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Post by Jaga on Nov 11, 2006 11:23:14 GMT -7
We hear that the middle class is shrinking. There are not that much manufacturing jobs anymore. My husband just asked me - do you think we are a middle class? I said, yes! After being a graduate student for several years, finally we are a middle class!!! We could afford to go to Hawaii, so we probably belong to the middle class now. I am not sure how to clasify our Polish friends. My parents were very educated, we were educated, but we never had any savings beyond maybe 1-2 thousands dollars because my parents salaries and my salaries were just too small. But maybe in Polish terms we belonged to a middle class also
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scatts
Cosmopolitan
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Post by scatts on Nov 12, 2006 13:00:01 GMT -7
Very hard thing to define, middle class. I actually think it's more of a state of mind than anything to do with money.
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Pawian
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Post by Pawian on Nov 16, 2006 11:13:22 GMT -7
Very hard thing to define, middle class. I actually think it's more of a state of mind than anything to do with money. A quick self-test to check your class, taken from "Class" by Paul Fussell, 1983. Your living room announces it: Wall-to-wall carpeting; Imitation Tiffany lamps; Encyclopedia Brittanica in wall init. Your favourite drink proclaims it: "Martoonies." Your vocabulary shouts it: "Grandma has passed away." "Meredith is expecting." Your car tells the world: Brand-new Mercedes or BMW. To compare: Upper class: Threadbare Orientla rugs; Dark wood walls; Exotic, out-of-season flowers. Scotch on the rocks (so soda!) in a tumbler decorated with sailboats. "Grand father died." "Muffy is pregnant." Dirty old Plymouth or Chevy.
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Pawian
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Post by Pawian on Nov 16, 2006 11:17:08 GMT -7
I am not sure how to clasify our Polish friends. My parents were very educated, we were educated, but we never had any savings beyond maybe 1-2 thousands dollars because my parents salaries and my salaries were just too small. But maybe in Polish terms we belonged to a middle class also They weren`t middle class due to financial limitations. BUT THEY WERE THE INTELLIGENTSIA!!!! The power that has the force to shape the country`s culture and people`s minds. !! Like Mickiewicz!! Only recently some representatives of the intelligentsia have been able to make up for the past financial constraints and today they are regular middle class.
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Post by constantine on Nov 17, 2006 5:26:12 GMT -7
They weren`t middle class due to financial limitations. BUT THEY WERE THE INTELLIGENTSIA!!!! The power that has the force to shape the country`s culture and people`s minds. !! Like Mickiewicz!! --------------------------------------------------------- Always reflexing and tossed intelligentsia wich have too high an opinion of itself that it can shapes culture and piople's minds.
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Post by Jaga on Nov 17, 2006 10:12:56 GMT -7
They weren`t middle class due to financial limitations. BUT THEY WERE THE INTELLIGENTSIA!!!! The power that has the force to shape the country`s culture and people`s minds. !! Like Mickiewicz!! Only recently some representatives of the intelligentsia have been able to make up for the past financial constraints and today they are regular middle class. Unfortunately intelligentsia was usually being paid much less that the blue collar workers - like a guy who knows how to repair a refrigerator. Still, you are right, intelligentsia shaped Polish middle class
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Pawian
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Post by Pawian on Nov 19, 2006 1:13:36 GMT -7
Always reflexing and tossed intelligentsia wich have too high an opinion of itself that it can shapes culture and piople's minds. Yes, we have illusions on that. But if we cannot shape minds, at least we can give a good example. hahahahahaha When I went on a trip with my class, and we also dropped by the shopping center, I boldly stepped inside the bookshop first and started reading books on shelves. I had to satisfy my thirst of reading. Only then did I go to the fast food bar hahahahahahahahaha
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Post by pieter on Nov 19, 2006 16:02:04 GMT -7
Dear people,
I voted "no", because my income is lower then average for middle class, but my family background is certainly middle class, comming from a family of bankers, merchants and administrators/directors. So actually a mix of Middle class and highn class. I don't know how to decribe it exsactly. Leading an unorthodox life, being a solist and going from job to job, I don't know to which class I belong. Most people I know are involved in art & culture. To what class do artists belong?
Pieter
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piwo
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Post by piwo on Nov 19, 2006 16:23:36 GMT -7
I voted yes. My wife and I both have jobs, we all have automobiles, and I pay for two kids in college. That screams "middle class" to me...
