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Post by pieter on May 6, 2006 3:27:52 GMT -7
Heinrich Heine is one of my favorite European poets. This is a German poem about may and love. Hope that you can open yourself to the poetry of a foreign language. (Does English speaking people understand German?)
Im wunderschönen Monat Mai
Im wunderschönen Monat Mai Im wunderschönen Monat Mai Als alle Knospen sprangen, Da ist in meinem Herzen Die Liebe aufgegangen.
Im wunderschönen Monat Mai, Als alle Vögel sangen, Da hab ich ihr gestanden Mein Sehnen und Verlangen
(English)
In the wonderful month of may In the wonderful month of may When all the buds sprang, There in my heart Love has opened itself.
In the wonderful month of may When all birds sang, The I have confessed to you my senses and longing.
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Post by bescheid on May 7, 2006 7:48:49 GMT -7
pieter
Heirich Heine was a wonderful poet/writer. And that of which you presented was a moving example of his works. As a romantic, I find also of his many other works as very moving.
Charles
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Post by pieter on May 7, 2006 10:45:45 GMT -7
Actually my favorite poem of mine is Die Loreley, at my birtday in 2005 it was sung at an underground art party in a factory of Arnhem by a grilfriend and her mother to me. That was a wonderful experience.
Die Loreley
Ich weiß nicht was soll es bedeuten, Daß ich so traurig bin; Ein Märchen aus alten Zeiten, Das kommt mir nicht aus dem Sinn.
Die Luft ist kühl und es dunkelt, Und ruhig fließt der Rhein; Der Gipfel des Berges funkelt Im Abendsonnenschein.
Die schönste Jungfrau sitzet Dort oben wunderbar; Ihr goldnes Geschmeide blitzet, Sie kämmt ihr goldenes Haar.
Sie kämmt es mit goldenem Kamme Und singt ein Lied dabei; Das hat eine wundersame, Gewaltige Melodei.
Den Schiffer im kleinen Schiffe Ergreift es mit wildem Weh; Er schaut nicht die Felsenriffe, Er schaut nur hinauf in die Höh.
Ich glaube, die Wellen verschlingen Am Ende Schiffer und Kahn; Und das hat mit ihrem Singen Die Lore-Ley getan.
Yesterday evening I went to an evening of heavy German poetry in Arnhem organised by an art historian, a girlfriend of a friend of mine and a girlfriend of here, an art model, theatrical actress and singer. It was a wonderful evening with serious and humoristic moment (people like to mock with their neigbours). They had heavy German poetry with Goethe, Schiller, and the black poetry of Paul Celan. Next to that there was a classical painist who played Brahms and Schubert, with the singing of the actress, model in which wonderful old house the Kulturabend was held. After that there was a sort of bizar Cabaretesk "fake" quiz, Das Magisches Spotlicht mit kwismaster Bad von Hammern-Klemmern (exellently performed by a Dutch actor), accompanied by Dutch girls dressed as German mädchen, who where called die Lichtscheinmädel (Flashlight girls), based on the German television shows, with Heino like (platinum blond) showmasters. After that there was a humoristic Dereck voice over movie, with Dutch improvised voices (a wink to the Geraman voice over in Foreign movies). The story ofcourse took a totally differant course, and the little cultural crowd was laughing very hard. (In my student time we loved to watch German television, turn off the sound and talk the German texts ourselves, which gave hilarious situations). It was a great cultural night, with a touch of the German roaring twetnties in the stile of the presentation, and the combination of serious German poetry and music and humor. I enjoyed myself and hope that there will be another German literary or culture night. It was so nice, because it is so scarse here, everything is dominated by the American or Anglo-saxon mass culture, so that German, French and Central European culture has no place here. At the end of the night everybody was dancing on very good German music of the Neue Deutsche Welle. Kraftwerk, Nina Hagen, Nena, Falco (delicious kitch) and German New Wave of the seventees and eightees, and a little bit of Russendisko (popular in Berlin) too.
The heaviest piece of poetry was Todesfuge of Paul Celan, which was very expressively and theatrically brought by the actress in exllent Hochdeutsch. Everybody was deadly silent and listening very carfully, a very tense and emotional moment for me. Strangly enough I read this poet two days earlier in a correspondence with a Dutch girlfriend, who based a poem of her on Paul Celan. Hearing somebody mentally and physically performing the poem made a great impression on me.
