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Post by pieter on Sept 27, 2008 15:13:16 GMT -7
Birth of a Bilingual Newspaper on the German-Dutch Border
By Annette Toonen
A regional cross-border newspaper for communities living near the Dutch-German border illustrates how relations between the populations have improved. The Schengen agreement has helped change the groups' attitudes toward one another.
The first issue of Buren (Neighbors) has just landed on the doormats of 400,000 residents in the region around Enschede on the Dutch-German border. The special collector’s item, as the paper’s editorial identifies itself, is a combined effort by the Dutch regional newspaper Twentsche Courant Tubantia, and the German titles Westfälische Nachrichten and Grafschafter Nachrichten.
Journalists from all three newspapers double as translators for each other’s articles in Buren, which is published in both Dutch and German editions. The new paper was launched to celebrate 50 years of collaboration between the border communities in the area.
Close Relationships
The stories focus on the close relationships that have developed between the Dutch and the Germans over the years. “We've come up with some remarkable statistics,” says Jan Haverkate, one of the Dutch journalists working on the project.
“To give you some examples: 1,600 Dutch-German couples get married every year." said Haverkate. "And how many Germans go to Enschede to study? Some 3,000 a year. And 30,000 Dutch people live on the German side of the Euro-region border while 40,000 Germans have homes on this side. And 160,000 Dutch people use Munster airport every year.”
These are impressive numbers, says Haverkate. “We haven’t done any in-depth research but I think I can safely say that ever since the Schengen agreement [on open borders], the integration process has accelerated considerably. And it won’t stop here.”
Attitudes are changing. Buren journalists interviewed a Dutch woman who married a German. “Her father wanted to take her passport away when she told him but then reconciled himself to the fact,” says Martin Borck, a journalist with Westfälische Nachrichten. Now, mixed marriages are common place.
Prejudice Disappearing
During the 1990s, researchers found there was still widespread prejudice among young Dutch people towards their German counterparts -- given that the Netherlands was occupied by the Nazis during World War II. This was not the case in the border region.
“The University of Munster did its own research,” Borck says, “and it turned out that youngsters here were much more open-minded about each other.”
Cultural differences are disappearing too, says Haverkate. “The popular German disco Zak in Uelsen, just across the border, used to organize Dutch evenings -- the Germans were usually a little slower than the Dutch at getting into a party mood. But now the two groups party together.”
“Germans also go to Dutch schools. If you live in Ahaus it makes sense to go to the nearby University of Twente or Saxion College. The students speak Dutch. It’s one of the subjects on the curriculum in German schools.”
Borck is optimistic about the future. “The European spirit is really taking hold here. The introduction of the euro helped, of course. The Second World War has been a great influence on how people feel, but the war ended 63 years ago. It will never be forgotten but it’s slowly fading into the background.”
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Post by pieter on Sept 27, 2008 15:16:41 GMT -7
Would a Polish-German border magazine, Wspólnota (Gemeinschaft), be possible, selling thousands of copies on both sides of the border?
