|
Post by Eric on Aug 8, 2010 18:26:32 GMT -7
Lately I've noticed a serious increase in nationalistic, even hate-filled posts, and it's a small minority of members that are to blame.
Russians, Germans, and Arabs have received the majority of the criticism, or at least the harshest, often without any other reason except that they're Russians, Germans, and Arabs. Religious curses have even been invoked, saying anything bad that happens is "God's payback."
Really, this shouldn't be a forum where Poles and Americans are idolized, the Germans can be respected from afar, Russians are loathed, and everyone else is just looked down upon.
Internationalism means respect for and learning about other peoples and cultures, and that's truly what I think this forum should strive for. Jaga herself is an excellent example of this internationalism, both in her whole life, and in her recent trip to Lithuania.
It's sad that certain people have taken advantage of Jaga's long absence in order to project their own sad and non-progressive opinions on this forum, but the time has come for this to stop. In reading some of the recent posts I have been truly offended at times, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
|
|
|
Post by justjohn on Aug 8, 2010 19:04:03 GMT -7
Lately I've noticed a serious increase in nationalistic, even hate-filled posts, and it's a small minority of members that are to blame. Russians, Germans, and Arabs have received the majority of the criticism, or at least the harshest, often without any other reason except that they're Russians, Germans, and Arabs. Religious curses have even been invoked, saying anything bad that happens is "God's payback." Really, this shouldn't be a forum where Poles and Americans are idolized, the Germans can be respected from afar, Russians are loathed, and everyone else is just looked down upon. Internationalism means respect for and learning about other peoples and cultures, and that's truly what I think this forum should strive for. Jaga herself is an excellent example of this internationalism, both in her whole life, and in her recent trip to Lithuania. It's sad that certain people have taken advantage of Jaga's long absence in order to project their own sad and non-progressive opinions on this forum, but the time has come for this to stop. In reading some of the recent posts I have been truly offended at times, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Eric, You are correct in your assessment. I am also to blame for posting web sites that promote ill feelings and potential hate. For that I am sorry. I will refrain from posting till the wind bodes well again.
|
|
|
Post by hollister on Aug 8, 2010 20:29:10 GMT -7
Lately I've noticed a serious increase in nationalistic, even hate-filled posts, and it's a small minority of members that are to blame. Russians, Germans, and Arabs have received the majority of the criticism, or at least the harshest, often without any other reason except that they're Russians, Germans, and Arabs. Religious curses have even been invoked, saying anything bad that happens is "God's payback." Really, this shouldn't be a forum where Poles and Americans are idolized, the Germans can be respected from afar, Russians are loathed, and everyone else is just looked down upon. Internationalism means respect for and learning about other peoples and cultures, and that's truly what I think this forum should strive for. Jaga herself is an excellent example of this internationalism, both in her whole life, and in her recent trip to Lithuania. It's sad that certain people have taken advantage of Jaga's long absence in order to project their own sad and non-progressive opinions on this forum, but the time has come for this to stop. In reading some of the recent posts I have been truly offended at times, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. No, Eric, you are not the only one. There have been times I wish I had not posted some items and now I find myself loathe to post ANYTHING for fear of attacks, intentional misconstruing of the post, and generally feeling that my voice is not welcome. That being said, I do enjoy reading the posts that open up the world to me and challenge me to think about my assumptions and consider new viewpoints and let me make the decision what I think and believe about an issue, and event or a place.
|
|
|
Post by Eric on Aug 8, 2010 21:46:52 GMT -7
My period of being an "activist" in the forum (and it's happened on several occasions) has passed. My feelings, opinions, and attitudes are already generally known, and I've realized the hard way that there are constructive ways of expressing them, and then there are arguments. It just so happens that I'm in a small minority here regarding many of my views, so I don't even bother anymore, since it's impossible for me to win. And why would I want to win, anyway? What would that earn me? Nothing, really.
There's nothing wrong with constructive debate. Even arguments can't be avoided. But some posts in this forum recently have just been ugly. Not only ugly, but deliberately so, designed specifically to get a reaction. I tried to ignore them at first, but even then a point was reached where I couldn't stay silent in good conscience and allow this to continue. I don't want to see this forum reduced to the level of "trash talk," racism, xenophobia, and so on.
