|
Post by bescheid on Oct 24, 2006 19:42:29 GMT -7
Charles, Auf geschmack sind wir auf verschiedene Welten, und wurde ich vielleicht viel mehr Russischen Kultur mögen als Deutsche. Von Russischen Konstriktivismus, Volksmusic, Klassische Musik und Literatur. Ich wurde die Russen politisch und Wirtschaftlich nicht trauen, aber in Kulturellen bereich steht die Russische Kultur viel näher zür meiner Mutters Heimat. Das die meiste Polen nichts von Russland haben mochten oder die Russen nicht mogen, hat damit nichts zu tun. I was raised in a house with a Pan-European culture, with Dutch, Polish, Russian, German, Austrian, Czech and Italian music. My parents love to watch Russian Opera on their Southern (French) cultural chanal. They are totally Francophone, and so I was raised Francophone, with even the conviction of my parents that the French culture is superior to the Dutch and German culture. So my family was directed to the South, and I nearly grew up in the French part of Belgium. Very Napoleontic, the French and Italian cultures are the European culture, together with the Greek roots. Ofcourse I disagreed, because I was more focussed on the English and German cultures. I absolutely disagree with you about the Russian choirs, which I find phantastic, although I disagree with the content. My father, a staunch anti-Communist all his life, played the red army song on his accordeon in pubs in Antwerp, when he was a young man. Charles, from where I live it would be more logical to meet a German lady than a Russian lady, because I live in the Eastern part of my country, the border region, and there are very nice German girls and women here. But I have nothing against Russian or Polish women either. Slavian women can be very nice, charming, loyal, sophisticated, elegant, educated, refined, a joy in your life, humoristic, cultural, and Modern. Some German and Dutch women I find to masculine, superficial, radical feminist and Germanistic, if you know what I mean. I come from a country where there are a lot of nationalities, cultures, races, religions. Like in Brasil you have wonderful mixes of people, and I live in the Turkish & Kurd quarter of my city, where they are living together with the Dutch majority, African immigrants, Maroccan berbers, Iranians and Afghans. The reception lady in my radio station is Polish, and I am now listening to a mix of Greek, Turkish, Russian, Arab and Albanian music on my own radio (the evening program with world music). Pieter pieter Wie so zutreffend, wie so zutreffend. Aber, wir sind noch auf der gleichen Buches. Ihr Russisicher Anschluß ist im kulturellen Bereich. Meins ist von einer persönlichen Natur. Nicht jetz, aber, wenn die Zeit korrekt ist, erkläre ich. I realize perhaps, I was some what critical of the {Red Army Choir Group} it is just the manner that I am, sorry. For you are correct and as that of Bujno. {My entent was to delete the post, but, bujno answered it first, which is good, I do need to use better caution on my post of a sensitive nature}. It is just I sense in the manner and content of this type of entertainment the propaganda message that is subliminal. For withen my self, I sense that as also of the very old {National Socialism} tactic of using music, symbles and showmanship as the lure to snare with. In this case, it was music such as for example that of: { Panzerwagenlied} that darn thing just will hang in a persons head. And many songs of this nature. The music is excellent, but, the content and words are not very pleasant. I think perhaps though, you are very much more cosmopolitin then that of my self. My past expereinces with other peoples were not of my doing, it was a life situation that forced those experiences. For by nature and habit, I am for the most part, a preference to be left alone, it is not only safer, but also that of a less chance of making social mistakes. In small words, socially I am a bit afraid. Very seldom by habit do I make close friends. But, I must admit, many tought to me some very lasting lessons whilst in my early age. The Russians taught me humility and kindness {an experience I rather not talk of }, The Danisch, taught me manners, and the Canadians taught me freedom, and in later years, the Americans put me to work. Withen the scope of this lenghty post, is not a goodly reason of justification to my rudness in the content of my post return to you. Sorry. Charles
|
|
|
Post by pieter on Oct 25, 2006 11:15:49 GMT -7
Charles, Auf geschmack sind wir auf verschiedene Welten, und wurde ich vielleicht viel mehr Russischen Kultur mögen als Deutsche. Von Russischen Konstriktivismus, Volksmusic, Klassische Musik und Literatur. Ich wurde die Russen politisch und Wirtschaftlich nicht trauen, aber in Kulturellen bereich steht die Russische Kultur viel näher zür meiner Mutters Heimat. Das die meiste Polen nichts von Russland haben mochten oder die Russen nicht mogen, hat damit nichts zu tun. I was raised in a house with a Pan-European culture, with Dutch, Polish, Russian, German, Austrian, Czech and Italian music. My parents love to watch Russian Opera on their Southern (French) cultural chanal. They are totally Francophone, and so I was raised Francophone, with even the conviction of my parents that the French culture is superior to the Dutch and German