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Post by pieter on Nov 15, 2012 11:12:27 GMT -7
 Rockets strike Tel Aviv area; three Israelis killed in attack on south Two Israeli women embrace each other next to a bomb shelter after a rocket from the Gaza Strip was intercepted in Kiryat Malachi, southern Israel, 15 November 2012. The Israeli police said three civilians had died in the southern town of Kiryat Malachai from rockets fired into the Jewish state from Gaza following a series of targeted strikes. Israel said it had attacked more than 200 targets in Gaza from the air and sea since 14 November. The targets included rocket launching sites and pits, an army spokesman in Tel Aviv said. (Credit: EPA)Rockets strike Holon, Rishon Letzion; IDF: Expect a night without calm in central Israel' three soldiers wounded in attack on Eshkol region; Military sources: more than 250 rockets fired by Gaza militants explode in Israel since beginning of operation, Iron Dome intercepts Israel launched a military operation in Gaza on Wednesday, killing Hamas military chief Ahmed Jabari in an airstrike. Following four days of escalation on the Israel-Gaza border, Israel renewed its policy of targeted assassinations and killed the head of Hamas' military wing. Jabari, 52, was the man behind the abduction of IDF soldier Gilad Shalit in 2006.  Ahmed Jabari, leader of Qassam Brigades in the Gaza Strip,
oversees a prisoner exchange with Israel near the Rafah border
crossing on October 18, 2011. The landmark swap freed abducted
Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit after five years in Hamas hands.
(MAHMUD HAMS/AFP/Getty Images) Hamas' military chief in Gaza Ahmed Jabari and Gilad Shalit.LIVE BLOG:8:02 P.M. IDF source says air assault on Gaza will be renewed over the coming hours, adding that the IDF has approved plans for the next stage of the operation. 8:00 P.M. IDF says it has hit 250 sites in Gaza since the beginning of the current operation, while 274 rockets have hit Israel. 7:35 P.M. White House Press Secretary Jay Carney says President Obama condemns the rockets fired at Israel; "there is no justification for these cowardly acts." 7:30 P.M. Israel Police confirm that two missiles fired at Tel Aviv area landed in open areas. 7:23 P.M. Five more rockets intercepted by Iron Dome systems over Be'er Sheva. In total, there have been 274 rockets fired and 105 intercepted. The IDF has attacked 250 targets in Gaza. 7:05 P.M. IDF spokesman says no missiles landed on ground in Tel Aviv, adds that residents of central Israel should prepare for a night that "won't be calm". 6:57 P.M. Rocket warning siren goes off in Be'er Sheva. (Yanir Yagna) 6:55 P.M. Islamic Jihad claims responsibility for rocket fired at Tel Aviv. (Reuters) 6:44 P.M. Rocket lands in Holon, just south of Tel Aviv. 6:40 P.M. Names of casualties in Kiryat Malakhi rocket attack released: Mira Sharf, 29-years-old, and Aharon Samadja, 46-years old. (Yaniv Kubovich) 6:38 P.M. Rocket warning sirens sound in Tel Aviv and Bnei Brak, for first time since Gulf War in 1991. 6:38 P.M. Four rockets fall in open areas in western Negev. No wounded or damage. (Yanir Yagna) 6:30 P.M. Egyptian prime minister and security officials to make one-day visit to Gaza, according to Egyptian cabinet minister. (Reuters) 6:22 P.M. Classes canceled again on Friday for all kids living within 40 km of Gaza. 6:08 P.M. Iron Dome intercepts two rockets over Be'er Sheva. (Yanir Yagna) 5:00 P.M. Iron Dome shoots down rocket headed toward Ashdod. Warning sirens go off in Sderot. 4:48 P.M. Two rockets fall near Rishon Letzion, some 12 km south of Tel Aviv. No casualties reported. 4:52 P.M. Number of civilian casualties in Gaza rises to 15, according to Palestinian news agency Ma'an. 4:45 P.M. Rocket alert warning siren goes off in Rishon Letzion, south of Tel Aviv. Eyewitnesses report two blasts. 4:40 P.M. Five rockets fired from Gaza land in northwestern Negev, damaging buildings. Iron Dome missile defense system shoots down 5 rockets over Sderot. (Gili Cohen, Yanir Yagna) 3:53 P.M. IDF: Since beginning of Operation Pillar of Defense, Iron Dome systems intercepted 87 rockets, with 138 projectiles exploding in Israeli territory. IDF attacked 227 Gaza targets. 3:09 P.M. A barrage of 5 rockets fired at Eskhol Regional Council. All five exploded in open areas, no damage or casualties reported. (Haaretz) |
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Post by Jaga on Nov 15, 2012 11:17:32 GMT -7
Israel seems to be the biggest threat to the Middle East peace.
