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Post by rdywenur on Aug 8, 2007 18:11:39 GMT -7
Does anyone know the English translation for this children's book
JAS I MALGOSIA what is it about. Thanks all/anyone.
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Post by Jaga on Aug 8, 2007 19:16:04 GMT -7
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Post by kaima on Aug 9, 2007 0:32:25 GMT -7
Aha, I couldn’t resist, since ‘Hansel and Gretel’ is most often thought of as a German fairy tale, to remind people that the Grimm brothers were great at cribbing stories from other peoples! Given the proximity of their home town of Hanau and the Märchenstraße (Fairytale road) going east toward Fulda (Schluctern) and then north to Bremen to the earlier Slavic settlements (Wendish and Silesian areas), I figured they may well have taken tales from Poles and close relatives to the Poles. A quick search did not reveal that, but did demonstrate that they were well known for borrowing from other nations and presenting the tales as German. Remember, this was a time when the old Holy Roman-Germanic Empire was abolished by Napoleon and Germany existed only as a collection of small states and principalities united only by similar language. From the quick search, several sources: In older versions of the classic tale Rapunzel The notes at the back of Rapunzel reveal his careful scholarship regarding the long history of the story (tracing its origins and transformations from Italy to France and finally to Germany and the Grimm brothers) From ‘Muse’: “It is by now old news, at least to students of folklore and children's literature, that the Brothers Grimm did not gather their famous folktales from grandmotherly German peasant women. Over twenty years ago, John M. Ellis's exposé, One Fairy Story Too Many, among others, put that myth to rest.” In “One Fairy Story Too Many “ … John Ellis argues in this book that the tales have little to do with German folklore--and that the brothers clearly knew it. Ellis shows that the Grimm’s deliberately made false claims for their tales and suppressed the evidence of their actual origin. In fact, their sources in many cases were not even German--the celebrated Märchenfrau of Niederzwehren was educated, middle-class, and French. Moreover the Grimms, while claiming to be utterly true to their sources, altered the tales radically before publication, changing their plots, characters, style, and moral tone, and continued to make revisions throughout the seven editions. Reviews also give conflicting statements in the same review: “They were also criticized for being insufficiently German; this not only affected the tales they included, but their language as they changed "Fee" (fairy) to an enchantress or wise woman, every prince to a king's son, every princess to a king's daughter.[14] (It has long been recognized that some of these later-added stories were derived from printed rather than oral sources.)” … “The Brothers Grimm were the first workers in this genre to present their stories as faithful renditions of the kind of direct folkloric materials that underlay the sophistications of an adapter like Perrault.” In so doing, the Grimms took a basic and essential step toward modern folklore studies, leading to the work of folklorists like Peter and Iona Opie[16] and others. At least in presenting the collected and much-edited tales as true to the original, “In so doing, the Grimms took a basic and essential step toward modern folklore studies, leading to the work of folklorists like Peter and Iona Opie[16] and others. “A century and a half after the Grimms began publishing, however, a sweeping, skeptical, and highly critical re-assessment disproved the Grimms' basic claims about their work.[17] The Brothers did not in fact use exclusively German sources for their collection; far from maintaining fidelity to those sources, they rewrote and revised and adapted their stories, just as Perrault and their other predecessors had done. The different printed versions of the tales display the latter fact; the 1810 manuscripts, published in 1924, 1927, and 1974, accentuate the Brothers' consistent habit of changing and adapting their original materials. The irony is that the Brothers Grimm helped create a serious scholarly discipline that they themselves never practiced.” “It should be noted that the Grimms' method was common in their historical era.” Parts of the above were also lifted from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brothers_Grimm
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Post by rdywenur on Aug 10, 2007 9:24:31 GMT -7
Thanks Jaga and Kai. I think I should have explained myself a bit more clearer. I wanted the translation of the names...What is Jas in English and same for Malgosia...I don't think it is Hansel and Gretel (which might translate to Henry and Gertrude) But I did enjoy your finding Kai. That was a quite interesting article which I was not aware of.
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Post by bescheid on Aug 10, 2007 11:13:58 GMT -7
Ahhh, jeepers, you guys spoil every thing with facts I have always enjoyed {Grimms Märchen}. And so they are mostly borrowed from other stories, some times mean, some times cruel, some times funny, but still, are fun to read.... Charles
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Post by Jaga on Aug 10, 2007 16:14:13 GMT -7
Chris,
the closets to Jas (Jan) is John and the closest to Malgosia is Margareth.
Kai, Charles,
my aunts from Silesia loved to tell me brothers Grimm stories but I always felt that they were a bit cruel - like the fact that the kids are putting the witch to the oven! Was this cruelty something common in German literature?
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Post by bescheid on Aug 10, 2007 17:03:35 GMT -7
Chris, the closets to Jas (Jan) is John and the closest to Malgosia is Margareth. Kai, Charles, my aunts from Silesia loved to tell me brothers Grimm stories but I always felt that they were a bit cruel - like the fact that the kids are putting the witch to the oven! Was this cruelty something common in German literature? Jaga Only as a personal reflection...The meaning of the story to us as children was of a message of the story {not all}. But, in the case of the witch, she recieved what she deserved for as she was intent upon eating the children and in thier place, she was pushed into the oven to suffer instead with her own fate.. And with some others. The message was not to make fun of stupid people, for they may be lucky such as with lucky Hans. And of others, the lesson was of {Good eventually over coming of Evil}. With the stories, it was also the message. This was a manner of us as younger, to learn and understand our world. And how we should treat other people. The currant book I have is dated of 1964, publisher {Lowes Verlag Ferdinand Carl Stuttgart}. Charles
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Post by Jaga on Aug 10, 2007 22:41:14 GMT -7
Charles,
I have heard that some of the stories were modified from the original not only to make it easier to children to understand but also to eliminate some drastic scenes.
I still think that showing children putting the witch to the oven is not the best for the kids! It would be better if which would dissapear or blow off as a bubble rather...
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