I hope Jaga will be able to help sort things out when she has more time to participate in the forum.
|
|
|
Post by Eric on Aug 8, 2010 21:48:26 GMT -7
Eric, You are correct in your assessment. I am also to blame for posting web sites that promote ill feelings and potential hate. For that I am sorry. I will refrain from posting till the wind bodes well again. I'm sure there's no reason for you to stop posting, as I know you're capable of more than just promoting "ill feelings and potential hate." If nothing else, let's consider this a learning experience and move on... hopefully in a positive direction.
|
|
|
Post by Eric on Aug 8, 2010 21:49:35 GMT -7
No, Eric, you are not the only one. There have been times I wish I had not posted some items and now I find myself loathe to post ANYTHING for fear of attacks, intentional misconstruing of the post, and generally feeling that my voice is not welcome. That being said, I do enjoy reading the posts that open up the world to me and challenge me to think about my assumptions and consider new viewpoints and let me make the decision what I think and believe about an issue, and event or a place. Hindsight is always 20/20. Unfortunately, it's not always possible to predict how people will react to one of your posts. However, if it's not in the spirit of hate, there usually shouldn't be anything to worry about. There's a simple rule I follow. Patriotism is a good thing. Nationalism is a bad thing.
|
|
|
Post by RabiaMuweis on Aug 8, 2010 23:38:56 GMT -7
You're right Eric>.& Thank you for you opened the topic
|
|
|
Post by arlene on Aug 9, 2010 6:33:45 GMT -7
To All! I don't think there isn't anything wrong with your forum. I think it is good messages for us to know. Sometime I don't watch TV, read newspaper and I don't watch Special Bulletins on TV. I do missed lot of important news around the world. I think everybody shouldn't be mad about it. Some people have good points of views and others don't. Everybody should know and have their says. Whether we like it or not. I would like to be informs if somethings going to happen. Or someone is threating us, bad weathers and what happening in our histories. There are new generations who haven't heard about it are surprised how we have dealt with problems. Our future children will have difficultly time to deal with it. It is important for us to posting our thoughts. We have to handles it nicely manners. We should keep on repeating our histories like in Poland in 1939 - 1945 which is very important to all of us. Now we are dealing with Muslims and ?? In U.S.A. we are kinda rough but we do it in businesses way. We sound like we are firm and controlling world. Other countries don't like us which is fine with us. We do care and help the world to be in better places. Maybe you all are concerned about Mike, me and others are arguing in posting. Don't worry. We still loves this Forum and all of you are doing good jobs teaching us about Poland. Sometime we don't like some ideas what being said. We posts. So stay with what you like to do even Jaga is great too.
|
|
|
Post by pieter on Aug 9, 2010 7:39:09 GMT -7
Eric, You are a good, sensitive and intelligent guy, and like Karl ( the German perspective) you present a minority position here, the Russian side. You are one " Russian" voice in a sea of Polish-Americans, Poles and people with Polish roots or an interest or fondness of Poland. So naturally this is not a neutral forum. Why? Because the Polish Catholic atmosphere, culture and Polish point of view rules from a Polish-American, Polish Poles and Diaspora Pole (as a half Pole I belong to that group) rule. Maybe Kaima with his Slovak-American (Alaskan) roots and German experiance is also a One man show. Maybe I am with my Dutch-Polish view also a Solist or Solipsist here? Solipsism (pronounced /ˈsɒlɨpsɪzəm/) is the philosophical idea that only one's own mind is sure to exist. Solipsism is an epistemological or ontological position that knowledge of anything outside one's own specific mind is unjustified. The external world and other minds cannot be known and might not exist. In the history of philosophy, solipsism has served as a skeptical hypothesis. Links in Polish, English, German and Russian: pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsyzmen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsismde.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsismusru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BF%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%BCI think some of us are Solipsists, have a big ego or like to see our own view and defend it. The diversity, pluriformity and therefor heterogenous character and being of this Forum is very important and dear to me. Personally I think it is very good and special of this Forum that we have the Polish perspective from Krakow (Pawian/Bonobo), Warsaw (Tufta), Zooba (Poznan), Karl (our German voice), Eric (for the Russian perspective), Kaima (the Slovak-American and Alaskan perspective), Mikes perspective, Jaga's perspective and the many Polish-American voices here. You probably know by know that my main interest is in Poland itsself and the relation of that country of my ancesters and Polish family with it's neighbours and the world. The Diaspora is less of my interest, but fortunately is taken care of by other Forum members. So I have to admid that I don not have a great interest in the Polish diaspora in the Netherlands, because my focus and interest is Poland itself. But I like the many quality and indepth contributions of fellow Forum members about non-Polish issues too. I know I have posted some Dutch topics here too, and sometimes I doubt if other members are interested in it. So I limeted these posts of mine. Pieter
|
|
|
Post by pieter on Aug 9, 2010 7:45:49 GMT -7
Eric, You are a good, sensitive and intelligent guy. That is also the poet in you and your German and Russian roots, two peoples with a culture, poetic tradition, philosophy, science, interesting dark and bright past, regional development and influence of neighbouring cultures and peoples.