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Post by Eric on Nov 15, 2012 11:28:59 GMT -7
Israel seems to be the biggest threat to the Middle East peace. I agree with you. Unfortunately, Israel has 100% support from the United States, which means that Israel "can do no wrong" and everyone else is entirely to blame. It's a very dangerous situation. |
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Post by pieter on Nov 15, 2012 16:59:20 GMT -7
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Post by karl on Nov 15, 2012 17:32:01 GMT -7
I think perhaps this is an expected out come of the assassination of Ahmed Jabari. For at present and past, it would be problematical if his passing is morned other then those close to him.
What the cause and effect is: How will the Israeli public support their government? Will they provide support for the present party in the new elections? Or will they turn away for a new presence upon the horizons of a new day?
In as much to the Palestinians, they are as an unwanted step child with a presence that may not be ignored. It is a fact of life they are the brunt of all that is wrong in the area.
For better or worse though, these people must find solutions to help them selves, for it is to them to earn recognition, not Israel.
Karl
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Post by pieter on Nov 16, 2012 14:30:34 GMT -7
An eye for an eye, a tooth for a toothAn eye for an eye is the principle that a person who has injured another person is penalized to a similar degree, or according to other interpretations the victim receives the value of the injury in compensation. According to Jewish interpretations the victim in criminal law gets financial compensation based on the law of human equality eschewing mutilation and 'lex talionis'. Definition and methodsThe term lex talionis does not always and only refer to literal eye-for-an-eye codes of justice (see rather mirror punishment) but applies to the broader class of legal systems that specify formulaic penalties for specific crimes, which are thought to be fitting in their severity. Some propose that this was at least in part intended to prevent excessive punishment at the hands of either an avenging private party or the state. The most common expression of lex talionis is " an eye for an eye", but other interpretations have been given as well. Legal codes following the principle of lex talionis have one thing in common: prescribed 'fitting' counter punishment for an offence. In the famous legal code written by Hammurabi, the principle of exact reciprocity is very clearly used. For example, if a person caused the death of another person, the killer would be put to death (Hammurabi's code, §230). Under the right conditions, such as the ability for all actors to participate in an iterative fashion, the " eye for an eye" punishment system has a mathematical basis in the tit for tat game theory strategy. The simplest example is the " eye for an eye" principle. In that case, the rule was that punishment must be exactly equal to the crime. Conversely, the twelve tables of Rome merely prescribed particular penalties for particular crimes. The Anglo-Saxon legal code substituted payment of wergild for direct retribution: a particular person's life had a fixed value, derived from his social position; any homicide was compensated by paying the appropriate wergild, regardless of intent. Under the British Common Law, successful plaintiffs were entitled to repayment equal to their loss (in monetary terms). In the modern tort law system, this has been extended to translate non-economic losses into money as well. The meaning of the principle Eye for an Eye is that a person who has been injured by another person returns the offending action to the originator in compensation, or that an authority does so on behalf of the injured person. The exact Latin (lex talionis) to English translation of this phrase is actually " The law of retaliation." At the root of this principle is thatpurposes of the law is to provide equitable retribution. Abrahamic traditionsIn the Hammurabi Code and Hebrew Law, the “ eye for eye” was to restrict compensation to the value of the loss; in the Hammurabic code as being literal, and in the Hebrew Law applying monetarily. Thus, it might be better read ' only one eye for one eye'. The biblical phrase, " an eye for an eye", (עין תחת עין, ayin tachat ayin, literally ' an eye under an eye'), is a quotation from several passages of the Jewish Bible. JudaismIsaac Kalimi explains that the “ lex talionis" was humanized