Federalism or Force

[pieter]

www.ruf.rice.edu/~sarmatia/106/261rak.html

Historian Adam Zamoyski wrote the following:

Polish history was an early casualty of political propaganda. Russia and Prussia built their imperial structures with materials taken from the Polish edifice which they had dismantled. They realized that any attempt at rebuilding Poland would strike at the very foundations of their new power. They therefore found it imperative to make people forget there had ever been a Polish state which they had so indecorously pillaged. Two years after Russia, Prussia, and Austria had taken apart the Polish Commonwealth, on 26 January 1797, they signed a convention which was ‘to secure the three Powers in a real, actual, and unchangeable possession of the provinces which they had annexed.’ They added a secret article which stressed ‘the recognized necessity of abolishing everything which might recall the existrence of a Polish kingdom in face of the performed annihilation of this political body.’

In this spirit, the Prussians melted down the Polish crown jewels, the Austrians turned royal palaces into barracks, and the Russians grabbed everything they could lay their hands on and shipped it out. They destroyed books and documents on an industrial scale and rewrote history. . .the plan to occlude and rewrite Poland’s history has been so successful that many outside central Europe are unaware of Poland ever having been independent, let alone a major power.(10)

[jimpres]

Seems we (poles) have a problem getting our message out.
It would do most of well to read some Polish history and see how rich our heritage is.

[pieter]

jimpres said:

Seems we (poles) have a problem getting our message out.
It would do most of well to read some Polish history and see how rich our heritage is.

Right you are!

[bescheid]

jimpres said:

Seems we (poles) have a problem getting our message out.
It would do most of well to read some Polish history and see how rich our heritage is.

Jim

How well do I agree with you! Here in America,"Pacific North West". I simply just avoid the mention of word,"Prussian". For it is generally met with, Uhh?

To mention Polish, it is met with a smile, nod, or blank stare.

These people are Nordik, and a mention of North people, and boy the response is: Norwegian, in an eye blink, yes.

Mention the word: German, it is oh yah, the Nazis.

Some times, I just hate people

Charles

[pieter]

Then every 1 out of 5 Americans are Nazi, since 50 million American's have German roots.
Nordik is refered to all Northern-Europeans, and especially Scandinavians, of Germanistic
descent, so Germans, Anglo-saxons, Dutch, Flemish Belgians, the North of France,
Austria, Switzerland, parts of the North of Italy (the Blond Italians), Luxenburg,
Germany. The term is used by historians, in political (organisational, foundation level)
and far right (Neo-Nazi White Power cirlces).
Some Neo-Nazi idiots use the term Nordic for the White (Caucacian) race in general.

[bescheid]

pieter

You know more then I do of the German ratio. I had not even thought of even a ratio of 1 in every 5 with German roots. Interesting

The many folks in my area are nice people (as people go) and are working people. They (as people go) care for their families and look forward to the week ends. But, they have very little interest and primarily, no European ties. Their knowledge is fairly much confined to what it going on in Iraq and gasoline prices at the pump.

But, this does not mean they are stupid. For the most part, these people are very smart in other areas, and are very sociable and come together easily in times of crises or situations of common concern.

For the most part, it is much the same, but then, different in Canada. The European influence is very apparent. Vancouver is a city of the arts. It is very culture minded and with a very wide ethnic content, and a person knows immediately of prejudices and undesired behavior. It has not happened to my self, but, I have observed prejudice in action, and it works. There is a very large Indian (East Indian) population in Vancouver. It is not very well accepted for a white European to be have a close relationship between them. But, in most social interaction situations, it is just fine. Now this is the Western provinces of Alberta/British Columbia. The Eastern Provinces are most likely different.

The market square is the best location to simply sit with coffee and cake, just observe. The variations of languages and oriental tones is just mind confusion if a person tries to differentiate between the individual persons. It is just fun to escape from life for an hour or two.

In many respects, Canada (my words) is more free then the south in the US. With the local mores and stratification, it is easier for a stranger to know what is socially acceptable.

I once came close to having my head banged in a tavern in Nelson (BC) whilst just forgetting to remove my hat. It is a township supported by wood industrial firms. The folks are on the most part, hard working and just a bit rough on the edges, but, good people. Once I had determined in the tavern, it was my hat that was offensive to the drinker at the next table (the man had stood up on the table whilst shouting) I removed my hat, smiled and nodded in thanks. The mans wife asked that it would be much safer to sit at their table and so I did. It turned out to be a wonderful evening.

There is a large population mix of Russian and Ukrainian families in that area and of near by (40 Km) Castlegar. There are only a few German families in those areas.

In the US, the general consensus is to be polite even if it kills. People will look and then turn away. They are for the most part, too polite and as such, a person unawares of what is the problem, will continue to be ignorant, and then resentful for not being accepted.

