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Post by pieter on Jul 1, 2012 12:58:30 GMT -7
They are now blowing up funerals. Even the dead themselves and mourners aren't safe anymore. It is just a sick conflict and situation.
I don't like disrespect for human lives and dignity anywhere.
WARNING - gruesome images
The situation seems to be no different from Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan where suicide bombings and sectarian attacks continue and are unstoppable. It seems that the last decade a sectarian war is raging in the Islamic world, and that the core issue is the powerstruggle between Sunni and Shia Islam in the Middle East or Western Asia.
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Post by pieter on Jul 1, 2012 13:23:40 GMT -7
A dissenting voice
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Post by karl on Jul 1, 2012 17:00:40 GMT -7
Pieter
How well do I agree with you, this is sick, extremely deplorable in an inhumane manner. As usual, it is the innocent that sufferers the brunt of those seeking power at any cost, even the cost of human suffering and lives. We have but one chance to live, if that is taken from us, it was all we had.
I think perhaps though, some cool heads must prevail with this, and introspection needs to be entertained in the present and currant event of reality.
The past events of the roller coaster ride of the Arab Spring worked quite well with previous Arab countries targeted for take over. Except, now they have hit the wall of Syrian resolve..
For one, this manner of technique to grand slamming for world attention is a well known manner of targeting innocent people to ignite sectarian unrest. The means of action has been exemplified by this example as typical of al-Queda in Iraq. But of course, the situation is in Syria.
Now, it is necessary for world leaders to regain a cool head and not bend into pressure of weakening the Syrian government with threats and resolutions, that are meaning less and serve little purpose other then providing confusion.
For one, now The Turkish Government has an ax to grind for the lose of their spy aircraft with accompanying crew. In this, it is reasonable to understand their providing assistance at border edge between Syria and Turkey. This to be used as a marshaling area for expeditionary forces in covert operations into Syria. With the use of mercenary units and associated despots of various finds, it then removes the responsibility of the departments of respective governments.
Funding is not the problem, for funding is easily accomplished through the process of interdepartmental budget transfers. For example in the use of a budget transfer with out the paper trail.
A budget is set up for such example as: Humanitarian aid to children of Kurdish ethnics with out parents. The target area in Turkey was previously set up with representatives of responsibility for draws against the account signed for.
But in the above process, a situation of humanitarian emergency has arisen and no processable funding has been set up. The amount requested is presented to the person{s} of responsibility and following the required report of reason of funding. The monies are then transferred to cover the emergency out of the original budget of Humanitarian aid.
The situation though is: The funding from the inter-budgetary account, never reaches the stated humanitarian emergency. In this stead, it is channeled into accounts previously set up with representatives for procurement of listed weapons/ associated ammunition and related equipment from suppliers.
With the above, residue from the accounts will go to representatives to recruit such professional as available with associated individuals of dubious character. But, this is not an issue, for it takes not a person of good character to murder people with explosives, just the pay in their pockets to insure of good work.
Is this the work of good Christians and civil servant employees of a democratic nation of Christians?
My self, it is not good to pass judgment of this nature.