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Post by Jaga on Sept 27, 2008 18:39:39 GMT -7
Would a Polish-German border magazine, Wspólnota ( Gemeinschaft), be possible, selling thousands of copies on both sides of the border? I think, the problem is that the original German and Silesian population does not exist in Polish Western boarder and it was replaced by the resettlers from the East. This newspaper could be possible in the Upper Silesia and Katowice region. There is not any Polish minority region in Eastern Germany also. They have Slavs there, but these Slavs are not Poles. Their culture is now endangered after German unification since many from the youth left to Western Germany to find a better work. |
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Post by tuftabis on Sept 29, 2008 0:44:39 GMT -7
Would a Polish-German border magazine, Wspólnota ( Gemeinschaft), be possible, selling thousands of copies on both sides of the border? Hi Pieter. I don't know if a daily newspaper would be possible, but we have some bilingual Polish-German magazines. The best known is a quarterly 'Dialog'. You can access the contens online in Polish www.dialogonline.org/ausgabe8200_pl.htmlor in German www.dialogonline.org/ausgabe8200.htmlThe examples of recent articles translated into English - Neighbours in the East - Are Belarus and Ukraine closer to Moscow or Brussels? Polish-German relations under Merkel's and Tusk's lead Polish families settle in Eastern Germany The paper edition is on excellent paper and with graphic of high quality. This publication is not aimed at the minorities as a first target group, it aims wider. Polish minority is dispersed throughout Germany, so if you mean border literally then I guess it would be difficult to win a group of steady readers maintaining the sell results at the significant level. Even if we take into consideration that the number of Polish inhabitants in the city of Berlin is about 200,000 and growing, and that Berlin is just 70 km away from Poland. Poles or Germans of Polish descent living in Germany are numerous and have their problems, about which you can read here in article neutrally presenting the area of existing conflict. The core one is that in contrast to many other groups of non-German inhabitants, the Polish group in Germany does not have a legal minority status. www.ruf.rice.edu/~sarmatia/401/212schlott.htmlAlso we have a Polish-German journalist award, but this is hardly know by the wider public. in Polish www.polsko-niemiecka-nagroda-dziennikarska.pl/subpage.php?category_id=164in German www.deutsch-polnischer-journalistenpreis.de/subpage.php?article_id=181 |
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Post by tuftabis on Sept 29, 2008 0:58:22 GMT -7
One more point. Are you sure the newspaper in sold in the border regions of Holland and Germany, or is it a give-away newspaper as suggests this phrase - The first issue of Buren ( Neighbors) has just landed on the doormats of 400,000 residents in the region around Enschede on the Dutch-German border. If the latter is the case, and the magazine wouldn't need to have a goal of a business enterprsie, then the answer would naturally be - yes, such magazine would be possible in Polish-German bordering regions. |
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Post by karl on Sept 29, 2008 7:27:23 GMT -7
Would a Polish-German border magazine, Wspólnota ( Gemeinschaft), be possible, selling thousands of copies on both sides of the border? Pieter For some how of reason, I had missed your presentation of new publications. Of your question of inquiry of potential sales of the new Polish/German magazine. Just of a personal opinion: Rather be of both or either Polish/German folk to show interest and purchase this new magazine is academic until the magazine is placed on shelves for purchase. It is then to the public to decide rather they enjoy to read, or not to read. For it is still of both entertainment and informative, which in self, is a very risky business. If perhaps a suggestion would be of welcome, then my suggestion would be of not to limit these publications for only of the border areas {Poland and German}, for it is much wise to disclose of high population areas of your target groups,then place as a test, the new publications for that segment of population. In-as-much to any prejudice of people of both Polish and German, again a personal opinion: If those with prejudice, then may it be so, they will then live with it and to leave the remainder of us alone.. It is interesting of the new publications between Dutch and German. But not so strange for our North Low lands, as so close to the Dutch border. In-as-so, will go similar interest. If so two people rather of their nationality matters not, for if they truly love one-another, then so be it, they will marry, for love always finds a way, it may not be stopped.. The North/West low lands are fishing and farm lands with still the old transport channels in good condition as of as similar that of: Ostgroßefehn/Großefehn or the Ems-Jad-Kan. For this is the Ostfriesische area and similar of Aurich and/or Emden will be many people of Dutch origin and or nationals living and working. It was/is not un-usual for even of Cuxhaven of Dutch and French people and of course those of Dänemark. As an additional interest, I see of Spiegel on-line has expanded: www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,578333,00.html Karl {you have formerly known my self as Charles} |
