'Nazi's 430,000 deaths charge'

[Nictoshek]

Evil ... Nazi guards at Belzec death camp in occupied Poland in 1942

A SUSPECTED Nazi death camp guard has been charged over the murders of 430,000 Jews.

By VINCE SOODIN

Published: Today

A SUSPECTED Nazi death camp guard has been charged over the murders of 430,000 Jews.

Samuel Kunz, 88, allegedly served Hitler's Third Reich in the Belzec camp in occupied Poland during World War Two.

He is number three on a most wanted list of ex Nazis.

Kunz was charged after prosecutors said he served as a guard from January 1942 to July 1943 where it is claimed he helped exterminate Jews.

He is also accused of the shooting a total of ten Jews in two other incidents.

Top Nazi hunter Efraim Zuroff said Kunz participated in the so-called Operation Reinhard to eliminate Polish Jews.

Mr Zuroff, from the Simon Wiesenthal Center which fights anti-Semitism, said: "The indictment of Samuel Kunz is a very positive development.

"It reflects recent changes in the German prosecution policy, which have significantly enlarged the number of suspects who will be brought to justice."

Connection

German officials are now considering whether and when to hold a trial.

Kunz was found living near the western German city of Bonn after his name came up in investigations connected to the trial of another suspected Nazi John Demjanjuk.

Demjanjuk, 90, is currently on trial in Munich on charges of being an accessory to the murder of 28,060 Jews as a guard at Poland's Sobibor death camp.

He denies he was ever a camp guard.

Prosecutors allege both Kunz and Ukrainian-born Demjanjuk, a retired Ohio car worker who was deported to Germany from the US last year, trained as guards at the Trawniki SS camp.

Kunz, whose family is German, was born in August 1921 on Russia's Volga River and joined the Red Army, claims Klaus Hillenbrand, a German expert who has written several books on the Nazi period.

But during World War Two he was captured by the Germans and given the choice of either staying at a prisoner of war camp or cooperating with the Nazis, said Hillenbrand.

Adolf Storms, a 90-year-old former SS sergeant who was number four on the Simon Wiesenthal Center's list of most-wanted Nazi war crimes suspects, died earlier this month before he could be brought to trial.

www.holocaustresearchproject.org/ar/belzec.html

[karl]

Nictoe

The presentation is excellent, and quite very educational, and perhaps my thoughts are not rampet as the voice for all.

But, let us think for a moment in time, it has been of time of what? 65 years? Should not the dead be let to go?

For what do the Americans know? But that only what has been allowed to then to know.. For there are some rather different views, rather that of the European Jews, and or, of the Israelis.

For as a German fellow, I have heard these similar death tales for most of my life. And of this, have developed a very deaf ear.

In past years and of recent, I have business dealings with folks of Israeli, and this subject is simply not spoken of, for who cares, for it is just history. We live now, we are the present. That of such long time past, is simply just history for the books of to be read by children.

I know that Tufta has been to Israel, and of my self for professional reasons, in as of Syria. Simply what would you suppose, if to bring this to the eyes of some Israelis upon the street? What would you suppose they would say?


Karl

[tuftabis]

Jul 28, 2010 14:34:48 GMT -7 Nictoshek said:

It reflects recent changes in the German prosecution policy, which have significantly enlarged the number of suspects who will be brought to justice."

Nictoe, interesting. These awful times should never be forgotten in order to never be repeated. Yes, the German prosecution policy did change, which is a good move, although teh change came very late and a lot of murderers have escaped earthly justice.

[tuftabis]

Jul 28, 2010 18:19:54 GMT -7 karl said:

In past years and of recent, I have business dealings with folks of Israeli, and this subject is simply not spoken of, for who cares, for it is just history.

I think you are wrong here, Karl. The Israeli do care and do know about Holocaust. They may don't talk about it with you beacuse you are German?

[tuftabis]

Jul 28, 2010 18:19:54 GMT -7 karl said:

For as a German fellow, I have heard these similar death tales for most of my life. And of this, have developed a very deaf ear.

In past years and of recent, I have business dealings with folks of Israeli, and this subject is simply not spoken of, for who cares, for it is just history. We live now, we are the present. That of such long time past, is simply just history for the books of to be read by children.