Todesfuge Schwarze Milch der Frühe wir trinken sie abends wir trinken sie mittags und morgens wir trinken sie nachts wir trink und trinken wir schaufeln ein Grab in den Lüften da liegt man nicht eng Ein Mann wohnt im Haus der spielt mit den Schlangen der schreibt der schreibt wenn es dunkelt nach Deutschland dein goldenes Haar Margarete er schreibt es und tritt vor das Haus und es blitzen die Sterne er pfeift seine Rüden herbei er pfeift seine Juden hervor lässt schaufeln ein Grab in der Erde er befiehlt uns spielt auf nun zum Tanz Schwarze Milch der Frühe wir trinken dich nachts wir trinken dich morgens und mittags wir trinken dich abends wir trinken und trinken Ein Mann wohnt im Haus der spielt mit den Schlangen der schreibt der schreibt wenn es dunkelt nach Deutschland dein goldenes Haar Margarete Dein aschenes Haar Sulamith wir schaufeln ein Grab in den Lüften da liegt man nicht eng Er ruft stecht tiefer ins Erdreich ihr einen ihr andern singet und spielt er greift nach dem Eisen im Gurt er schwingts seine Augen sind blau stecht tiefer die Spaten ihr einen ihr andern spielt weiter zum Tanz auf Schwarze Milch der Frühe wir trinken dich nachts wir trinken dich mittags und morgens wir trinken dich abends wir trinken und trinken ein Mann wohnt im Haus dein goldenes Haar Margarete dein aschenes Haar Sulamith er spielt mit den Schlangen Er ruft spielt süsser den Tod der Tod ist ein Meister aus Deutschland er ruft streicht dunkler die Geigen dann steigt ihr als Rauch in die Luft dann habt ihr ein Grab in den Wolken da liegt man nicht eng Schwarze Milch der Frühe wir trinken dich nachts wir trinken dich mittags der Tod ist ein Meister aus Deutschland wir trinken dich abends und morgens wir trinken und trinken der Tod ist ein Meister aus Deutschland sein Auge ist blau er trifft dich mit bleierner Kugel er trifft dich genau ein Mann wohnt im Haus dein goldenes Haar Margarete er hetzt seine Rüden auf uns er schenkt uns ein Grab in der Luft er spielt mit den Schlangen und träumet der Tod ist ein Meister aus Deutschland dein goldenes Haar Margarete dein aschenes Haar Sulamith
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Post by pieter on May 7, 2006 11:04:17 GMT -7
Die Deutsche Literatur hat ein großen auswirkung auf mich gehabt weil es teil Europa's und ach weiter gehst als Deutschland selbst, eben wen ich nicht so viel gelesen hat. I watch German television regulary and German movies, series and the literary program Das Literarische Quartet ( www.zdf.de/ZDFde/inhalt/1/0,1872,2351553,00.html ) Ich habe es von mir selbst weil meiner Eltern eher sich mit der Englischen und Fransösischen Kultur verbunden fühlen. Jetzt fange ich an Erich Kästner's Der Kleine Mann zu reden, mein favoriten Deutsche schriftsteller ist noch immer Franz Kafka (Die Verwandlung, Amerika, der Prozess). Next to this I am ofcourse also fond of English, French and Polish literature, and very British oriented too. Love BBC, British humor, detectives and movies. It is a Pan-European culture mixed with the best of the American (east-coast) culture. This makes me differant from my environment (work, family and etc.) but I can't help that. I am a little bit excentric to them, because German culture or a Pan-European interest (west- and east united) is rare overhere. The Dutch are very West oriented, literary to the West (over the North sea).
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franek80
Cosmopolitan
From Sea To Shining Sea
Posts: 875
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Post by franek80 on May 7, 2006 11:14:35 GMT -7
PIETER< HOW CLOSE DID I COME English: The Loreley I white not which is it to mean that I am so sad; A fairy tale from old times, comes me not from the sense. Air is cool and it darkens, and calmly the Rhine flows; The summit of the mountain sparkles in the evening sunshine. The most beautiful virgin sit marvelously there above; Their goldnes Geschmeide flash, you comb their golden hair. It combs it with golden Kamme and sings a song thereby; That has a wondrous, enormous Melodei. The boat operator in small ships seizes it with wild pain; It does not look the rock reefs, it looks only up into the Hoeh. I believe, the waves devour at the end boat operator and punt; And that did the truck Ley with their singing. E?