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Post by pieter on Sept 29, 2008 13:36:02 GMT -7
Karl, First of all both German and Dutch are Germanistic languages spoken by people who share a North-European culture, political and social-economical system and way of life. Even when there are differances between the Germans and Dutch. In the West there has been a proces of unification by the European Union, Erasmus exchange project. For me as a Dutchman it is easier to understand German as first foreign language than for instance French, Danish, Polish or English, because some words and expressions are simular. From another point of view sometimes a language which is closer to you is more difficult than a language which is more distant. German can be complicated for the Dutch, because of it's complicated grammar and because simular words often have differant or opposite meanings. An example: Sea = Meer in German and Zee in Dutch. Lake = See in German and Meer in Dutch. Through the centuries and by the development of Nation states and borders, Dutch and German were driven apart. Dutch got influence from French in the South, Latin from Rome and English from the West. In the North of the Netherlands, Friesland and the North-West of Germany Ostfriesland the people speak the same language Frisian. The Dutch Frisia and German East-Frisia are separated by the Dutch Saxon province and people of Groningen. An old Frisian saying is as such: F ryslân boppe, Grinslân yn'e groppe! which means Frisia above, Groningen below, giving expression to old rivalry, because the Frisian lands were devided by the Saxons. For centuries the Frisians battled with the Holland people below them. Actually in the North of Germany in western portions of the German state of Lower Saxony, the southernmost part of Denmark and in the northeast corner of the Netherlands West Low German (also known as Low Saxon) is a group of Low German dialects spoken. Together with East Low German it forms Low German. So many people in the Saxon Dutch provinces in the (Middle) East and North-East, Gelderland (my province with two million people), Overijssel (1,113,529), Drenthe (484,481) and Groningen (574,042) speak a Low Saxon dialects that are very near to German. For instance a technician at my former job spoke a regional dialect, and sometimes he went to the local Bakery to buy his lunch. In Dutch you will say. Ik ga naar de bakker (I am off to the bakery). This guy said in his dialect: Ik geht even na de bakker! (which is a mix of German and Dutch and typical East-Dutch saxonian). All along the Dutch-German border, Dutch and German people speak the same dialects, regional languages, and share cultures and faiths, weather it is Calvinism or Catholic. Three of my best (intimate friends) are of mixed Dutch-German descent and some others have German grandparents or family. Next to that a lot of (100%) Dutch people have German Family names like Schröder, Halberstadt, Schmitt, Janssen and etc. You have this to a lesser extend with mixed Dutch-French, Dutch-English and for instance Dutch-Polish or Dutch-Russian mixed marriages. German people easily assimilate in Holland and after a few years speak relatively fluent Dutch. Often they keep a light accent. Dutch people in Germany also assimilate in Germany if they are married with Germans or live, study and work in Germany. But often Dutch people speak German or English with a strong Dutch (coal) accent. Low Saxon (Niedersächsisch) or Plattdüütsch are closer to Dutch than to German. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisiapl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Język_dolnosaksoński |
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Post by pieter on Sept 29, 2008 13:56:17 GMT -7
It will be as you say, I have no doubt about that, because from Hanze time on Dutch and German craftsmen and traders spread across, North-Western, Central and Eastern Europe.
In the Netherlands we have a lot of people with French Huegenot (French Protestant) roots too, the Dutch people with French names. I already told you that a lot of Dutch people have German roots, one German parent or German family ( a grandparent).
Some people are the offspring of German soldiers and Dutch girls in the Second World war.
That often was a taboo subject, this fact hidden for decades, because the soldier (father) left and never returned. From the other side there were many people who have a Canadian, American, British or Polish father, and never knew there father.
As the Second World war is farther away and new German generations grow older, the relationship between Germans and their neighbours (Danes, French, Poles and Dutch)
become more normal. We know that we are devided by our languages, cultures and mental borders, but in the same time are more European than many generations before us.