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Post by constantine on Nov 20, 2006 5:12:07 GMT -7
Yes, we have illusions on that. But if we cannot shape minds, at least we can give a good example. hahahahahaha When I went on a trip with my class, and we also dropped by the shopping center, I boldly stepped inside the bookshop first and started reading books on shelves. I had to satisfy my thirst of reading. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Reading is perfect habit, but it's not exactly feature of intelligentsia. There is a difference in conceptions. It is not only education and good manners, it something more.... For example, I am very educated, espetially in chemistry and history, but I think I am not and intelligent. IMHO, if someone said that he is an intelligentia it's telltail sign that it's not so. BTW, we have comic definition of intelligentsia term. Intelligent is such person who hurts someone without malicious joy. ;D
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Pawian
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Post by Pawian on Nov 22, 2006 11:44:38 GMT -7
Reading is perfect habit, but it's not exactly feature of intelligentsia. I am sure it is one of the traits. Especially if it is one book a day. Serious books, not romances. Of course, this more is your strong conviction that you belong to the intelligentsia and as such you are the elite of the nation.. Oh, come on, don`t underestimate yourself so much! If you are Russian, or Slavic, and you managed to learn a germanic language - English, then you surely belong to the intelligentsia. I have no problem with it. As a teacher, I am classified by experts as the intelligentsia. I know that in case Poland is occupied again, I will be repressed as a member of the elite of this nation. When Germans attack, they will put me up against the wall. When Russians, I will go to the Siberia to continue the exploration and research started there by intelligent Polish deportees in 19 th century. But don` t worry, I took steps to avoid it. I have already got me false papers which say I am a fire door locksmith. hahahahaha
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Post by bescheid on Nov 22, 2006 12:36:31 GMT -7
pawian
I am sorry, but have read the discourse between your self and constantine, and was very much with dispare, yes. And what would you suppose to be cause of this? Have nothing been learnt over the years? You are an educated man, and for what?
Jetzt, was ist es mit Ihnen Leute gekommen? Wenn zu jeder möglicher einer Zeit, sind Sie im Leben enttäuscht oder mißfallen mit Ihrer Situation. Sie ist immer, zurück zu uns Deutsche als der Grund Ihres Verdrussses, für, warum ist dieses? Oder ist Sie zu viel mit den Russen und dem Lena?
Yes, I know. It is always good to stay close to friends, but, much better to stay closer to your enimies. But, the new Russians are not my enimies.
For I know that you as an educated man, do understand and know German. For why, to take the chance with canstantine? For he knows much better....for that a person as of my self will catch and understand for what is spoken and for what is not..
Or, am I wrong? Ask Lena if not sure...it is the cost of double dealing.
Charles
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Pawian
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Post by Pawian on Nov 22, 2006 14:31:47 GMT -7
pawian I am sorry, but have read the discourse between your self and constantine, and was very much with dispare, yes. And what would you suppose to be cause of this? Have nothing been learnt over the years? You are an educated man, and for what? Charles I was sure you would drop by after my last post..... hahahaha Actually I wrote it thinking of you... I wanted you to participate more often in the forum hahahahaha Your despair was sort of wanted and expected but I will dissipate it soon.... Firstly, you obviously missed the laughter words which ended that post. The last part of it wasn`t too serious, naturally. Secondly, I intentionally didn` t finish the phrase about Germans. That`s the full version of it: If Germans attack, I will be put up against the wall, given a brush and paint and ordered to revitilise it. I am sorry if you found it so offensive. Hey, I thought you have a sense of humour hahahaha Dein Freund, Pawian.
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bujno
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Post by bujno on Nov 22, 2006 15:29:55 GMT -7
Drogi Przyjacielu z Grodu Kraka, i don't think that anyone should feel offended by your words. They were logically perfect. You have simply stated that _IF_ the Germans invaded they would kill you as one of the fist. IF is the clue. Why should we think that IF they invaded they would behave another way they invaed in 1939? That is history of course and righth now nothing suggests that they would wish to invade. And you said IF. And laughed.
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Post by bescheid on Nov 22, 2006 16:10:42 GMT -7
pawian I am sorry, but have read the discourse between your self and constantine, and was very much with dispare, yes. And what would you suppose to be cause of this? Have nothing been learnt over the years? You are an educated man, and for what? Charles I was sure you would drop by after my last post..... hahahaha Actually I wrote it thinking of you... I wanted you to participate more often in the forum hahahahaha Your despair was sort of wanted and expected but I will dissipate it soon.... Firstly, you obviously missed the laughter words which ended that post. The last part of it wasn`t too serious, naturally. Secondly, I intentionally didn` t finish the phrase about Germans. That`s the full version of it: If Germans attack, I will be put up against the wall, given a brush and paint and ordered to revitilise it. I am sorry if you found it so offensive. Hey, I thought you have a sense of humour hahahaha Dein Freund, Pawian. Pawian Well, what do I say, and then, how should I say it Actually think not so much of it. In actuallity, you got me and I simply walked into it, well so much for the Clingon Cloaking device.... And you are very correct in your manner, for you are a gentleman. In as much to humour, well I am working on it and actually trying, just seem to slip on occasion. And, you are correct, for the past few days, I have not held up my end on contributions-sorry-. As I made mention to Jaga, I will try to make rectification to this in the emmediate future {now}. Thank you Pawian for your patience, as I do place a great amount of value with your Friendship. Tschüs bis später Charles
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