I think that the behaviour of those Israeli whom you have contacted in business matters is not representative. I have many contacts with the Israeli people and on the social exchange ground, and they speak quite openly about Nazi past. Also, if we turn it around, I know some German guys, and in person, I have shown Warsaw to some on a friendly 'trip'. I did not hide history, as it is impossible in Warsaw. They did not have the deaf ear. And they did not seem to think what they already knew, and saw in Warsaw, are tales for children.

[pieter]

Jul 28, 2010 18:19:54 GMT -7 karl said:

Nictoe

The presentation is excellent, and quite very educational, and perhaps my thoughts are not rampet as the voice for all.

But, let us think for a moment in time, it has been of time of what? 65 years? Should not the dead be let to go?

For what do the Americans know? But that only what has been allowed to then to know.. For there are some rather different views, rather that of the European Jews, and or, of the Israelis.

For as a German fellow, I have heard these similar death tales for most of my life. And of this, have developed a very deaf ear.

In past years and of recent, I have business dealings with folks of Israeli, and this subject is simply not spoken of, for who cares, for it is just history. We live now, we are the present. That of such long time past, is simply just history for the books of to be read by children.

I know that Tufta has been to Israel, and of my self for professional reasons, in as of Syria. Simply what would you suppose, if to bring this to the eyes of some Israelis upon the street? What would you suppose they would say?

Karl

Karl,

Again a strange reaction of you towards topics related to the German Nazi past, the Holocaust and the Polish and Jewish suffering during the Second World War. What are you doing on this Forum if you do not understand the Polish history, Polish sensabilities and the enormous Polish loss in the second world war. I also question your position towards the German history. I have never heard you say anything about the "German guilt", the suffering of many Germans under the Nazi opressive regime too.

I think you do not understand that 6 million Poles died in that war. That over 6 million Polish citizens — nearly 21.4% of Poland's population — died between 1939 and 1945. 3 million of them were Polish Roman Catholics, the intellectual core of the nation, the best young men and women, but also mothers, children, fathers and other civilians. And that over 90% of the death toll came through non-military losses, as most of the civilians were targeted by various deliberate actions by Germans Nazi's and Russian Soviets.

Of all the countries involved in the war, Poland lost the highest percentage of its citizens: over six million perished, half of them Polish Jews. Poland made the fourth-largest troop contribution to the Allied war effort, after the Soviets, the British and the Americans. The Polish expeditionary corps played an important role in the Italian Campaign, particularly at the Battle of Monte Cassino.

The Jewish victims of Nazi Germany

The pre-World War II population of European Jews is estimated at close to 9 million (1.5%). About two thirds of these were murdered in the Holocaust of 1940-1945.

The Poles, Israeli's and Diaspora Poles and jews with a Polish heritage have every right to remember their past and grieve for their loss. Poland was occupied by Germany for more than a century by Germans and Austrians in the past, and due to the Hitler regime Poland was suffering for 50 years from dictatorship, first the Nazi occupation from 1939 until 1945 and after that the Communist dictatorship, which came to existance as a direct result of the outcome of the war. Would the criminal and satanic Nazi regime did not have attacked Poland in 1939, Poland would have been a democracy for almost 90 years now.

Pieter

[karl]

Tufta and Pieter

Thank you for you post response, and the honest spontaneous spoken views. I realize that of which I have forwarded to you, would have elicited a response in one direction or another. But, you both have responded in a manner that is intrinsically of your selves, thank you.

Pieter has asked: Why are you here? To this, my answer: Because of folks as of you selves, you are my friends. For my presence here is not for curiosity, or to inject my own ideas of what needs be, or to play with people.

Non of the above, I am here simply because I like you guys and the folks here. If at moments, I have some thing to provide for all as additional information. Yes of course, I will post it, rather be it controversial or simply consumer goods, for what ever is at hand to add to the quality of this forum.

I now know Tufta has similar contact friends with Israeli nationals in simular my self. His reaction to my some what inflammatory post was very good. Yes, of course I am aware very much so, of the war time situation, it was a bad war. And yes of course, contacts and friends of Israeli Nationals as both social and business relation ships, we discuss the effects of that war.

