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Post by pieter on Nov 2, 2012 13:32:11 GMT -7
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Post by pieter on Nov 2, 2012 13:36:27 GMT -7
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Post by Eric on Nov 3, 2012 8:06:23 GMT -7
I can understand how people start to get angry when there is suffering involved, but sometimes it seems like people get too angry too quickly, almost as if they want all services restored to normal immediately after a storm passes. I lived through two hurricanes when I was younger in Massachusetts, and both times we lost electricity for a whole week. It never occurred to my parents to become furious at the president or other leaders because of it - they understood that there's a lot of damage that must be taken care of before electric wires can be replaced on my street.
But today... a record-setting hurricane passes through and everyone wants all services restored immediately. It's just not realistic.
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Post by karl on Nov 3, 2012 9:56:41 GMT -7
It would so appear once the fear has subsided, then anger will set in. One situation that is both a blessing and a curse of our respective societies: We live in a fail safe world of protection. We have our insurance policies, we have our police, we have our respective governments to aid and protect us.
But, once such vast devastation comes about, and our support systems fail, people do not fully understand reality, and reality is they must for a time, become self sufficient.
In this manner, is the use of intelligence. For the sewage will be down, then use the garbage bags and a bucket. The water mains do not work...ok, there is considerable amount of stored water in the hot water tank. Food is not available...this is a problem.
For the former grocery out-lets will be looted and very dangerous to approach, for people become panicky and will resort to violence. In this manner, it is conservation of food resources.
Personally, I do not feel people are the problem. For they are only reacting to a situation they are not trained or accustomed to meet on equal terms. With this, is not to place hot coals upon the fore head of service providers for failures that are self evident.
The American infrastructure is very well oiled, and will provide the necessary services and protection as it proceeds deeper into the effect areas. But it is not a mix with water, shake and pour.
Of the previous day, military airlift has been working with air transport of electrical service trucks to the effected areas. Some fire suppression crews have been sent back to their areas as not needed.
It is of the few loud mouths that are concentrated upon by some media news people that pretend to be the voice of the people in loudly expressing them selves to a captive audience.
It is a terrible devastation that has occurred, but it is to the will of the people effected to carry through with strength and courage.
Karl
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Post by Nictoshek on Nov 3, 2012 10:54:34 GMT -7
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Post by Jaga on Nov 3, 2012 11:17:15 GMT -7
+++Yeah I guess they're pretty PISSED+++
at what? Mother Nature?
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Post by Nictoshek on Nov 3, 2012 14:00:52 GMT -7
 They're PISSED about this too as well: FEMA Taps Private Vendors to Meet Sandy Victim's Needsby Michael Patrick Leahy 3 Nov 2012 FEMA's vaunted "lean forward" strategy that called for advanced staging of supplies for emergency distribution failed to live up to its billing in the immediate aftermath of Hurricane Sandy. In fact, the agency appears to have been completely unprepared to distribute bottled water to Hurricane Sandy victims when the storm hit this Monday. In contrast to its stated policy, FEMA failed to have any meaningful supplies of bottled water -- or any other supplies, for that matter -- stored in nearby facilities as it had proclaimed it would on its website. This was the case despite several days advance warning of the impending storm. FEMA only began to solicit bids for vendors to provide bottled water for distribution to Hurricane Sandy victims on Friday, sending out a solicitation request for 2.3 million gallons of bottled water at the FedBizOpps.gov website. Bidding closed at 4:30 pm eastern. Breitbart News spoke with contracting officer Annette Wright, who said that the winning vendor would be required to deliver the 2.3 million gallons of bottled water to an East Farmingdale, New York distribution center that was listed in the solicitation request by Monday, November 5th. Ms. Wright was unable to say when or how the water would be delivered from the distribution center to needy Hurricane Sandy victims in New Jersey, Staten Island, Long Island, and other boroughs of New York City. Vendors "are currently being evaluated," she said, and when the vendors are announced, they will provide information on how local distribution will occur. |
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Post by kaima on Nov 3, 2012 14:07:48 GMT -7
I must agree with you Eric.