Charles

[pieter]

Thanks for your update about America and Canada, I think that Northern-America is tougher on many
fields than Western-Europe, less social-security, more expensive healthcare, more lower wages.
From the other side I think that maybe America is a more social nation, because of it's politeness,
stict rules, a majority who shares christian or Monotheist vue's (also the countries jews and
Muslims fit in that monotheist faith of one god and the book).
I think that Europe, or the European Union is more devided than the USA.
It goes farther here than the differance between the blue; liberal and democratic states of
the West and East Coast, and Red; republican and conservative states in the Middle
and the South. Here you have language differances in one country, a big differance
between a Protestant North and a Catholic South (in the Netherlands and Germany).
Even if nearly everyone is secular (The Netherlands) the mentality is stil the same
in that parts of our countries. It is as if an old awareness of the old tribal past of
Europe is present, but not spoken out loudly.
The regional orientation of people (dialects, ties to the ground people live in,
many generations of memories), and the National pride in football, and national
achievements. The Dutch have their cheese, flowers, watertechnology
and Heineken, Shell and Unilever. The french have their wines, champagne,
cheeses and Gothic cathedrals. And every other European country has it's
language, dialects, regions, footballpatriotism, and national music (folksongs),
radio stations, television (state and commercial), press and websites in their
languages. People don't like other Europeans to mess or mock with their
culture or language. Ancient sensitivities and prejudices stil exists,
the French do something in a slapdash manner (to easy going), the Germans are to serieus,
stif, boring and gründlich, the Dutch go Dutch (want everything cheap, have no stile,
are rude and offend foreigners), The Poles are rude peasents and anti-semites and take
jobs from Western Europeans, The Belgians speak in a strange version of our language
and were/are seen as less develloped, the Scandinavians speak rediculous languages,
which mockingly people try to imitate in Knäckerböd language.
The Brits are stif upperlip, reserved, arrogant, imperialist chaps, or very rude, animal
like low class trash (comparable to the Worst American Anglo-Saxon redneck).
The Southerners are a sort of comical, temperamentful, exotic, fast speaking,
hot (spicy), sensual, people with an outside life (because it is warm in the
Mediterranian) with large families, much music and exellent food.
Russians are ex-commies, maffia guys, tennis ladies, athletes and astronauts.
The reality is differant ofcourse, but people rather stick to their old regional
and national cliché's. The Poles are the entrepreneurs of Europe, and travel
even more than the Dutch. The Flemish are better in Dutch than the Dutch
themselves, and beat the Dutch over and over again in language game
programs and grammer shows on Dutch and Flemish tv.
Germany is more multi-cultural than the past, has close ties to it's former
arch rival France (the shared German-French art chanal ARTE), and lot's of
other European countries. Berlin is the art capital of Europe, and more a
European city than a German city.
Helmut Newton siad that he loved the Berlin women he photographed
because their Slavic bonestructures.
The Berliners are a mix of Saxonian Germans, French Huegenots, Poles,
Russians, Dutch, Greeks, Turks, jews, Armenians, Brits and North-Americans.
It is a wonderful metropole, city of arts, commerce, culture, and a Trans
Europe express. It would be exiting if we managed to allow or transform
the European Muslim minority in European Muslims, like America managed
to do with it's muslims. In Berlin you have Palestinians and other Arabs
in Neuköln (Sonneallee), Turken in Kreuzberg, the German workers in
the East-Berlin workers neighbourhood, the yuppies, students, and
German Middle class in Berlin Mitte and West-Berlin subburbs.
And between the Berliner and Muslim Ausländer, you see the Poles,
Russians, other Europeans, jews, Africans, Indians and Asians.
The working classes and middle classes love their football, cars,
the European highways, working on their house, having their tools
and crafts (which is their main hobby), and the television shows,
Hollywood and National movies, and popular national schlagermuwsic.
Many of them watch the Tour de France, national, European and
world cup football. Football is a religion for the European masses.
There is a huge differance between rural areas and the cities and towns.
Educated and uneducated people of the same nationality, culture,
language live completely differant lives, and there is a gap between
native Europeans and foreign newcommers (even when they lived
here for generations). But in the same time people live, work,
party and grow together in their shared space.
Every ethnicity has it's own nationalism, and often the foreigners
are more nationalist than even their native neighbours.
But under the influence of the strong ethnic cultural identity of
the foreigners, the Europeans are going back to their roots too.
I think that is the cause of the European rightwing Populism,
and not xenophobia as is so often said.
I experianced extreme Turkish nationalism here in Arnhem
in the Netherlands, but never Dutch nationalism in such scale.
And you know what I don't care. The Turks may be proud of
their country, because they work hard here and cause no
major problems. Actually the Dutch like the Turkish Middle
class they benefit from (the bakers, the supermarkets and
the restaurants) and Turkey they enjoy in their holidays.
Other foreigners that cause problems (Maroccans and others)
they like less.

Pieter