:00 GMT -7
Jaga, You seem to have a thing for Republicans who may be "soiled" in your mind, but when it comes to the Clinton affairs, and there were many, (not just Monica L.) you turn a blind eye...... Why is that? Mary Mary, Jesus said, who did not commit any sinn - can hit first with the rock this woman. Nobody turned a blind eye into Clinton. This was not even an affair, they did not sleep together, the girl was doing everything to get the attention of this man. How can a person who had a real extra marital affair judge somebody who is even lesser guilty? Do you think it was fair what Gingrich did? Besides, Republicans is a part which claims to be morally higher than these liberals Democrats. ++++ As I said it was not even an affair. How many men would not react if women attack them with their sexuality?
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Mary
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Post by Mary on Jan 12, 2008 11:37:02 GMT -7
Jaga, You seem to have a thing for Republicans who may be "soiled" in your mind, but when it comes to the Clinton affairs, and there were many, (not just Monica L.) you turn a blind eye...... Why is that? Mary Mary, Jesus said, who did not commit any sinn - can hit first with the rock this woman. Nobody turned a blind eye into Clinton. This was not even an affair, they did not sleep together, the girl was doing everything to get the attention of this man. How can a person who had a real extra marital affair judge somebody who is even lesser guilty? Do you think it was fair what Gingrich did? Besides, Republicans is a part which claims to be morally higher than these liberals Democrats. ++++ As I said it was not even an affair. How many men would not react if women attack them with their sexuality? Jaga, You don't know your Bill Clinton history.....that's all I'm saying. Mary
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piwo
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Post by piwo on Jan 12, 2008 11:43:28 GMT -7
Republicans as a party do not claim as you say. Many who run as candidates for that party court the religious vote, but the party doesn't claim such a thing. It is once again, your Blind eye to the shortcomings of the Democrats and your insistence on acrimony toward Republicans that only again highlight my very point. You will continue this Democrat good guy Republican bad guy rhetoric your entire life, because you cannot get over your precises. You open up threads as you have in the past, and do so now, criticizing conservatives, "throwing the first stone" whenever you can because it's what you do. Your insistence on having the last word on all matters, changing the subject to point a finger at something or someone else is tiresome to all except your fellow faithful. It's the reason there is so little true conversation on this forum, more "complain" threads that are always aimed at 'the other guy", and why those of opposing points of view for the most point just don't post. What's the point in doing so?
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Post by Jaga on Jan 12, 2008 15:45:21 GMT -7
Jaga, You don't know your Bill Clinton history.....that's all I'm saying. Mary Mary, Rush Limbaugh which represent conservative values was married 3 times, was divorced three times, was caught on the airport with Viagra. At least Bill Clinton was married once. Mass media were crazy about Lewinsky story. Are you sure that Clinton had or has more girlfriends than Rush Limbaugh does? As I said before Rush Limbaugh represents conservative media. By the way, Guliani had an affair with his third wife after 9-11, he also represent conservative values.
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Post by Jaga on Jan 12, 2008 15:52:52 GMT -7
Once again Jaga.. You claim to be impartial, but ALL your criticisms are aimed at Republicans, NONE ever at Demcrats........... Piwo, you did not look at any of my arguments. you were arguing that during the 1st term of Clinton, Clinton did two things which passed withough Republican votes. I quoted Wikipedia saying that from Free Trade Agreement more Republicans voted in support than Democrats. You did not even look at any of the facts I presented. I am not trying to say that Democrats are angels and all Republicans are bad. I even pointed out that I like some of the republican candidates!!!! I am saying that I think Clinton was a good president. Economy was good, there was a budget surplus. We did not have the unnecessary wars like we have now. I do not care whether Kerry or Bush were better students. Kerry did not want to show its grade records, Bush did not want to show its military record. What is worse? ++++ You are claiming that I am biased. Please, read the arguments. I am only saying pres. Clinton left the economy in good shape. His approval ratings was much higher than pres. Bush's. You are saying I am biased and pro-Democrats. I can say the same about you. You seem to be biased against Democrats. +++++++++ You will continue this Democrat good guy Republican bad guy rhetoric your entire life, because you cannot get over your precises.I was quoting the facts about Clinton presidency. You turned blind eye into the facts I presented. Pres. Clinton had low score from his personal life but high score from his performance as a president, according to the public; pres. Bush is seen just the opposite (good family guy but a bad president). Please, respond to my arguments instead of accusing me personally that I am biased.
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Post by valpomike on Jan 12, 2008 16:10:50 GMT -7
Piwo,
Go get her, tell her the truth. You have the facts, give them to her. She does not hear any thing good of the Republican's. But than most Polish are Democrat, since there parents were, and they don't want to check into this.