by the Rabbis who interpreted " an eye for an eye" to mean resonable pecuniary compensation. As in the case of the Babylonian ' lex talionis', ethical Judaism and humane Jewish jurisprudence replaces the peshat (literal meaning) of the written Torah. Pasachoff and Littman point to the reinterpretation of the lex talionis as an example of the ability of Pharisaic Judaism to " adapt to changing social and intellectual ideas." IslamThe Qur'an mentions the " eye for an eye" concept as being ordained for the Children of Israel ( The old Hebrews or Jews). The principle of Lex talionis in Islam is Qasas (قصاص) as mentioned in ( Qur'an 2:178) " O you who have believed, prescribed for you is legal retribution (Qasas) for those murdered - the free for the free, the slave for the slave, and the female for the female. But whoever overlooks from his brother anything, then there should be a suitable follow-up and payment to him with good conduct. This is an alleviation from your Lord and a mercy. But whoever transgresses after that will have a painful punishment.". Some Muslim nations, still apply the rule, in accordance with the Mosaic Law. In some countries that use Islamic law ( sharia), the " eye for an eye" rule is applied quite literally. “ In the Torah We prescribed for them a life for a life, an eye for an eye, a nose for a nose, an ear for an ear, a tooth for a tooth, an equal wound for a wound: if anyone forgoes this out of charity, it will serve as atonement for his bad deeds. Those who do not judge according to what God has revealed are doing grave wrong.” ( Qurʾān 5:45) Comment Pieter: I thought about this old 'biblical' principle when I watched this part of the Dutch news. nos.nl/video/441468-israeliers-willen-einde-aan-beschietingen-door-hamas.htmlThe Israeli man who lost his nephew, and who says in English, with a face marked with hatred:" It was my nephew, who was killed here. Now I want the Army to destroy Gaza, to destroy everybody; women, children, everybody. To kill them, they are terrorist!"
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Post by Jaga on Nov 16, 2012 14:48:49 GMT -7
I still don't see where there is here the math. 3 Israeli killed and 26 Palestinians, among them women and children.
If Israel want the war, let call it this way.
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Post by Jaga on Nov 16, 2012 15:00:08 GMT -7
This house in Israel looks really wealthy, if you take into account that Israel is such a small and overpopulated country. We should probably compare it to the Gaza citizens living standards....  |
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Post by pieter on Nov 16, 2012 15:08:29 GMT -7
I still don't see where there is here the math. 3 Israeli killed and 26 Palestinians, among them women and children. If Israel want the war, let call it this way. I don't like to say this Jaga, but in the reality of the Middle-east and next to that large parts of the first world, the Darwinist principle counts " The Survival of the fittests", and that means that the strong one survives and the weak one perishes. The Israeli's have a superior army, economy and political system (due to their technology, connections with both the USA and Russia -The Russian jews of Israel: One million or more), and their strong ties to the West (simply because many of their ancesters come from the West, and many Western christians, leaders, politicians and civilians are connected to the Israel by heart, mind and spirit). Not many Westerners are connected to Palestine, Arabs or the Islam (faith, culture and political system). |
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Post by Jaga on Nov 16, 2012 23:03:51 GMT -7
Pieter,
I agree. I think that Gaza territory will not exist in 20-40 years. Maybe this would be better since the life of these people is hopeless and cruel. They live like in the camp, with food thanks to UN, US etc. I hope that Palestinians would modernize if they would go to live in Jordan or Lebanon.
Israel will survive. Frankly, I want Israel to be there, I just do not like their war-mongering and arrogant leaders. I also do not want US tax payer money to go there.
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Post by Jaga on Nov 17, 2012 0:21:44 GMT -7
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Post by kaima on Nov 17, 2012 2:41:36 GMT -7
I now look upon the Israeli fight in the mid-east as a modern version of the 100 year war. It will outlast my lifetime, and sadly that of many victims.
Therefore I find no sense in following it or worrying about it.