We must also remember that New Yorkers are Grade A complainers and demanders. They will complain about most things that people in the rest of the world will accept as fine or perfectly acceptable.
I was once having a salmon dinner served family style in a tourist restaurant. I was still looking for a house to rent for the summer. The manager rented to us (3 or 4 of us) reluctantly, though they had room. Construction workers had a bad reputation for manners and drinking.
At this one salmon dinner one fellow at the far end of the table complained about how bad the salmon was. I was still working at getting over shyness, so I planned what I would say, and as he continued to poison the atmosphere for the other tourists, I finally spoke up.
I started by identifying him as a new Yorker, both by accent and scripted (quite predictable) method of complaining. He confirmed that.
I had been in Alaska 11 years at the time, and had already heard in this village that the salmon was local and fresh, and it was cooked by a local Eskimo lady who enjoyed the reputation as the best cook in town. I finished by saying I have had a lot of salmon and found this quite good myself. (we also have 5 kinds of salmon in Alaska, whereas the Atlantic has only one wimpy salmon I avoid eating).
Happily that turned the atmosphere around and raised a few compliments from the other tourists at the table, and dinner was completed in a good and enjoyable fashion. The manager happened to listen in and was smiling when I glanced her way.
New Yorkers are Grade A complainers.
I wonder how they would have reacted with the response delivered to New Orleans, "The Big Easy".
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Post by kaima on Nov 3, 2012 14:43:08 GMT -7
The news media and politicians are partially to blame - to a small degree - for the dissatisfaction. From the beginning the television reports have talked in terms of short times for recovery, days for electricity, weeks for recovery. They are NUTS.
It will be weeks, under the best of circumstances, before electricity will be fully restored, and likely the same for the subways. I am talking aout the region, nut just NY City. It will be months for them to get over the worst of it, and years to fully recover.
To pretend otherwise, to report otherwise, is irresponsible.
The latest great problem I noted was a weather prediction of a cold front coming in with in a week, with temperatures around 30 at night and 40's during the day. That weather will pose a major problem for a large part of the population.
Good luck to them and to us. There are limits to human endeavours.
Anyone for nation building at home?
Now to go home and write a check to the Salvation Army, my favorite disaster relief organization and charity.
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Post by karl on Nov 3, 2012 17:53:48 GMT -7
Well, I see I have been singing in the wrong choir once again, even to the use of wrong book with the New York people.
I must admit to my failure of recognition of a stupid people. In my minds eye, I was in the mistaken belief these people as Americans had the innate ability to pull together and overcome what ever odds. I was very much wrong.
For of the presented photos of marching protesting crowds is self evidence of the misplaced priorities. For in self by the large accumulation of people, with the power of many many hands to help them selves in clearing/repairing/cleaning the mess.
They need not tools given to them, they need not out side help, for if they have the energy to march in mass and complain of their situation. Then they have the ability to do it them selves.
What is apparent and present is: Lack of self discipline and leadership....For what is so difficult to form work cells for each district? What is so difficult to simply work??
Where is the famous American ability to succeed over all odds??
For I certainly do not see it here..
If my post is offensive, please do understand, it is not against any member here in what so ever. I am only speaking my deep concern for these people. It is a hurtfull thing to see the hurt of other people in such a situation who are doing nothing constructive to help them selves.
It is as watching a fine ship sink to the bottom for nothing when the crew could have manned the pumps and kept afloat.
Karl
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Post by Jaga on Nov 4, 2012 4:36:34 GMT -7
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Post by kaima on Nov 4, 2012 9:12:35 GMT -7
Jaga,
Stossel makes some good points, but I differ from him on some points.
We really should re-think just what we, the government, insure and how. reportedly 80% of the US federally subsidized flood insurance claims are REGULARLY in the 5 Gulf states, down around New Orleans.