Michael Dabrowski
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Post by hollister on Jan 12, 2008 17:49:22 GMT -7
This is surprising Newt Gingrich’s on-again, off-again adulation of Hillary Rodham Clinton appears to be back on. The leader of the 1994 Republican revolution — who as House speaker in the mid 1990s clashed fiercely with then-first lady Clinton and her husband, Bill Clinton — attributed her surprise victory in New Hampshire to the Democratic presidential candidate’s courage, integrity and openness. After Clinton’s third-place finish in the Jan. 3 Iowa Democratic caucuses, “it would have been very easy for her to have broken, accepted defeat,” Gingrich said in a weekly podcast e-mailed to supporters. “Instead, starting on Saturday night, she fought back with greater and greater intensity, and she opened herself up," Gingrich went on. “She talked as a person, without all the protection, without all the discipline, and she became more and more appealing.” Gingrich said that shift demonstrated “the courage to learn” and enabled the New York senator to grow “in the space of three or four days to a much more attractive, much more aggressive and much more appealing candidate.” complete article at www.politico.com/news/stories/0108/7851.html
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Mary
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Post by Mary on Jan 12, 2008 18:07:22 GMT -7
Jaga, You don't know your Bill Clinton history.....that's all I'm saying. Mary Mary, Rush Limbaugh which represent conservative values was married 3 times, was divorced three times, was caught on the airport with Viagra. At least Bill Clinton was married once. Mass media were crazy about Lewinsky story. Are you sure that Clinton had or has more girlfriends than Rush Limbaugh does? As I said before Rush Limbaugh represents conservative media. By the way, Guliani had an affair with his third wife after 9-11, he also represent conservative values. Bonking Bill Clinton By Ted Sampley June/July/August 1997 The London Times recently wrote that President Bill Clinton "may forever be known as Bonking Bill, the president who could not keep his trousers on." There is certainly plenty of evidence to prove the Times right. Even before elected, candidate Clinton was dodging a barrage of accusations, ranging from sexual mischief, fathering an illegitimate child of a prostitute and sexual harassment. One former Clinton insider described Clinton as " very lustful and bold, especially when he was around women he perceived might be receptive to his overtures." Arkansas State troopers, who were required to manage much of Clinton's schedule while governor, claim he often sent them to ask women to meet him. The troopers say there are many women with whom "Bonking Bill" had affairs during that time. They report such antics as his sneaking out while his wife Hillary was asleep or inviting women in for "personal tours of the governor 's mansion" when she was working at the Rose law firm. Some of the women have talked openly about their affairs with Clinton but most of their spicy confessions have been ignored by the press. Bobbie Ann Williams, a streetwalker in Little Rock claims Clinton used to pick her up while he was out jogging and pay her for sex behind hedges or in the back seat of his official limousine. A Little Rock lawyer, Polly Kyle, wrote a fictionalized account based on an actual affair she claims to have had with Clinton, which has yet to find a publisher. She says she and Clinton had been lovers since they were at school in Hot Springs. Susan McDougal, still in jail for refusing to testify to a grand jury investigating the Whitewater scandal, is said to have been "Bonking Bill's" lover. Even in jail, she remains devoted to Clinton and unwilling to talk about it. Susan's husband, Jim, said recently that he knew she had an affair with Clinton. "How should I say this? They were intimate, there was no doubt in my mind." Susan said it was not so. "I'm a small-town girl, a Southern Baptist. I wouldn't do it." The McDougals were partners in the doomed Whitewater property deal with the Clintons. Clinton lawyers and spin doctors until recently have managed to deflect, dilute and trivialize the steamy accusations, giving Clinton enough benefit of the doubt from the public that they reelected him. But the recent Paula Jones Supreme Court decision has got his lawyers and spin doctors worried. The Supreme Court had voted unanimously to reject Clinton's plea that a president is immune from private lawsuits while in office and therefore Jones should not be allowed to sue the president. Jones alleges that a state trooper invited her to meet the then Governor Clinton at the Excelsior hotel in Little Rock where she was manning a conference registration table. She went to the room thinking Clinton would offer her a job, she said. Instead, she claims "Bonking Bill" fondled her, dropped his trousers and asked her for oral sex. Ever since Paula Jones first made her allegations in 1994, Clinton loyalists have campaigned to smear and discredit her. Hatchet man James Carville, Clinton crusader in chief, once sneered: "Drag $100 through a trailer park and there's no telling what you'll find." In other words, according to Carville, Jones should not be believed because she is from the working class and even if something did happen in that Arkansas hotel room on May 8, 1991, well, she was that kind of girl and got the treatment she deserved. Jones says she can prove Clinton dropped his drawers in front of her because of the "distinguishing characteristics" of "Bonking Bill's" genitalia. Some speculate Jones is referring to a bald eagle tattooed in his crotch area. Others claim "Bonking Bill" is branded with a mole "the size of a quarter" on his upper thigh. Jones' suit demands $700,000 in damages and an apology from Clinton, who until recently had claimed no recollection of meeting Jones, but did not dispute that they had met. Because the statute of limitations for state court had expired by the time Jones' name was being flashed as one of Clinton's women, Jones filed a sexual harassment suit against Clinton in federal court to "defend her honor." Jones alleges that because Clinton was acting in an official capacity when he sexually harassed her, he had deprived her of her civil rights. Witnesses that Jones plans to call include Gennifer Flowers, who had a 12-year affair with Clinton and has not been bashful about telling all about it, selling taped phone conversations and revealing intimate secrets of their sex sessions, such as their pet names for each other's private parts. "We made love everywhere, on the floor, in the kitchen, on the cabinet, the sink I called his testicles 'the boys' and he called my breasts 'the girls'." "Bonking Bill's" lawyers are facing a catch-22 dilemma, if they try to keep the case out of court until after the president leaves office, it will put an enormous strain on his life as a private citizen. If Jones' attorneys are allowed to force Clinton to take the stand while he is still president and testify about his alleged sexual mischief and the characteristics of his "genitalia," all credibility he has as president of the United States will almost certainly be destroyed. Because Clinton is commander of chief of the military, he is already catching some flak being accused of a double standard because of the numerous high profile sexual harassment cases involving the officers and enlisted in the military. Rather than face the prospect of so many women coming forward to talk in open court about sex with the president, "Bonking Bill" may be forced to beat a hasty retreat and settle out of court with Paula Jones.
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