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Post by jimpres on Nov 5, 2008 10:17:27 GMT -7
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Post by kaima on Nov 5, 2008 13:31:10 GMT -7
Wow,
The first president of Polish background as well as the first Nigerian background president. That seems to be a Polish distinction that will be easily overlooked by the press!
We live in interesting times.
Kai
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Post by archivist on Dec 5, 2008 15:00:25 GMT -7
Jim and Kaima
Hold it right there; on your first link he goes back to the Plantagenet King Edward I so he was ours first and we want him back!
Neville
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Post by Drohojowski on Dec 10, 2008 3:45:10 GMT -7
Wow, The first president of Polish background as well as the first Nigerian background president. That seems to be a Polish distinction that will be easily overlooked by the press! We live in interesting times. Kai If descent from Piast monarchs is to be the measure of Polishness, Barack Obama will not be the first, but the 37th of the 44 presidents up to and including him with known Piast ancestry to take office. Each of John McCain, Sarah Palin, and Joe Biden also have identifiable Piast descents (and both McCain's and Palin's are actually the same as Obama's, i.e., through Edward I of England). |
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Post by Jaga on Dec 11, 2008 23:03:25 GMT -7
Jim,
since Obama is related to Cheney does it mean that both are of Polish descend???
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Post by jimpres on Dec 12, 2008 10:01:25 GMT -7
Jaga, I would hope not but I am not going to do the research........ ; ))
Jim
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Post by Drohojowski on Dec 14, 2008 2:27:40 GMT -7
Jim, since Obama is related to Cheney does it mean that both are of Polish descend??? No, their shared colonial American ancestry is of French Protestant origin. A significant number of Americans who are of colonial American descent can trace their ancestry to early kings of England and Scotland. These Americans' ancestors came to this country as wealthy early colonists with royal charters and grants of property and an awful lot of them died or were killed in the backbreaking founding of the new country. Many of those who did not die in the first two centuries have repeatedly married with other families of similar or otherwise distinguished and usually British origin. In some cases, of course, children of these families married outside of their social class and through such marriages, descendants of these families who have one or two early American ancestors of royal descent like Barack Obama, John McCain, Sarah Palin, and Dick Cheney came to be. Dick Cheney has one 17th century ancestor who was a descendant of 10th century English king, Ethelred II. Barack Obama, John McCain, and Sarah Palin each have one 17th century ancestor who was a descendant of 13th century English king, Edward I (Palin also has an entirely different descent from Henry III, the father of Edward I, as well). Edward I was a descendant of many early European dynasties including the early Piast kings of Poland (that is, Mieszko I, Boleslaw I, and Mieszko II). |
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Post by Drohojowski on Dec 14, 2008 4:19:47 GMT -7
Just for fun, here is the descent of both men from Mieszko I Piast. When their descents part ways, "O" represents Obama's line and "M" represents McCain's line.
Mieszko I of Poland;
1. his son, Boleslaw I, King of Poland;
2. his son, Mieszko II, King of Poland;
3. his son, Kazimierz I, Duke of Poland;
4. his son, Wladyslaw I, Duke of Poland;
5. his son, Boleslaw III, Duke of Poland;
6. his son, Wladyslaw II, Grand Duke of Poland;
7. his daughter, Ryksa, Duchess of Silesia [later, Queen Consort of Castile and Leon];
8. her daughter, Sancha, Infanta of Castile [later, Queen Consort of Aragon];
9. her son, Alfonso II, Count of Provence;
10. his son, Raimond-Berenger IV, Count of Provence;
11. his daughter, Eleanor [later, Queen Consort of England];
12. her son, Edward I, King of England;
O13. his daughter, Elizabeth, Princess of England;
M13. his daughter, Joan, Princess of England;
O14. her son, William Bohun, I Earl of Northampton;
M14. her daughter, Elizabeth Clare;
O15. his daughter, Elizabeth Bohun;
M15. her daughter, Elizabeth Verdon;
O16. her daughter, Elizabeth Fitzalan;
M16. her son, William Ferrers, III Baron Ferrers of Groby;
O17. her daughter, Joan Goushill;
M17. his son, Henry Ferrers, IV Baron Ferrers of Groby;
O18. her daughter, Catherine Stanley;
M18. his son, William Ferrers, V Baron Ferrers of Groby;
O19. her daughter, Dulcea Savage;