A very few Israelis far in age at present, have shown their registration tattoo numbers upon their arms, and we openly discussed their experience. It is not a disgrace to exchange experiences of personal experiences of this sort. For in exchange for my part, I am some what knowledgeable of the logistics of the war, and described to some, the mechanics of distribution of transportation and equipment, was conducted and reasoning of manufacturing coding was instated for re-supple. The coding was changed in mid war. It is the new coding that is not disclosed, for in this manner, the Jewish Nazi hunters are unable to disclose a very many manufacturing business, that used slave labour provided by the various camps.

In as much of sensitivities with Israelis of the Holocaust. Most often, it is a discussion and exchange in conversation. I do not for the most part, broach this subject with American Israelis, for they over play for the most part. For why not, they are safe in America and will not face their military requirements in the IDF.

It appears of some very dark storm clouds in the horizon of the middle East. Israel will need all the friends it has. There is a special relationship between Israel and our country that goes beyond just political rhetoric. Israel will not fall for how ever.

Time will be the disclosure of how below the surface of the skin are the indicated friends that are to the State of Israel. For in military actions, are not always a nice thing. The stink from the inside of a destroyed tank, is not just burnt paint. The dead are not always military doing their duties in fighting, some children will never grow old. Theirs is the face of war.

And yes, the IDf are using our war time tactics learnt from experience and excellent past commanders. Similar as we still to this day, use. In as much to past wars we are familiar with. The lesson of combat is never lost.

In the reality of the present, I think perhaps that my self here, would be the most hated individual in the eye of the Israeli person. This has not been the case for as obvious, as a person. As a living inheritance of that time. It has been my personal experience with the Israelis, of deep ties that bind us. I have no explanation for this, other then it is a mutually felt situation. For the most part, we intrinsically understand and do our work together.

If perhaps my remarks upon the forum are inflammatory to some, this is not the intention. The intent is of information, and in this recent, a test for how close are we?

J.J., bless his heart, has not raised a hair with my remarks of the actions of his country. I think perhaps it is of our shared experiences in a war non of us wished for, but was caught up into the wishes of our respective governments.

Mine, was under civilian authority in the Balkans. Of the many burial sites of Albanians that were opened for victim identification, the smell is mostly forgotten.

Tufta and Pieter, once you are my friends, I am sorry, but you are stuck with this. We may not always agree, for it is a free given spirit of exchange. If perhaps this is not a mutual situation, I am very sorry. But, I am of a people of the sea, we use bad language, not always agreeable even to our government. But what will set us apart is, we may not like what our leadership will conduct, we will still support it. In as simular, we may not like what our friends speak of, but they are still our friends.

Perhaps it is good we have this conversation, for it brings to light any unspoken feelings. With this, any unspoken feelings of hate.

Mike on this forum is very quite honest, he hates us and this I understand. For we must work with what we have and he is honest and up front.

Karl

[tuftabis]

Jul 29, 2010 7:15:42 GMT -7 karl said:

Tufta and Pieter

Thank you for you post response, and the honest spontaneous spoken views. I realize that of which I have forwarded to you, would have elicited a response in one direction or another. But, you both have responded in a manner that is intrinsically of your selves, thank you.

Pieter has asked: Why are you here? To this, my answer: Because of folks as of you selves, you are my friends. For my presence here is not for curiosity, or to inject my own ideas of what needs be, or to play with people.

Non of the above, I am here simply because I like you guys and the folks here. If at moments, I have some thing to provide for all as additional information. Yes of course, I will post it, rather be it controversial or simply consumer goods, for what ever is at hand to add to the quality of this forum.

I now know Tufta has similar contact friends with Israeli nationals in simular my self. His reaction to my some what inflammatory post was very good. Yes, of course I am aware very much so, of the war time situation, it was a bad war. And yes of course, contacts and friends of Israeli Nationals as both social and business relation ships, we discuss the effects of that war.

A very few Israelis far in age at present, have shown their registration tattoo numbers upon their arms, and we openly discussed their experience. It is not a disgrace to exchange experiences of personal experiences of this sort. For in exchange for my part, I am some what knowledgeable of the logistics of the war, and described to some, the mechanics of distribution of transportation and equipment, was conducted and reasoning of manufacturing coding was instated for re-supple. The coding was changed in mid war. It is the new coding that is not disclosed, for in this manner, the Jewish Nazi hunters are unable to disclose a very many manufacturing business, that used slave labour provided by the various camps.