Pieter
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Post by pieter on Sept 29, 2008 14:16:10 GMT -7
Would a Polish-German border magazine, Wspólnota ( Gemeinschaft), be possible, selling thousands of copies on both sides of the border? Hi Pieter. I don't know if a daily newspaper would be possible, but we have some bilingual Polish-German magazines. The best known is a quarterly 'Dialog'. You can access the contens online in Polish www.dialogonline.org/ausgabe8200_pl.htmlor in German www.dialogonline.org/ausgabe8200.htmlThe examples of recent articles translated into English - Neighbours in the East - Are Belarus and Ukraine closer to Moscow or Brussels? Polish-German relations under Merkel's and Tusk's lead Polish families settle in Eastern Germany The paper edition is on excellent paper and with graphic of high quality. This publication is not aimed at the minorities as a first target group, it aims wider. Polish minority is dispersed throughout Germany, so if you mean border literally then I guess it would be difficult to win a group of steady readers maintaining the sell results at the significant level. Even if we take into consideration that the number of Polish inhabitants in the city of Berlin is about 200,000 and growing, and that Berlin is just 70 km away from Poland. Poles or Germans of Polish descent living in Germany are numerous and have their problems, about which you can read here in article neutrally presenting the area of existing conflict. The core one is that in contrast to many other groups of non-German inhabitants, the Polish group in Germany does not have a legal minority status. www.ruf.rice.edu/~sarmatia/401/212schlott.htmlAlso we have a Polish-German journalist award, but this is hardly know by the wider public. in Polish www.polsko-niemiecka-nagroda-dziennikarska.pl/subpage.php?category_id=164in German www.deutsch-polnischer-journalistenpreis.de/subpage.php?article_id=181Tuftabis, There is a differance between the Dutch-German history and the Polish-German history. First of all we were only once occupied by our Eastern neighbours, and secondly the German Nazi occupation of the Netherlands were less brutal than the German Nazi occupation of the Slav Polish nation. The Poles had centuries of a troubled past with the Germans, while the Dutch had less to do with the Germans, because we had a bigger French and Spanish Habsburg influence from the South. Our first king was of German of descent, and therefor we sing in our Anthem The William: William of Nassau, scion
Of an old Germanic line,
I dedicate undying
Faith to this land of mine.
A prince Of Orange,
I am, undaunted ever free,
To the king of Spain I've granted
A lifelong loyalty.The Low lands could have been part of the German leage of Kingdoms, but instaid gained an independant position since the late middle ages. At the end of the Second World War the East of Poland was taken by the SovjetUnion and Poland took a part of Eastern-German Silesia. The fact that that former East-German land was Polonized was not forgotten by the German Heimatvertriebenen (descendants of the German people who had to leave, what is now West Poland) and many German politicians, historians, civilians and even intelligentsia. The Poles from their part remembered the brutal German occupation, which costed 3 million Catholic Poles their lives, next to 3 million Jewish Poles (total 6 million Poles). This makes a Polish-German newspaper difficult. Also, becuase many Poles living in the border region have East- Polish backgrounds, and therefor no german connection in their genes and culture. Jaga very rightly and correctly issued this in her statement and Karl also mentioned the ehtnic and cultural differances in his post. The Germans and Dutch are simply more connected, because they share Germanistic roots, and can understand eachother if they want and make an effort too. Unfortunately more youngsters speak English than German overhere, because we are very influenced by a dominant Anglo-American media and culture system. Pieter |
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Post by pieter on Sept 29, 2008 14:19:09 GMT -7
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Post by pieter on Sept 29, 2008 14:23:51 GMT -7
Tuftabis,
The Newspaper Buren - Nachbarn was deliverd to 400.000 readers of the German newspapers Westfälische Nachrichten, Grafschafter Nachrichten and the Dutch regional newspaper Twentsche Courant Tubantia, as a special edition which was added to their normal regular paper. I hope that this answered your question if it is a Newspaper where you have to pay for or which is free (gratis).