culture. So my family was directed to the South, and I nearly grew up in the French part of Belgium. Very Napoleontic, the French and Italian cultures are the European culture, together with the Greek roots. Ofcourse I disagreed, because I was more focussed on the English and German cultures. I absolutely disagree with you about the Russian choirs, which I find phantastic, although I disagree with the content. My father, a staunch anti-Communist all his life, played the red army song on his accordeon in pubs in Antwerp, when he was a young man. Charles, from where I live it would be more logical to meet a German lady than a Russian lady, because I live in the Eastern part of my country, the border region, and there are very nice German girls and women here. But I have nothing against Russian or Polish women either. Slavian women can be very nice, charming, loyal, sophisticated, elegant, educated, refined, a joy in your life, humoristic, cultural, and Modern. Some German and Dutch women I find to masculine, superficial, radical feminist and Germanistic, if you know what I mean. I come from a country where there are a lot of nationalities, cultures, races, religions. Like in Brasil you have wonderful mixes of people, and I live in the Turkish & Kurd quarter of my city, where they are living together with the Dutch majority, African immigrants, Maroccan berbers, Iranians and Afghans. The reception lady in my radio station is Polish, and I am now listening to a mix of Greek, Turkish, Russian, Arab and Albanian music on my own radio (the evening program with world music). Pieter pieter Wie so zutreffend, wie so zutreffend. Aber, wir sind noch auf der gleichen Buches. Ihr Russisicher Anschluß ist im kulturellen Bereich. Meins ist von einer persönlichen Natur. Nicht jetz, aber, wenn die Zeit korrekt ist, erkläre ich. I realize perhaps, I was some what critical of the {Red Army Choir Group} it is just the manner that I am, sorry. For you are correct and as that of Bujno. {My entent was to delete the post, but, bujno answered it first, which is good, I do need to use better caution on my post of a sensitive nature}. It is just I sense in the manner and content of this type of entertainment the propaganda message that is subliminal. For withen my self, I sense that as also of the very old {National Socialism} tactic of using music, symbles and showmanship as the lure to snare with. In this case, it was music such as for example that of: { Panzerwagenlied} that darn thing just will hang in a persons head. And many songs of this nature. The music is excellent, but, the content and words are not very pleasant. I think perhaps though, you are very much more cosmopolitin then that of my self. My past expereinces with other peoples were not of my doing, it was a life situation that forced those experiences. For by nature and habit, I am for the most part, a preference to be left alone, it is not only safer, but also that of a less chance of making social mistakes. In small words, socially I am a bit afraid. Very seldom by habit do I make close friends. But, I must admit, many tought to me some very lasting lessons whilst in my early age. The Russians taught me humility and kindness {an experience I rather not talk of }, The Danisch, taught me manners, and the Canadians taught me freedom, and in later years, the Americans put me to work. Withen the scope of this lenghty post, is not a goodly reason of justification to my rudness in the content of my post return to you. Sorry. Charles Charles, I understood your reaction from a point of view of an alergic reaction to ideological music used with the intention of being propaganda for a totalitarian regime. Germany and Germans in general are very sensetive towards this because of their own recent past, with national-socialism (1933-1945) and Prussian Communism (1945 - 1989). They probably know about the Nazi songs (Horst Wessel; , and the National Hymne, Deutschlandlied; ), march "lieder" ( , , www.nationalsozialismus.de/dokumente/tondokumente/lied-engeland-lied-1939-mp3 ) and Lili Marleen; . And the proletarian Arbeiter songs of Hans Eisler (DDR National Anthem; ) and Bandiera rossa by the FDJ; Pieter
|
|
|
Post by leslie on Oct 25, 2006 11:54:08 GMT -7
Charles and Pieter I may be oversensitive, but having lost members of my family in the two World Wars and having a short experience myself of WWII and its horrors, I found the Tube video of Lili Marlene an obnoxious one - not the song itself which is a good tune and is international, but the accompanying scenes on the video. I'm afraid I thought the reproduction of this variant lacking in sensitivity. I hope I don't offend you two, but you will appreciate my feelings by the fact that I have posted this. Leslie
|
|
|
Post by pieter on Oct 25, 2006 12:43:58 GMT -7
Leslie,
I recognise your sensibility Leslie, and posted this songs and video clips not to propagate the abject ideas of these two "German" totalitarian regimes, but the put it in the same perspective as the Sovjet propaganda, because I saw an exellent German movie about the life of Goebbels, and witnessed in that that he learned from the Russian example, watching Eisensteins movies. Yes, I appreciate your feelings, and I am sorry when I have heart you with this Jerry militarist marches and songs.