Kai
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Post by pieter on Nov 17, 2012 8:42:41 GMT -7
Pieter, I agree. I think that Gaza territory will not exist in 20-40 years. Maybe this would be better since the life of these people is hopeless and cruel. They live like in the camp, with food thanks to UN, US etc. I hope that Palestinians would modernize if they would go to live in Jordan or Lebanon. Israel will survive. Frankly, I want Israel to be there, I just do not like their war-mongering and arrogant leaders. I also do not want US tax payer money to go there. Jaga, I think we share many values, political ideas and maybe also how we look at the Middle-East. Fact is that a lot of Westerners; christians, jews and ahteists (secular-humanists) have a distorched and wrong image about Israel and Palestine. Israel has to to stay, the right to exist and has a place in the world. From a human, ethical (moral), religious/spiritual, social-cultural, political (geopolitical and thus diplomatic), financial-economical and Western perspective. The nation, country and people have old Aramaic, Hebrew and thus semitic roots in the Levantine. Although there are things that are wrong, like discrimination of minorities, oppression of people in occupied territories, xenophobia, a gap between rich and poor, and a society that is taken hostage by fear, paranoia and danger (the threat of traffic accidents and terrorism) it is a Jewish state with a multi-cultural society (a melting pot of cultures, peoples and thus ethnicities). Several friends of mine have visited the country and said that being there and experiancing life there is different than the image we get from the country in the Netherlands. One, political correct, very leftwing, Dutch artist couple (with their children) (Feminist, socialist and Pro-Cuba, to show their viewpoints) went to Israel and mentioned the fact that Jewish and Arab culture are next to eachother, and the three Abrahamic religions visible (the Sinagogue's, Mosques and churches), and that street names are in two languages and sometimes three languages. (Hebrew, Arab and English, but mostly just Hebrew and Arab). In the same time I have to say that these friends were not anti-Israel or radical Pro-Palestinain, like many Leftists in Europe and the USA. Another jewish friend of mine who visited Israel; Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, Tiberias, the Jordan river and etc., told me she experianced both the influence of Judaism, the presence of the Orthodox faith and the Sabbath (saturday many shops were closed), as the ethnic, cultural diversity within Judaism itself and between Jews and Arabs. In her opinion there is a segregation between Jews and Arabs in Israel. She told me jews live in Jewish Cities, towns, villages, urban agglomerations and settlements. She saw the differences between the Western, White, Ashkenazi (often white, tall, blond, blue eyed ' Silver jews' like they call them in the USA) jews with Polish, Russian, German and American roots, and the darker, smaller built, more semitic looking (like the Arabs) Middle-eastern Mizrahi and Sephardic jews. I read and heard about the discrimination of Palestinians, Israeli arabs and Arab looking oriental jews from the Middle-east. The fact that Israel is surrounded by Arab countries and has an influential 20% Arab minority means that on the long term Israel will be integrated into the Middle-east. Not only because of the Hebrew culture (Hebrew is very closely related to Arab), but also because of the merging of Middle-eastern (Arab-jewish, Persian jewish, Berber-Jewish -North-Africa- and Kurd-Jewish) Jewish culture with the culture of the Western-Jews (the jews with ancestral roots in Poland, Russia, Germany, America, the Netherlands, France, Great-Britain and etc.). The crazy thing is that the jews and arabs who fight each other for life or death in the same time live, study and work together in and outside Israel. In hospitals, in offices, factories, restaurants, pubs and shops. Many Palestinians speak Hebrew, because they worked in Israel before the second Intifadah, or because they cooperate with Israeli's in the West-bank where Israeli jews and Palestinian arabs built both Jewish settlements and Arab neighbourhoods and towns and Israeli-Arabs in Arab ones. The Israeli's and Arabs are interdependent, because they live next to eachother and have political, financial-economical ties and historical connections, whether they like it or not. It is very sad that due to 60 years of tension, bloodshed, propaganda (on both sides), hatred (Palestinian and Arab anti-jewish anti-semitism and in the same time anti-Arab Islamophobe hatred for Arabs amongst the Israeli's), xenophobia and political radicalization poisons the hearts