In as much of sensitivities with Israelis of the Holocaust. Most often, it is a discussion and exchange in conversation. I do not for the most part, broach this subject with American Israelis, for they over play for the most part. For why not, they are safe in America and will not face their military requirements in the IDF.

It appears of some very dark storm clouds in the horizon of the middle East. Israel will need all the friends it has. There is a special relationship between Israel and our country that goes beyond just political rhetoric. Israel will not fall for how ever.

Time will be the disclosure of how below the surface of the skin are the indicated friends that are to the State of Israel. For in military actions, are not always a nice thing. The stink from the inside of a destroyed tank, is not just burnt paint. The dead are not always military doing their duties in fighting, some children will never grow old. Theirs is the face of war.

And yes, the IDf are using our war time tactics learnt from experience and excellent past commanders. Similar as we still to this day, use. In as much to past wars we are familiar with. The lesson of combat is never lost.

In the reality of the present, I think perhaps that my self here, would be the most hated individual in the eye of the Israeli person. This has not been the case for as obvious, as a person. As a living inheritance of that time. It has been my personal experience with the Israelis, of deep ties that bind us. I have no explanation for this, other then it is a mutually felt situation. For the most part, we intrinsically understand and do our work together.

If perhaps my remarks upon the forum are inflammatory to some, this is not the intention. The intent is of information, and in this recent, a test for how close are we?

J.J., bless his heart, has not raised a hair with my remarks of the actions of his country. I think perhaps it is of our shared experiences in a war non of us wished for, but was caught up into the wishes of our respective governments.

Mine, was under civilian authority in the Balkans. Of the many burial sites of Albanians that were opened for victim identification, the smell is mostly forgotten.

Tufta and Pieter, once you are my friends, I am sorry, but you are stuck with this. We may not always agree, for it is a free given spirit of exchange. If perhaps this is not a mutual situation, I am very sorry. But, I am of a people of the sea, we use bad language, not always agreeable even to our government. But what will set us apart is, we may not like what our leadership will conduct, we will still support it. In as simular, we may not like what our friends speak of, but they are still our friends.

Perhaps it is good we have this conversation, for it brings to light any unspoken feelings. With this, any unspoken feelings of hate.

Mike on this forum is very quite honest, he hates us and this I understand. For we must work with what we have and he is honest and up front.

Karl

This is a very controvercial and even manipulating posting. Nonetheless I was preparing to form some kind of an answer. To tell the truth I am glad that in this situation I don't have to.

[tuftabis]

Jul 29, 2010 2:18:28 GMT -7 pieter said:

Jul 28, 2010 18:19:54 GMT -7 karl said:

Nictoe

The presentation is excellent, and quite very educational, and perhaps my thoughts are not rampet as the voice for all.

But, let us think for a moment in time, it has been of time of what? 65 years? Should not the dead be let to go?

For what do the Americans know? But that only what has been allowed to then to know.. For there are some rather different views, rather that of the European Jews, and or, of the Israelis.

For as a German fellow, I have heard these similar death tales for most of my life. And of this, have developed a very deaf ear.

In past years and of recent, I have business dealings with folks of Israeli, and this subject is simply not spoken of, for who cares, for it is just history. We live now, we are the present. That of such long time past, is simply just history for the books of to be read by children.

I know that Tufta has been to Israel, and of my self for professional reasons, in as of Syria. Simply what would you suppose, if to bring this to the eyes of some Israelis upon the street? What would you suppose they would say?

Karl

Karl,

Again a strange reaction of you towards topics related to the German Nazi past, the Holocaust and the Polish and Jewish suffering during the Second World War. What are you doing on this Forum if you do not understand the Polish history, Polish sensabilities and the enormous Polish loss in the second world war. I also question your position towards the German history. I have never heard you say anything about the "German guilt", the suffering of many Germans under the Nazi opressive regime too.

I think you do not understand that 6 million Poles died in that war. That over 6 million Polish citizens — nearly 21.4% of Poland's population — died between 1939 and 1945. 3 million of them were Polish Roman Catholics, the intellectual core of the nation, the best young men and women, but also mothers, children, fathers and other civilians. And that over 90% of the death toll came through non-military losses, as most of the civilians were targeted by various deliberate actions by Germans Nazi's and Russian Soviets.