Pocketful of Eisenstein
clip from October - Sergei Eisenstein
Pieter
|
|
|
Post by bescheid on Oct 25, 2006 13:05:46 GMT -7
Charles and Pieter I may be oversensitive, but having lost members of my family in the two World Wars and having a short experience myself of WWII and its horrors, I found the Tube video of Lili Marlene an obnoxious one - not the song itself which is a good tune and is international, but the accompanying scenes on the video. I'm afraid I thought the reproduction of this variant lacking in sensitivity. I hope I don't offend you two, but you will appreciate my feelings by the fact that I have posted this. Leslie Leslie I am afraid I am lost? What are you talking of? My equipment will not pick up those videos as I have a dial up connection. My responses were against the propaganda danger value of the Red Choir and that of the long past music of the national socialism. That is rather simple and out right. You have no reason to appreciate that of my feelings, as you crossed them upon broaching your opposition; of comparison information exampled by pieter to better clarify his demonstrations. If the videos offend, then please not to watch them. Now I wished my equipment would have picked up youtube to see what I missed....{darn darn darn} Speaking only for my self at this present. There are many instances that a topic is covered that is irritating to me. But-I understand and respect that of feelings of others and their shared interest. It is called{Freedom}. {For the requirements of the many, out weigh the needs of the few} For you must remember also, that you are not the only one to lose relatives and loved ones in that darn war. The Polish folk lost far more then we may dream of and at end of war, suffered still with the Communist take over. Also might I suggest this: as a war time child, you had it fortunant. This is where I must stop Charles
|
|
bujno
Cosmopolitan
Posts: 648
|
Post by bujno on Oct 25, 2006 14:24:36 GMT -7
Charles and Pieter I may be oversensitive, but having lost members of my family in the two World Wars and having a short experience myself of WWII and its horrors, I found the Tube video of Lili Marlene an obnoxious one - not the song itself which is a good tune and is international, but the accompanying scenes on the video. I'm afraid I thought the reproduction of this variant lacking in sensitivity. I hope I don't offend you two, but you will appreciate my feelings by the fact that I have posted this. Leslie Leslie, I am afraid that this whole thread and its' video content degenerated into something not that pleasant. I understand your feelings perfectly. But at the same time I would like to say that perhaps the Lili Marlene movie was the only one which actually spoke against the militaristic ideas presented in the other German propaganda movies? At least that is how I have understood it. On the other hand I don't think that any of my relatives who went through the hell created by Nazi Germany would be able to see that or other video to the end to see the faint antimilitaristic moral.
|
|
|
Post by pieter on Oct 25, 2006 14:36:44 GMT -7
Polish songs:
First days of the Warsaw Uprising
Warsaw Uprising 1944 documentary
|
|
|
Post by sciwriter on Oct 25, 2006 15:08:09 GMT -7
Pieter, thanks. Today I watched Wajda's excellent movie: "Kanal" about 1944 Warsaw uprising. Carl
|
|
|
Post by pieter on Oct 25, 2006 16:58:15 GMT -7
My polish Grandad
|
|
|
Post by leslie on Oct 26, 2006 1:03:03 GMT -7
Bujno One of my disgusts was when the Nazi soldiers were marching through a town, three children were brought out onto the pavement by the female members of their family - dressed up in their Scout uniforms - and gave the Nazi salute. Baden Powell would have turned in his grave!! And all this while Lili was playing. Leslie
|
|
bujno
Cosmopolitan
Posts: 648
|
Post by bujno on Oct 26, 2006 4:45:26 GMT -7
Leslie, What I disliked about this video most is the lack of the context. We see Germans preparing for war, we see mass support and we see how they use fire and arms in combat. And then we see the German troops’ coming back with their hands held up high, we see the to-be-uebermenschen with mortal fear and disgrace in their eyes. But what we don’t see is much more important. We don’t see that in between some 60 000 000 human lives perished. We don’t see the barbrian or even inhumane ways German used in their fight and occupation. The video doesn’t show that, it just demonstrates the defeat in the war as if it was ‘just defeat’. It wasn’t just defeat. It was genocide perpetuated by the state of Germany. The longer time elapsed since that happened, the stronger we should remind and remember that. For the sake of freedom, peace and better friendship with the new, democratic and free German Republic.