|
|
|
Post by indianamike on Aug 9, 2010 9:09:22 GMT -7
I am sorry if I upset anyone, but this is just my feelings, and sometimes hard to hide. Each memeber should be able to post whatever they feel without upsetting anyone. Each has there own feelings on many things. I don't ever feel what I post is more than the way I read, the facts, others see things different.
Mike
|
|
Bob S
European
Rainbow Bear
Posts: 2,052
|
Post by Bob S on Aug 9, 2010 9:32:12 GMT -7
Everyone has an opinion and each is as valuable as another. Opinions are free and (everyone has them) cost nothing. However, some opinions are best kept to ourselves so that we do not cause deep pain to another. Some persons use other's opinions to divide and conquer. I only hope that I am not one of those.
|
|
|
Post by karl on Aug 9, 2010 9:55:18 GMT -7
Eric
I have read your presentation, and I do understand you prospective and reasoning. For at this moment, I am at loss of precisely what to say in return, but as similar, my intrinsic feeling is I must respond.
For each of us, have within our selves, our strengths and weaknesses. It is to our strengths to rely upon, and our weaknesses to keep aside, for in time, that weakness may be an asset in the proper context of time.
For each of us, we live in a time of great prosperity, with a greatest of advantages of personal freedom we so enjoy. And with this, the advantage of freedom to speak our thoughts with out fear. And as so, it is important that each of us have the freedom to speak our thoughts, within the confines of the rules that guidance that prevails upon the forum of this.
Eric, I consider you to be Russian and non other. I understand you in as well I understand your country. There are some with out the experience and knowledge to guide their thoughts by. And this is usually the problem in essence.
To say of the above, is rather impudent I do well understand. This situation you have brought forward though, is a situation I have experienced most of my life. As of your self, my self as similar, we have a weakness of sensitivity, for I recognize this in your post writing. It is nothing bad mind you, it is a great advantage in most any social situation. But, as similar, it may work against you, for this, we must be aware and control our emotions. It is a gift we must keep to our selves.
It is to the people informed with the education the most of us of this forum enjoy. But, there are others with out the tools of understanding we most enjoy, that are at an disadvantage of. And for this reason, it is to your self, my self, and others, to understand this, and provide the leadership to the disadvantaged.
I know of those you have brought forward with out the name. For there are some instances my self included, my temperament becomes inflamed very very greatly. But, I must and as requirement, stay my temper for a while, to let understanding become the present reality.
Eric, unlike your self as an instructor and person of note worth. I am a fake, for in my heart and mind, I am nothing but a North sea fisherman, bad in temperament and at present, a lack of salt water in my face.
What I do wish to say, is this: It is to us, to show leadership and compassion to those lacking the skills we have learnt in higher education. We must though, stay together and provide the leadership that has been tossed into our direction, rather we wish for this or not.
Karl
|
|
|
Post by Jaga on Aug 9, 2010 20:17:25 GMT -7
Dear All,
Please, try to be sensitive to the feelings of people from different countries. To tell us that it is good that people in Russia or Saudi Arabia or Pakistan had to suffer because they deserve it... is really beyond any moral standards.
I feel really guilty since I do not monitor the forum that carefully as I used to. I usually like free discussions. It is very good to have minority views - like Eric or Karl. WE NEED YOU!!! It is also good not to have too much censorship.
I think we all need to understand that the world looks very different from different perspectives.
I do not really want to delete the post unless it has an intentional hatred or a bad language. Eric did attract my attention to some posts by Mike "indianamike". These posts did not show the sensitivity, but they were still in the range of the posts which I would tolerate..... I would suggest ignoring the posts which you do not agree...
If you guys think that somebody need to be eliminated we can discuss it offline or in the host forum.
|
|
|
Post by indianamike on Aug 10, 2010 5:24:20 GMT -7
Here is my question, Why is it that the rest of the world hate Americans? We have saved many in war, and feed many for years, help others get a fresh start, and many of these turn on us. Why is this? Why do they hate us?
Mike
|
|