and minds of many young Israeli's and Palestinians (as well as the older generations). The Palestinian nation is also created due to oppression, war, civil-war and the conflicts of the Palestinian Sunni-Muslim and Christian Arabs of the Palestinian land of British and Ottoman Palestine with Israeli jews and Druze, Jordanian Beduins, Lebanese Arab Christians and others and Iraqi Sunni Muslims who harassed the Iraqi Palestinians after the collapse of the Saddam Hussein, Iraqi Baath regime in 2003. The internal Palestinian bloodshed is also older than the Fatah-Hamas rivalry and conflict. I think about the decades old shift within the PLO, between the Egypt and Tunesian backed Jassir Arafat Fatah fraction and the radical Syrian backed Palestinian fractions; The Rejectionist Front ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rejectionist_Front ), consisting of the There is some truth in this speechThe Israeli perspectivePalestinian civil warJune 14 2007Palestinians vs PalestiniansLinks: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Jewsen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizrahi_Jews |
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Post by pieter on Nov 17, 2012 11:01:11 GMT -7
This house in Israel looks really wealthy, if you take into account that Israel is such a small and overpopulated country. We should probably compare it to the Gaza citizens living standards.... Jaga, You have a few very rich people overthere and a large group of poor people (both Arab and jewish). My *jewish friend told me. You have a group of Israeli Industrial & Business families (a sort of Patriarchate) who from the elite class of Israel. Pieter P.S.- By the way, she is Pro-Israel, prefers Jewish Orthodoxy above Progressive, conservative and Reform Judaism. But she is also critical about things. She told me she already felt tension in September 2012 when she was in Tel Aviv. There were already airraids and sirens back then. (in the distance) |
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Post by pieter on Nov 17, 2012 11:55:54 GMT -7
Pieter, I agree. I think that Gaza territory will not exist in 20-40 years. Maybe this would be better since the life of these people is hopeless and cruel. They live like in the camp, with food thanks to UN, US etc. I hope that Palestinians would modernize if they would go to live in Jordan or Lebanon. Israel will survive. Frankly, I want Israel to be there, I just do not like their war-mongering and arrogant leaders. I also do not want US tax payer money to go there. Jaga, I don't know if the Gaza territory will exist in 20-40 years. Gaza has been in many hands it's history. Gaza's historyGaza during it's history has been in Egyptian, Canaanite, Israelite, Assyrian, Persian, Greek, Judean (the Hasmonean dynasty), Roman, Arab-Muslim, Mongolian, Crusader, Ottoman, British, Israeli and Palestinian hands. Rashidun Caliphate (first Islamic rulers in 635 CE), the Abbasid Caliphate (the 10th century CE) rebuilt Gaza after a war between local arab tribes had destroyed the city and area. It was the first Muslim rule over Gaza. European Crusaders conquered the city from the Fatimids in 1100 and King Baldwin III built a castle used by the Knights Templar in Gaza in 1149. He also had the Great Mosque converted into the Cathedral of Saint John. In 1154, Arab traveller al-Idrisi wrote Gaza " is today very populous and in the hands of the Crusaders." In 1187 the Ayyubid forces, led by Saladin, captured Gaza and later destroyed the city's fortifications in 1191. Richard the Lionheart apparently refortified the city in 1192, but the walls were dismantled again as a result of the Treaty of Ramla agreed upon months later in 1193. The Ayyubid period of rule ended in 1260, after the Mongols under Hulagu Khan completely destroyed Gaza, which became his southernmost conquest. Ottoman ruleIn 1516 Gaza—at the time, a small town with an inactive port, ruined buildings and reduced trade—was incorporated into the Ottoman Empire. The Ottoman army quickly and efficiently crushed a small-scale uprising, and the local population generally welcomed them as fellow Sunni Muslims. Starting in the early 19th century, Gaza was culturally dominated by neighboring Egypt; Muhammad Ali of Egypt conquered Gaza in 1832. American scholar Edward Robinson visited the city in 1838, describing it as a " thickly populated" town larger than Jerusalem, with its Old City lying upon a hilltop, while its suburbs laid on the nearby plain. The city benefited from trade and commerce because of its strategic position on the caravan route between Egypt and northern Syria as well as from producing soap and cotton for trade with the government, local Arab tribes, and the Bedouin of Wadi Arabah and Ma'an. Modern era Gaza