|
|
|
Post by sciwriter on Oct 26, 2006 15:29:06 GMT -7
See YouTube video clips on Albania: Albania-Enver Hoxha, Skanderbeg & Mother Teresa:
Albanians would do a great job eradicating muggers, rapists, etc. Carl
|
|
Bob S
European
Rainbow Bear
Posts: 2,052
|
Post by Bob S on Oct 26, 2006 21:10:52 GMT -7
;D Les ;D "There Will Be Bluebirds Over The White Cliffs Of Dover, just you wait and see." ;D
|
|
|
Post by leslie on Oct 27, 2006 2:15:21 GMT -7
Chris (Rdy..)
Don't know how it happened but I missed your erudite posting of 20 October!. [/quote]Leslie...I have to add my two cents and that is that before you move on you must get past those speed bumps you keep putting in that path of yours. Chalk the two wives to experience and let go of the anger. The only person feeling it is you and preventing you from going forward and possibly meeting someone new. Think of all your blessings and consider your self a lucky man. You will meet someone if you allow it (and closer to yourself if you know what I mean) Chris...aka (Dear Blabby) [/quote][/color]
I guess it is just a misery period I am going through - a) only one indefinite job on the horizon for Poland apart from writing various articles for two organisations there, b) my long-standing relationship with a Polish woman has come to an abrupt end through faults of neither of us (I could make some nasty remarks about the Polish RC Church, but I won't); my son who lives with me looks as if secretly he is looking for an apartment, whether for himself or with his girlfriend, I don't know as he just tells me nothing; although I have friends here whom I meet quite regularly, for some reason I feel sad. lonesome and lonely deep inside and just can't shift it (I'm trying hard to keep my wodka consumption down) - that's just some of what I see as the causes. I'm fine when I'm out with my friends, but as soon as we part I'm back down in my gloom. It's not as bad as the depression I had when my second wife left me, and I certainly would not go back to any related medication - I had quite enough of that then. So you see at the moment I am living in two worlds - one very mixed up deep inside me. My anger with my second wife will not go away, because the Court Order she wangled involved my house. At the moment it is MY house, but when I die or sell it before that, she has to receive 40% of the proceeds. At the time of the divorce she almost cleaned me out, apart from the house and my pension, and I am damned if, while I am alive she is going to get anything more out of me. I know I am cutting my own throat, as I want to sell the house and would (up to two weeks ago) almost certainly have moved to Poland without this 40% hanging over me - but no way is she getting anything more out of me. In many ways, as you recommend, I do think of myself as a lucky man. The relationship that was forced to slam shut, violently, if all had been different would possibly have gone against my 'not a third time' feeling as it was a wonderful relationship - but now the door has been slammed shut, locked, chained , bolted, and our only chance of meeting is now if she can wangle a couple of days away from her job, I can get to Poland then and we can meet somewhere else in Poland secretly - which I hate having to put her in this position. Not sure what you meant by your last sentence.
Chris (and the forum) I'm sorry for loading all this on you, but when I found Chris' posting my fingers automatically went to the keyboard to respond. Thanks Chris for your concern (and those of others) - I think we have a wonderful band of empathic people on the forum whom I look on as all my distant friends (now the tears are starting to roll so I'll have to stop!)
Leslie
|
|
|
Post by rdywenur on Oct 27, 2006 4:17:26 GMT -7
Leslie we are here as your friends and wish you nothing but the best. Sounds like your are feeling loses and that is good cause for feeling sad. Try to stay connected as much as possible to your friends and stay away from the vodka as it will add to your depression. I have Skype and you know whow to email or pm me so anytime you need to talk feel free to do so. If your friends aren't availbable then go for a walk or to the mall but don't hang around the house. How about taking that camera of yours and go take photos around the town and post them for us.
|
|