Karl
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Post by pieter on Jul 2, 2012 9:48:34 GMT -7
Pieter How well do I agree with you, this is sick, extremely deplorable in an inhumane manner. As usual, it is the innocent that sufferers the brunt of those seeking power at any cost, even the cost of human suffering and lives. We have but one chance to live, if that is taken from us, it was all we had. I think perhaps though, some cool heads must prevail with this, and introspection needs to be entertained in the present and currant event of reality. The past events of the roller coaster ride of the Arab Spring worked quite well with previous Arab countries targeted for take over. Except, now they have hit the wall of Syrian resolve.. For one, this manner of technique to grand slamming for world attention is a well known manner of targeting innocent people to ignite sectarian unrest. The means of action has been exemplified by this example as typical of al-Queda in Iraq. But of course, the situation is in Syria. Now, it is necessary for world leaders to regain a cool head and not bend into pressure of weakening the Syrian government with threats and resolutions, that are meaning less and serve little purpose other then providing confusion. For one, now The Turkish Government has an ax to grind for the lose of their spy aircraft with accompanying crew. In this, it is reasonable to understand their providing assistance at border edge between Syria and Turkey. This to be used as a marshaling area for expeditionary forces in covert operations into Syria. With the use of mercenary units and associated despots of various finds, it then removes the responsibility of the departments of respective governments. Funding is not the problem, for funding is easily accomplished through the process of interdepartmental budget transfers. For example in the use of a budget transfer with out the paper trail. A budget is set up for such example as: Humanitarian aid to children of Kurdish ethnics with out parents. The target area in Turkey was previously set up with representatives of responsibility for draws against the account signed for. But in the above process, a situation of humanitarian emergency has arisen and no processable funding has been set up. The amount requested is presented to the person{s} of responsibility and following the required report of reason of funding. The monies are then transferred to cover the emergency out of the original budget of Humanitarian aid. The situation though is: The funding from the inter-budgetary account, never reaches the stated humanitarian emergency. In this stead, it is channeled into accounts previously set up with representatives for procurement of listed weapons/ associated ammunition and related equipment from suppliers. With the above, residue from the accounts will go to representatives to recruit such professional as available with associated individuals of dubious character. But, this is not an issue, for it takes not a person of good character to murder people with explosives, just the pay in their pockets to insure of good work.
Is this the work of good Christians and civil servant employees of a democratic nation of Christians?
My self, it is not good to pass judgment of this nature.
KarlKarl, We agree that this is a sick and extremely deplorable situation. It is inhumane to people of all ethnic backgrounds, beliefs, cultures and political affiliations. I have never been to the Middle-East, I am not an expert of Syria nor of the Levant region in which the country is situated, nor am I an expert on Western-Asia and to be more precisely the Middle-East. I do know however and have met numerous people from that region and heard their sometimes conflicting or competing stories. I have to explain. In my 20 years in Arnhem I have worked in different fields, like you have worked in different fields in your life. In those 20 years I met an Iraqi Kurd, who was a tank brigade commander in Sadam Husseins army in the Iraq-Iran war of 1980-1988. Later he was persecuted by Sadams secret services as a Kurd. And after infighting occured between Kurd fractions in Kurdistan (PUK against PDK) he again was persecuted, but then by rival Kurds. I met a Sunni Arab Egyptian, Iranians (a colleage of mine), Turkish Kurds and Iraqi Kurds, Sunni Muslim Turks, Allawite Turks, Sunni Muslim Moroccans, Sudanese and Somali Muslims and etc. etc. A lot of them were dissidents, refugees and opposition supporters in their countries. I know that I got their subjective, and one sided stories, but in their subjective and personal truths they showed me somethibg about Iraq, Iran and Egypt. I saw the Sunni Muslim (Arabian Peninsula -Saoudi/Egyptian/Qatar) view and I saw the Shia (Iran, Hezbollah Lebanon, Shia Iraq majority and government) point of view in the Netherlands. In the same time I did not knew the facts on the ground. I did not have intelligence reports, news from diplomats of the foreign embassies in the region, not the real stories and experiances of foreign correspondents, photographers, camera crews, the writing press and radio journalists. And very important for an objective view I can't read the local, regional and national newspapers, magazines and websites of the Arab, Persian, Kurd and Turkish media in the region, who give different perspectives than the English, German and Dutch media that I follow. Nor can I read or watch the media of the supporters of the Syrian regime, the Russian, Chinese, Iranian and North-Korean press or government points of view. We in Western-Europe and the USA only see a limited picture of the reality in Syria, the Levant and the Middle east. We base our facts on the BBC, CNN and Al Jazeera English. (That