Of all the countries involved in the war, Poland lost the highest percentage of its citizens: over six million perished, half of them Polish Jews. Poland made the fourth-largest troop contribution to the Allied war effort, after the Soviets, the British and the Americans. The Polish expeditionary corps played an important role in the Italian Campaign, particularly at the Battle of Monte Cassino.

The Jewish victims of Nazi Germany

The pre-World War II population of European Jews is estimated at close to 9 million (1.5%). About two thirds of these were murdered in the Holocaust of 1940-1945.

The Poles, Israeli's and Diaspora Poles and jews with a Polish heritage have every right to remember their past and grieve for their loss. Poland was occupied by Germany for more than a century by Germans and Austrians in the past, and due to the Hitler regime Poland was suffering for 50 years from dictatorship, first the Nazi occupation from 1939 until 1945 and after that the Communist dictatorship, which came to existance as a direct result of the outcome of the war. Would the criminal and satanic Nazi regime did not have attacked Poland in 1939, Poland would have been a democracy for almost 90 years now.

Pieter

Pieter, thank you for your words and telling the simple truth.
Yes, it is the past. But forgetting the past, inhibiting, intimidating those who speak about it should never be allowed.

Here's a link which demonstrated both the dangers of forgetting what was German Nazi past, and the adequate reactions taken by German democratic government

www.poten.com/NewsDetails.aspx?id=10547215

[pieter]

Jul 29, 2010 12:46:30 GMT -7 tuftabis said:

Jul 29, 2010 2:18:28 GMT -7 pieter said:

Karl,

Again a strange reaction of you towards topics related to the German Nazi past, the Holocaust and the Polish and Jewish suffering during the Second World War. What are you doing on this Forum if you do not understand the Polish history, Polish sensabilities and the enormous Polish loss in the second world war. I also question your position towards the German history. I have never heard you say anything about the "German guilt", the suffering of many Germans under the Nazi opressive regime too.

I think you do not understand that 6 million Poles died in that war. That over 6 million Polish citizens — nearly 21.4% of Poland's population — died between 1939 and 1945. 3 million of them were Polish Roman Catholics, the intellectual core of the nation, the best young men and women, but also mothers, children, fathers and other civilians. And that over 90% of the death toll came through non-military losses, as most of the civilians were targeted by various deliberate actions by Germans Nazi's and Russian Soviets.

Of all the countries involved in the war, Poland lost the highest percentage of its citizens: over six million perished, half of them Polish Jews. Poland made the fourth-largest troop contribution to the Allied war effort, after the Soviets, the British and the Americans. The Polish expeditionary corps played an important role in the Italian Campaign, particularly at the Battle of Monte Cassino.

The Jewish victims of Nazi Germany

The pre-World War II population of European Jews is estimated at close to 9 million (1.5%). About two thirds of these were murdered in the Holocaust of 1940-1945.

The Poles, Israeli's and Diaspora Poles and jews with a Polish heritage have every right to remember their past and grieve for their loss. Poland was occupied by Germany for more than a century by Germans and Austrians in the past, and due to the Hitler regime Poland was suffering for 50 years from dictatorship, first the Nazi occupation from 1939 until 1945 and after that the Communist dictatorship, which came to existance as a direct result of the outcome of the war. Would the criminal and satanic Nazi regime did not have attacked Poland in 1939, Poland would have been a democracy for almost 90 years now.

Pieter

Pieter, thank you for your words and telling the simple truth.
Yes, it is the past. But forgetting the past, inhibiting, intimidating those who speak about it should never be allowed.

Here's a link which demonstrated both the dangers of forgetting what was German Nazi past, and the adequate reactions taken by German democratic government

www.poten.com/NewsDetails.aspx?id=10547215

You are welcome Tufta and I agree with you completely.

We also agree that the present German authorities have a good anti-Neo nazi policy.





I have to say that next to these Neo-Nazi's I find the German far left and Muslim militant political movements threatening to the German Democratic constitution, German democracy and the present day Germany (Bundesrepublik Deutschland) too.

The German far left "Autonomen" terrorize parts of Hamburg and Berlin as they did in Copenhagen, Amsterdam and Nijmegen in the past.


Islamism, the political radical form of Islam