Pieter
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Post by tuftabis on Sept 29, 2008 23:36:52 GMT -7
Hi Pieter. I don't know if a daily newspaper would be possible, but we have some bilingual Polish-German magazines. The best known is a quarterly 'Dialog'. You can access the contens online in Polish www.dialogonline.org/ausgabe8200_pl.htmlor in German www.dialogonline.org/ausgabe8200.htmlThe examples of recent articles translated into English - Neighbours in the East - Are Belarus and Ukraine closer to Moscow or Brussels? Polish-German relations under Merkel's and Tusk's lead Polish families settle in Eastern Germany The paper edition is on excellent paper and with graphic of high quality. This publication is not aimed at the minorities as a first target group, it aims wider. Polish minority is dispersed throughout Germany, so if you mean border literally then I guess it would be difficult to win a group of steady readers maintaining the sell results at the significant level. Even if we take into consideration that the number of Polish inhabitants in the city of Berlin is about 200,000 and growing, and that Berlin is just 70 km away from Poland. Poles or Germans of Polish descent living in Germany are numerous and have their problems, about which you can read here in article neutrally presenting the area of existing conflict. The core one is that in contrast to many other groups of non-German inhabitants, the Polish group in Germany does not have a legal minority status. www.ruf.rice.edu/~sarmatia/401/212schlott.htmlAlso we have a Polish-German journalist award, but this is hardly know by the wider public. in Polish www.polsko-niemiecka-nagroda-dziennikarska.pl/subpage.php?category_id=164in German www.deutsch-polnischer-journalistenpreis.de/subpage.php?article_id=181Tuftabis, There is a differance between the Dutch-German history and the Polish-German history. First of all we were only once occupied by our Eastern neighbours, and secondly the German Nazi occupation of the Netherlands were less brutal than the German Nazi occupation of the Slav Polish nation. The Poles had centuries of a troubled past with the Germans, while the Dutch had less to do with the Germans, because we had a bigger French and Spanish Habsburg influence from the South. Our first king was of German of descent, and therefor we sing in our Anthem The William: William of Nassau, scion
Of an old Germanic line,
I dedicate undying
Faith to this land of mine.
A prince Of Orange,
I am, undaunted ever free,
To the king of Spain I've granted
A lifelong loyalty.The Low lands could have been part of the German leage of Kingdoms, but instaid gained an independant position since the late middle ages. At the end of the Second World War the East of Poland was taken by the SovjetUnion and Poland took a part of Eastern-German Silesia. The fact that that former East-German land was Polonized was not forgotten by the German Heimatvertriebenen (descendants of the German people who had to leave, what is now West Poland) and many German politicians, historians, civilians and even intelligentsia. The Poles from their part remembered the brutal German occupation, which costed 3 million Catholic Poles their lives, next to 3 million Jewish Poles (total 6 million Poles). This makes a Polish-German newspaper difficult. Also, becuase many Poles living in the border region have East- Polish backgrounds, and therefor no german connection in their genes and culture. Jaga very rightly and correctly issued this in her statement and Karl also mentioned the ehtnic and cultural differances in his post. The Germans and Dutch are simply more connected, because they share Germanistic roots, and can understand eachother if they want and make an effort too. Unfortunately more youngsters speak English than German overhere, because we are very influenced by a dominant Anglo-American media and culture system. Pieter Pieter, you seem to connect a success of a transborder Polish-German newspaper with the history of WWII and it's outcome. While I rather think a success of such a newspaper would be more connected how the present lives of bordering regions are intertwined. And they are intertwined immensly and each year more. The great politics is very far for Herr Schmidt sending his kid to a shop to buy rolls for breakfast in the bakery on the other side of the bridge - in Poland. And it is very far for Pani Kowalska, a doctor, waliking everyday through that bridge to work in the nearest hospital to where she lives – in Germany. |
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Post by tuftabis on Sept 29, 2008 23:42:22 GMT -7