after surrender to British forces, 1918While leading the Allied Forces during World War I, the British won control of the city during the Third Battle of Gaza in 1917. After the war, Gaza was included in the British Mandate of Palestine. In the 1930s and 1940s, Gaza underwent major expansion. New neighborhoods were built along the coast and the southern and eastern plains. International organizations and missionary groups funded most of this construction. In the 1947 United Nations Partition Plan, Gaza was assigned to be part of an Arab state in western Palestine but was occupied by Egypt following the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. Gaza's growing population was augmented by an influx of refugees fleeing nearby cities, towns and villages that were captured by Israel. In 1957, Egyptian president Gamal Abdel Nasser made a number of reforms in Gaza, which included expanding educational opportunities and the civil services, providing housing, and establishing local security forces. Gaza was occupied by Israel during the 1967 Six-Day War following the defeat of the Egyptian Army. Frequent conflicts have erupted between Palestinians and the Israeli authorities in the city since the 1970s. The tensions lead to the First Intifada in 1987. Gaza was a center of confrontation during this uprising,[40] and economic conditions in the city worsened.[56] Palestinian control Fatah demonstration in Gaza in 2007 (in Hamas dominated territory). Hamas tried to prevent this demonstration, but could not stop the people with it's Hamas police force. Fatah loyalists were stopped, beaten, dragged out of their cars, but they continued and held their demonstration. (Source: www.anjameulenbelt.nl/weblog/2007/11/15/gaza-brief-van-fatma/ )In September 1993, leaders of Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) signed the Oslo Accords. The agreement called for Palestinian administration of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank town of Jericho, which was implemented in May 1994. Israeli forces withdrew from Gaza, leaving a new Palestinian National Authority (PNA) to administer and police the city. The PNA, led by Yasser Arafat, chose Gaza as its first provincial headquarters. The newly established Palestinian National Council held its inaugural session in Gaza in March 1996.  Palestinians in a Gaza neighborhood during the 2008-09 Gaza WarIn 2005, Israel withdrew its troops from the Gaza Strip and removed the thousands of Israelis who had settled in the territory. See Israel's unilateral disengagement plan of 2004. Since the Israeli withdrawal, Hamas has been engaged in a sometimes violent power struggle with its rival Palestinian organization Fatah. On January 25, 2006, Hamas won a surprise victory in the elections for the Palestinian Legislative Council, the legislature of the Palestinian National Authority. In 2007, Hamas overthrew Fatah forces in the Gaza Strip and Hamas members were dismissed from the PNA government in the West Bank in response. Currently, Hamas has de facto control of the city and Strip.  Jewish settlers cry during scuffles with soldiers and police in the Neve Dekalim settlement in the Gush Katif bloc of Jewish settlements in the southern Gaza Strip August 16, 2005.[Reuters]In March 2008, a coalition of human rights groups charged that the Israeli blockade of the city had caused the humanitarian situation in Gaza to have reached its worst point since Israel occupied the territory in the 1967 Six-Day War, and that Israeli air strikes targeting militants in the densely populated areas have often killed bystanders as well. In 2008, Israel responded to heavy rocket fire on its civilians with an operation in Gaza. Israel stated the strikes were in response to repetitive rocket and mortar attacks from the Gaza Strip into Israel since 2005, while the Palestinians stated that they were responding to Israel's military excursions and blockade of the Gaza Strip. In November 2012, a new offensive was launched against Gaza in response to rockets fired on Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. The present conflict caused deaths, wounds and terror on both sides. Israel is massing troops at the Gazan border and launched air attacks on Gaza. Drones constantly fly over Gaza to find possible targets for attacks. Hamas, Islamic Jihad, the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade and the Popular Peoples Committees and Salafist militia have launched hundreds of rockets on Israel. Listen to the representative of the Spanish Communist party, to the meeting of this Marxist-Leninist, secular palestinian Nationalist organisation, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)War in GazaCheers, Pieter |
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