are my sources.) The reality lies after a smoke screen of real smoke of artillery, machine guns, tank fire, bomb attacks and the misinformation of the Agitprop of the conflicting parties. We don't know what is excactly going on over there. What the world knows however is that the Syrian population is suffering and that the mass murder, the violation of human rights and the oppression and harassment of the Syrian population has to stop. If it doesn't stop soon the Syrian civil war will become a regional conflict in which several countries will take part and which won't be stopped easily. The Iraq-Iran war lasted 8 years. The Afghan war with the Sovjets against the Mehudjadin lasted more than a decade. The Lebanese civil war too. This war will be bloodier and larger than the Lebanese Civil war. But that is just my opinion. And my wisdom comes only from encyclopedia, articles, essays and documentries. The real experts are in or outside Syria, and have real connections in the region. What really is going on? You have to go to Syria for that to find out! Introspection needs to be entertained for sure in the present and currant event of reality. The Arab Spring in my view is a series of regime changes which toppled secular, Arab Nationalist and Arab socialist dictatorships to replace them by new regimes controlled by Islamists or people of the Ancien regime who took their chances to step in the place of replaced colleages. In Egypt the Ancien regime stil controls the power via the militairy and the legal system (the judges and public prosecutors) Targeting innocent people to ignite sectarian unrest is an old message of terrorism. It was used by Genghis Khan, Ivan the Terrible, during the Red Terror of the French revolution (The Jacobine radical fraction who beheaded everyone), by Stalin, by Hitler, Himler and Heydrich, by Poll Pot, Mao, the Hutu militia's in Rwanda and by the Army of the Lord in Uganda. And yes, by al-Queda in Iraq, the USA, Europe, Northern-Africa, Africa and in the Middle East. Syria is Syria, but with it's already bloody past and the mentality of both sides. Fighting to the death. The Sunni majority and other opposition forces (with the support of Turkey, the CIA, Saoudi Arabia, Qatar and the Anti-Syrian powers in Lebanon. The Lebanese Sunni Muslims and the anti-Syrian Christians and Druze) will go to the end. It's now or never for them. The same counts for the other side, the Allawite and Christian backed regime, the secret services and the army elements that are stil loyal to Assad. Karl I agree with what you wrote: These are facts on the ground which I can not check, but they sound reasonable. These things are going on in the Syrian-Turkish border region. You are surely right. I am not a government public official. So I can't check this theory. But this will be a pragmatic approach for enabling the facilitarian and logistic process of funding and supplying the Syrian opposition parties and the Free Syrian army with political, social-ecpnomical and militairy means. Ofcourse the same counts for the Russian, Chinese and Iranian support for the regime. This is a good example These development and humanitarian aid developments and statisticis or figures are beyond my reach. I know (unfortunately) to little about that. I hope that a combined efford of the United Nations, Unicef, Amesty International, Doctors without Borders, the International Red Cross and Red Crescent can give some relief. You are probably right Karl. You know Syria better than I (we?) do? Yes, unfortunately! No it is not, but I fear that some Christians in Syria will be probably also involved in crual acts, to protect themselves, or as part of regime forces. (army, secret services or the militia) We agree on this subject too, Karl |
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Post by karl on Jul 2, 2012 15:45:27 GMT -7
Pieter
Thank you for your kind words, very much appreciated. You have though, given me to much honour of that which I do not deserve. For my work requires eating out of the public trough provided by the brow sweat of our working people. For I produce nothing, and create nothing, just my work.
Whilst on the other hand, your self: For your requires the skill you have obtained with that of your natural instincts of understanding that of which has not been spoken, to recognize truth. With this, the skills of interview to obtain correctly, various arenas of information as a source to report accurately of any issue of information as to your work.
Pieter, this is a highly sought for skill that is in short supply. For many may be skilled in acquiring information sources, to obtain that of which to report, but,,,lack the skill of placing into a foremate of the written word. Whilst with others, it is to them of the written word but not the ability to go into the field and locate the sources for acquiring.
You are skilled in all these fields of the arena that you work in. It matters not to have traveled in the areas of conflict to obtain the field information, for it is much the wiser to obtain what others have experienced and to record correctly that of what you wish to seek for your work...
In short: A person has not to die, to know what death is
Whilst though, if to be assigned to travel to the source of issues to report upon, yes, I do agree with you, it is good to be in the field of thorns to report the degree of sting. For this is first hand observation, and with that, will go the spice of the stew as to taste upon the tongue of description.
It is just the risk if for nothing other then experience.
Karl
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Post by pieter on Aug 4, 2012 5:23:49 GMT -7
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