M19. his son, Thomas Ferrers, Knight of the Shire;
O20. her daughter, Maud Bold;
M20. his son, Henry Ferrers, Knight of the Shire;
O21. her daughter, Janet Gerard;
M21. his son, Edward Ferrers, Knight of the Shire;
O22. her son, William Eltonhead;
M22. his daughter, Elizabeth Ferrers;
O23. his son, Richard Eltonhead;
M23. her son, Griffith Hampden;
O24. his daughter, Martha Eltonhead [Colonial American];
M24. his daughter, Anne Hampden;
O25. her daughter, Eltonhead Conway;
M25. her son, Robert Thomas Waller;
O26. her daughter, Martha Thacker;
M26. his son, John Waller;
O27. her son, Edwin Hickman;
M27. his son, Robert Waller;
O28. his son, James Hickman;
M28. his daughter, Hannah Waller;
O29. his daughter, Susannah Hickman;
M29. her daughter, Ann Coddington [Colonial American];
O30. her daughter, Anne Browning;
M30. her son, Richard Fenner;
O31. her son, George Washington Overall;
M31. his daughter, Eliza Geddy Fenner;
O32. his daughter, Susan Clea Overall;
M32. her son, James Julius Vaulx;
O33. her daughter, Gabriella Clark;
M33. his daughter, Catherine Davey Vaulx;
O34. her daughter, Ruth Lucille Armour;
M34. her son, John Sidney McCain, Jr.;
O35. her son, Stanley Armour Dunham;
M35. his son, John Sidney McCain III [2008 Republican for U.S. President, lost]
O36. his daughter, Stanley Ann Dunham;
O37. her son, Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. [2008 Democrat for U.S. President, won]
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Post by freetobe on Dec 14, 2008 10:53:04 GMT -7
I don't believe it. If true, it really is a small world
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Post by Drohojowski on Dec 14, 2008 11:50:22 GMT -7
Well, it is true, actually. But consider this: If a person living 800 years ago had just two children that had children of their own (more than fair considering many families have had more than two children over the course of that time while some have had none -- it averages out) and then each descendant had just two children so that a new generation came along every 30 years (a fair average over the course of 800 years, I think), then the descendants would number as follows:
The person living 800 years ago (A.D. 1208)
1. two descendants (A.D. 1238)
2. four descendants (A.D. 1268)
3. eight descendants (A.D. 1298)
4. 16 descendants (A.D. 1328)
5. 32 descendants (A.D. 1358)
6. 64 descendants (A.D. 1388)
7. 128 descendants (A.D. 1418)
8. 256 descendants (A.D. 1448)
9. 512 descendants (A.D. 1478)
10. 1,024 descendants (A.D. 1508)
11. 2,048 descendants (A.D. 1538)
12. 4,096 descendants (A.D. 1568)
13. 8,192 descendants (A.D. 1598)
14. 16,384 descendants (A.D. 1628) -- American colonization began in earnest
15. 32,768 descendants (A.D. 1658)
16. 65,536 descendants (A.D. 1688)
17. 131,072 descendants (A.D. 1718)
18. 262,144 descendants (A.D. 1748)
19. 524,288 descendants (A.D. 1778) - foundation of the United States
20. 1,048,576 descendants (A.D. 1808)
21. 2,097,152 descendants (A.D. 1838)
22. 4,194,304 descendants (A.D. 1868)
23. 8,388,608 descendants (A.D. 1898)
24. 16,777,216 descendants (A.D. 1928)
25. 33,554,432 descendants (A.D. 1958)
26. 67,108,864 descendants (A.D. 1988)
More than sixty-seven million people would be a descendant of that person today.
the same is true working in reverse. Consider that you have two parents, and each of them had two parents (so that's four ancestors), then eight, then 16, then 32, and so forth all the way back up. in the year 1208 you would have had about sixty-seven million ancestors. Of course, there weren't that many people in most of the countries where your ancestors lived then, so we should consider the so-called "branch theory." That is, after so many generations, people have children with someone who shares part of their ancestry. That cuts their ancestry through that line in half. This happens an awful lot, which is why people don't have that many million of ancestors just 800 years ago.
Nonetheless, one can easily see how two men (Obama and McCain), both of largely colonial American and, by extension, Western European ancestry (you will, of course, recall that Obama is the son of a white American woman and a black non-American man -- therefore, we can say he is likely to have just as many colonial American and Western European ancestors as McCain because McCain and Obama's mother are of about the same generation) would share not just one, but many common ancestors. Their nearest common ancestor, in fact, lived just 250 years ago.
In conclusion, it's really not such a small world. In fact, with so many millions --even billions-- of people, it's really quite a big world. It's just that we have an awful lot of relatives out there.
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