Tuftabis, The Newspaper Buren - Nachbarn was deliverd to 400.000 readers of the German newspapers Westfälische Nachrichten, Grafschafter Nachrichten and the Dutch regional newspaper Twentsche Courant Tubantia, as a special edition which was added to their normal regular paper. I hope that this answered your question if it is a Newspaper where you have to pay for or which is free (gratis). Pieter Yes it answers that question. It seems the newspaper is free and circulated as a part of another newspaper. This scheme might as well reflect it's publication is not an answer to the population demand, but is a trial to create such a demand. Also the first page suggests it is not 'an ordinary newspaper'. |
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Post by pieter on Oct 4, 2008 12:16:12 GMT -7
Pieter, you seem to connect a success of a transborder Polish-German newspaper with the history of WWII and it's outcome. While I rather think a success of such a newspaper would be more connected how the present lives of bordering regions are intertwined. And they are intertwined immensly and each year more. The great politics is very far for Herr Schmidt sending his kid to a shop to buy rolls for breakfast in the bakery on the other side of the bridge - in Poland. And it is very far for Pani Kowalska, a doctor, waliking everyday through that bridge to work in the nearest hospital to where she lives – in Germany. Tuftabis, I am very glad about your answer, even if it is critical of my old fashionate (living in the past) second generation approach of crossing boarder issues. Because you are true. Poles and their country are part of the New (united) Europe in which pragmatic and moderate new generations look at their national interests, personal economical and cultural interests and regional roots and connections. In every borderregion of Europe you have economical traffic, neighbours buying goods on the other side of the border and therefor being connected to neighbouring people. In Poland you stil have a German minority and in Germany you have a larger Polish minority. I even read that East-Germany is low populated, and is attractive to some Polish businessmen/women and companies to invest in real estate and some companies. Ofcourse Germans have invested a lot in Poland. I saw the Volkswagen and Opel factories in Poland and the Warsaw branch of the Deutshe Bank. Next to Dutch farmers who resettle in Poland and Ukraine (next to Sweden and Canada), I also heard of German buying Polish land. I don't know if you have German farmers in Poland, but am curious if you have a lot of German landowners in Poland. Pieter |
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Post by tuftabis on Oct 6, 2008 11:54:22 GMT -7
Pieter, you seem to connect a success of a transborder Polish-German newspaper with the history of WWII and it's outcome. While I rather think a success of such a newspaper would be more connected how the present lives of bordering regions are intertwined. And they are intertwined immensly and each year more. The great politics is very far for Herr Schmidt sending his kid to a shop to buy rolls for breakfast in the bakery on the other side of the bridge - in Poland. And it is very far for Pani Kowalska, a doctor, waliking everyday through that bridge to work in the nearest hospital to where she lives – in Germany. Tuftabis, I am very glad about your answer, even if it is critical of my old fashionate (living in the past) second generation approach of crossing boarder issues. Because you are true. Poles and their country are part of the New (united) Europe in which pragmatic and moderate new generations look at their national interests, personal economical and cultural interests and regional roots and connections. In every borderregion of Europe you have economical traffic, neighbours buying goods on the other side of the border and therefor being connected to neighbouring people. In Poland you stil have a German minority and in Germany you have a larger Polish minority. I even read that East-Germany is low populated, and is attractive to some Polish businessmen/women and companies to invest in real estate and some companies. Ofcourse Germans have invested a lot in Poland. I saw the Volkswagen and Opel factories in Poland and the Warsaw branch of the Deutshe Bank. Next to Dutch farmers who resettle in Poland and Ukraine (next to Sweden and Canada), I also heard of German buying Polish land. I don't know if you have German farmers in Poland, but am curious if you have a lot of German landowners in Poland. Pieter Thank you Pieter, your fair stance is appreciated. German citizens are not allowed to buy Polish agricultural land land until 2012 if I recall correctly. They do however through Polish citizens. The amount of land bought is neglectable. As you've mentioned we do have however some Dutch farmers as well as the Swiss ones which are welcomed and garadually stop to be an exotic birds for the local farmers. The German industry is however entitled to buy land, is very much welcomed and indeed buys a lot of industrial lots. |
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