If all of our losses are regularly concentrated in one area, how intelligent is it that we keep going back there? That we go back and make the same mistakes so we can rebuild the same way it failed once or more?
Then again, if these natural disasters continue to happen with the new frequency that everyone is talking about today (does that express doubt about Climate Change? Why not?) then how sensible is it that we continue with the Old Insurance program? That would seem to be a recipe for going broke as the seas rise.
I have stated before that I do not believe in rebuilding underwater cities, such as New Orleans.
However, contrary to Stossel, I have good faith in FEMA and believe it is necessary and proper, in one form or another. I have faith in FEMA in its present form. The recent failure in New Orleans was due to Bush appointing a political head when we need a professional, a technocrat, if you will. I work with the Search and Rescue system here in Alaska and am quite impressed with the professionalism and expertise of the mostly volunteer organizations. I can also appreciate the confusion in any disaster and the many, many conflicting demands in even the smallest of disasters. That is why we need practiced professionals.
By the way, calling in the Corps of Engineers means calling in our largest and best CONTRACTING agency in the US government. The work they are doing is all through private contractors. Among the most important people are the Contracting Officers as well as Real Estate people along with the more recognized Engineers. I worked with them for 10 years in Europe, and have mixed feelings about their corporate culture. While they are big and effective, I was hoping in 1990 that Al Gore would start with them in his process to "Reinvent Government". If he could have changed them, he would have proven they could really change government! But they are a necessary dinosaur, as we see today.
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Post by kaima on Nov 4, 2012 9:34:15 GMT -7
Out of today's NY Tiimes:
Man Behind FEMA’s Makeover Built Philosophy on PreparationBy JENNIFER STEINHAUER and MICHAEL S. SCHMIDT Published: November 3, 2012 www.nytimes.com/2012/11/04/us/the-man-behind-femas-post-katrina-makeover.html?hp WASHINGTON — America may know W. Craig Fugate as the slightly weary-looking guy on CNN explaining the ins and outs of flood insurance. But in the world of emergency management, he is known for his Waffle House matrix. Mr. Fugate, the head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, learned in his many years of battling natural disasters that fully operational Waffle Houses mean that a community is doing O.K. But if those same restaurants are serving half menus, it means that power has been lost. And if their doors are closed, it signifies that things are really bad. “It’s a shorthand for us to get in there and quickly get a snapshot,” Mr. Fugate said Friday in an interview at FEMA headquarters in Washington. “Is the Waffle House open? Everything normal there?” Mr. Fugate acknowledges that the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy poses a challenge to the Waffle House matrix because the chain, popular in the South, has so few restaurants in the Northeast. In place of Waffle Houses, he said, he has looked to Starbucks and Dunkin’ Donuts as bellwethers, but he said he did not believe that they had the same philosophies about reopening quickly. “Waffle House has a very simple operational philosophy: get open. They never close. They run 24 hours a day,” he said. “They have a corporate philosophy that if there is a hurricane or a storm, they try and get their stores open. It don’t matter if they don’t have power, it don’t matter if you don’t have gas. They have procedures that if they can get a generator in there, they’ll get going. They’ll make coffee with bottled water.” After the agency’s poor handling of Hurricane Katrina in 2005, FEMA was the Homer Simpson of federal agencies, a symbol of pitiful incompetence. The storm even created a national punch line after President George W. Bush said at a news conference that his FEMA director, Michael D. Brown, was doing a “heck of a job” even as the agency was bungling its response. While FEMA is still viewed with caution — and in some places in New York City in the last week, with continued scorn — Mr. Fugate has done much to shore up its image. That is in part simply through self-flagellation, as he races around storm-savaged regions, ticks off statistics about water levels and procures baby formula for a mother in need. Mr. Fugate — or Mr. Emergency Management, as President Obama referred to him last week — is a straightforward, honey-toned former director of Florida emergency operations who judges the post-storm condition of communities by the viability of their local economic activity. His hyper-focus on local preparation long