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Post by leslie on Apr 29, 2006 3:56:54 GMT -7
You may be interested to hear that yesterday evening on BBC2 television, a 'Timewatch' programme entitled 'Battle of Warsaw', which for 50 minutes described, with accuracy and absence of bias the 1944 Warsaw Rising. There were a number of survivors who were interviewed and gave their personal accounts of what happened, including one by a German who was a 19-year old soldier there. No punches were held back and blames were fairly and squarely laid as relevant on the back of the British (Churchill) through lack of active support; the Americans (Roosevelt) for similar; and Stalin and the Red Army for their intentions to Poland and their absolute lack of support while the Rising was raging and failing with thousands of Polish patriots dead. The Yalta Conference was mentioned at which there was the statement about agreement there with Stalin for the Reds to take over Poland - one omission that I felt was that this was initially a private agreement between Roosevelt and Stalin, with Churchill being eventually told (and agreeing) about it. I make no bones about that at the end there were tears streaming down my cheeks. If you want to read about the programme, got to www.bbc.co.uk/history/programmes/timewatch/diary_warsaw_print.htmlAnother interesting source about this event ls www.warsawuprising.com/timeline.htmlLeslie |
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Post by sciwriter on Apr 29, 2006 10:45:08 GMT -7
Leslie, interesting material. Thanks. I can't connect to link #2. Carl
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Post by leslie on Apr 29, 2006 11:05:22 GMT -7
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Post by hollister on Apr 29, 2006 11:16:13 GMT -7
Actually this has been shown on the History Channel a couple of times - I remember searching through the BBC site after watching it. CNN also has a good special on the Uprising - I actually bought a copy of the show.
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Post by leslie on Apr 29, 2006 11:41:56 GMT -7
Chris (Holly) You know more about British TV than I do, and I'm here!!!!!  Leslie |
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Post by hollister on Apr 29, 2006 12:39:59 GMT -7
Oh Leslie!
I didn't mean to come off sounding like a smart dupa!
I guess all those years of Monty Python, Fawlty Towers and Dr. Who did add up to something after all!
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Post by leslie on Apr 30, 2006 1:43:38 GMT -7
Chris (Holly) I fear that I am getting a reputation for being misunderstood! What I said about your knowledge was a major compliment  I think you are smart, but definitely not a smart dupa!!! Leslie |
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Post by rdywenur on Apr 30, 2006 4:24:21 GMT -7
Seeeee?  ? ........as great as the Internet may be there is nothing like eye to eye contact and body language. The written word on the net will never compare. Leslie and Holly....thanks for the postings. I checked out the links when first posted and read the article. Now that Holly mentions History channel I'm wondering if I did see it or had made a mental note to watch it and missed it. |
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Post by gardenmoma on Apr 30, 2006 22:52:56 GMT -7
This program, or something very similar, was aired on the History channel.
In his "retirement" my husband is reading and watching a lot of history "stuff." We usually watch something on the History channel as we eat lunch and then talk about it.
GM
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Post by pieter on May 6, 2006 4:04:37 GMT -7
Leslie, I posted about this program too, jagahost.proboards79.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1146332561For me the Warsaw uprising is always a personal thing, because my grandparents were in the middle of it and survived it. it is good that the subject got attention of the BBC, the History Channel and CNN. In the Netherlands and much parts of Western-Europe this is just unknown, like also many new generations do not know Poles helped to free their countries as Western allies. It is sad that there is often only bad news about present day Poland and Polish workers comming to Western-Europe, but very, little attention to the recent past, and very little gratitude! |
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Post by leslie on May 6, 2006 4:34:28 GMT -7
Pieter
I was very pleased to read that your grandparents survived the Warszawa Rising - it must have been an absolutely terrible experience and anything that I can do to spread news about this event in the UK (and USA) I try to do so. As I have commented before, I believe the Poles were treated very shabbily in several ways by the UK during WWII and the USA through Roosevelt, has even less to be proud of (secrets between Allies at Yalta), but obviously the principal villain of the piece was Stalin, however much there are attempts starting to whitewash him - annexation of Poland after the war; Katyn; failure to help the Rising by simple, direct intervention and also making airfields available to Ally aircraft etc etc.
Always good to read your postings
Leslie
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Post by pieter on May 6, 2006 9:21:39 GMT -7
Yes,
It was a terrible experiance in a horrible time of the history of mankind, that dark five years.
It is hard for me to judge Churchill and Roosevelt 62 years after the event.
As being raised by a Dutch father who saw these two leaders as his hero's (see the differance
between people in Western-Europe and Central-Europe in their views), I have an ambivallent
feeling about this. Without the powerful leader Chruchill the Second world war would be lost
for sure. But more important if Roosevelt would not have supported the Brits, the Brittish
and Russians would never have conquered Nazi Germany, the American supplies to both
the East (SovjetUnion) and West (GB) made the counterattack and final Victory over
the Third Reich possible. Unfortunately in the Geopolitical game of the Big Three Poland
was not important enough for the Western-allies to stand firm in their unconditional
support and defense of an Independant, souvereign, Free and democratic Poland.
I don't know if Poland could have been saved if the Americans and Brits would have
demanded a "Free Poland", and would have stood firmly behind that.
Would the Russians have backed off? The Russians "theritory" began in Berlin.
Would there have been a war between the Western allies and the Sovjets if the
Brits and Americans would have demanded an independant Poland?
Historically it was a missed opportunity for the Brits and Americans to back their
allies of the Western front, the Poles, who contributed greatly in the in the
recovery of Western-Europe. Many of the men must have felt betrayed,
"that they fought for the liberation of others, but weren't freed themselves'.
The biggest cruelty was the treatment of soldiers of the Western front who
returned to their homeland and were treated like traitors, like their
brothers of the AK. I am inbetween a Duch and a Polish point of view.
I think Winston Churchill was a great leader, who made great mistakes
at the end of the war. And he was not alone.(gen. Montgommery)
Pieter
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Post by sciwriter on May 9, 2006 12:53:19 GMT -7
All Polish resistance fighters were heroes. God bless them. Carl
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Post by jimpres on May 10, 2006 7:01:12 GMT -7
Carl, ditto Jim
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I think you are smart, but definitely not a smart dupa!!!
? ........as great as the Internet may be there is nothing like eye to eye contact and body language. The written word on the net will never compare. 