before disasters hit has been the key to his success, according to several people who have worked with him. “He speaks the language of first responders because he was one of them,” said Alan Rubin, who oversaw Florida’s economic recovery after Hurricane Andrew. “He doesn’t have to be brought up to speed on what FEMA can do and when they can do it.” In an administration long on Ivy League degrees and Washington pedigrees, Mr. Fugate, who wears cowboy boots, stands out. Both of his parents died before he graduated from high school. He never finished college, started out as a paramedic and spent most of his career in Florida. “He is very down to earth, and that always helped him out a lot,” said Dwayne Phillips, an information technology expert who worked at FEMA when Mr. Fugate was the director of the Florida Division of Emergency Management, a job he held until 2009, when Mr. Obama appointed him to run FEMA. Citing Mr. Fugate’s Waffle House theory, Mr. Phillips said: “He would talk about stuff like that, and had this ‘O.K., that’s a problem, let’s address it and move on forward’ way about him. He doesn’t get caught up in the weeds.” Mr. Fugate is known for his “lightning bolt” drills, in which he surprises employees midday with a fake disaster and forces them to respond. He peppers each day with a short phrase to keep responders focused. On Friday, he was pushing “People, Power and Pumps.” He is known in the field for positioning equipment ahead of time so that states know immediately how many cots and water bottles are needed when a disaster hits, which proved a huge problem during Hurricane Katrina. Part 2 of this article is at www.nytimes.com/2012/11/04/us/the-man-behind-femas-post-katrina-makeover.html?pagewanted=2&hp |
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Post by Jaga on Nov 4, 2012 10:24:24 GMT -7
Ron,
I agree that Stossel made some good points. Just like in New Orleans people should not built too close to the sea. Still, his idea that the role of the government is only military.... hard to agree on.
What about schools, what about roads and infrastructure?
+++I have stated before that I do not believe in rebuilding underwater cities, such as New Orleans.+++
sure, but the loss of human life in thousands was too much.
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Post by karl on Nov 4, 2012 10:38:08 GMT -7
Jaga
Thank you for your thoughts and effort in research. For your efforts were very well rewarded in results, very much appreciated.
I think perhaps the apex of this issue, is a conflicting cultural differences between many Americans and us. We as North Germans and our neighbour Holland, are accustomed to the violence of the North Sea with the winter storms. And as a result of hundreds of years of survival, we work together with our respective governments in resolving the issues of the land and sea.
In this manner, we build for to make harmless, heavy weather and land wash with various breakwaters and inlets into our harbours that lessen damage from storm surges and heavy tidal currants.
We may be critical of actions our government will take, but it is our government and we respect out leadership.
Jaga, I do appreciate your work in providing the url video with Mr. Stossel as the interviewed of his personal experience with his home being storm washed out to sea. With this, his flood insurance as provided through FEMA {Federal Agency}, and received full payment for his losses.
What is quite noticeable though, is when asked by the interviewer if he {Mr. Stossel} had repayed FEMA for the payment. Mr. Stossel replied: NO, he gave it to a private agency for the reason that the government would just wast it..
At present, there is a very wide conflict in this attitude of Mr. Stossel. For one, he {Stossel} had previously applied for flood insurance through the programmes of FEMA, with the implied trust that if a flood situation should in future occur. FEMA would abide by responsibility of the contract, to reimburse Stossel for his damages. This, FEMA had done by virtue of protection to the insured.
By his statement {Stossel} does not trust his government and the monies given to him was a waste of money.
Now, what sense is there to that type of mindset?
We have on one side of the Roman coin, Americas demanding Government help in their time of need. Whilst on the other hand, Americans do not trust their government and with this, demand Government stay out of their affairs...
The USA is a democratic Republic and the leadership is by popular vote by the citizens. If then the Government is wrong, then this relates to the fact that the voting citizens are wrong. In this manner, we have two wrongs that do not make up a right.
I am sorry, but there appears to be a break down of the process of reality with these Americans. The facts are to that of what they are.
Karl
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