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Post by pieter on May 7, 2006 12:37:09 GMT -7
Thanks franek80 for the translation, here also some English news about Paul Celan; www2.ucsc.edu/mags/html/events/celan.html Deathfugue Black milk of daybreak we drink it at evening we drink it at midday and morning we drink it at night we drink and we drink we shovel a grave in the air there you won't lie too cramped A man lives in the house he plays with his vipers he writes he writes when it grows dark to Germany your golden hair Margareta he writes it and steps out of doors and the stars are all sparkling, he whistles his hounds to come close he whistles his Jews into rows has them shovel a grave in the ground he commands us to play up for the dance. Black milk of daybreak we drink you at night we drink you at morning and midday we drink you at evening we drink and we drink A man lives in the house he plays with his vipers he writes he writes when it grows dark to Germany your golden hair Margareta Your ashen hair Shulamith we shovel a grave in the air there you won't lie too cramped He shouts jab the earth deeper you lot there you others sing up and play he grabs for the rod in his belt he swings it his eyes are so blue jab your spades deeper you lot there you others play on for the dancing Black milk of daybreak we drink you at night we drink you at midday and morning we drink you at evening we drink and we drink a man lives in the house your goldenes Haar Margareta your aschenes Haar Shulamith he plays his vipers He shouts play death more sweetly this Death is a master from Germany he shouts scrape your strings darker you'll rise then as smoke to the sky you'll have a grave then in the clouds there you won't lie too cramped Black milk of daybreak we drink you at night we drink you at midday Death is a master from Germany we drink you at evening and morning we drink and we drink this Death is a master from Germany his eye it is blue he shoots you with shot made of lead shoots you level and true a man lives in the house your goldenes Haar Margarete he looses his hounds on us grants us a grave in the air he plays with his vipers and daydreams Death is a master from Germany your golden hair Margareta your ashen hair Shulamith www.celan-projekt.de/todesfuge-englisch.html
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Post by pieter on May 7, 2006 12:42:12 GMT -7
About the life of Heinrich Heine
Christian Johann Heinrich Heine (born as Harry [Hebrew: Chaim] Heine December 13, 1797 – February 17, 1856) was one of the most significant German poets.
Heine was born into an acculturated Jewish family in Düsseldorf, Germany. His father was a tradesman, who, during the French occupation, found new prospects opening up for Jews. When his father's business failed, Heine was sent to Hamburg, where his rich banker uncle Salomon encouraged him to undertake a commercial career. After Heine's business career failed he turned to the study of law at the universities of Göttingen, Bonn and Berlin, but found that he was more interested in literature than law, although he eventually took a degree in law in 1825, at the same time he had decided to convert from Judaism to Protestantism. This was necessary because of the severe restrictions on Jews in many of the German states; in many cases, they were forbidden to enter certain professions. These included university lecturing, which was a particular ambition for Heine. As Heine said in self-justification, his conversion was "the ticket of admission into European culture", although it proved to be nothing of the sort - and many others, for example his cousin and benefactor the composer Meyerbeer, found no need to convert to enjoy such benefits. For much of the rest of his life Heine wrestled over the incompatible elements of his German and his Jewish identities.
Heinrich Heine by Moritz (Daniel) Oppenheim. Heine is best known for his lyric poetry, much of which (especially from his earlier works) was set to music by lieder composers, most notably by Robert Schumann. Other composers who have set Heine include Richard Wagner, Franz Schubert, Felix Mendelssohn, Fanny Mendelssohn, Hugo Wolf and Brahms; and in the 20th century Hans Werner Henze and Lord Berners. As a poet Heine made his debut with Gedichte ("Poems") in 1821. Heine's one-sided infatuation with his cousins Amalie and Therese later inspired him to write some of his loveliest lyrics; Buch der Lieder ("Book of Songs", 1827) was Heine's first comprehensive collection of verse. Heine left Germany for Paris, France in 1831. There he associated with utopian socialists, including the followers of Count Saint-Simon, who preached an egalitarian classless paradise based on meritocracy. He remained in Paris, with the exception of a visit in 1843 to Germany, for the rest of his life. German authorities banned his works and those of others who were considered to be associated with the Young Germany movement in 1835. Heine continued, however, to comment on German politics and society from a distance. Heine wrote Deutschland. Ein Wintermärchen (Germany. A Winter's Tale), an account of his visit to Germany the previous year and the political climate there, in 1844; his friend, Karl Marx, published it in his newspaper Vorwärts ("Forward") in 1844. Heine also satirized the utopian politics of those opponents of the regime still in Germany in Atta Troll: Ein Sommernachtstraum ("Atta Troll: A Midsummer Night's Dream") in 1847. Heine wrote movingly of the experience of exile in his poem In der Fremde ("Abroad"): Ich hatte einst ein schönes Vaterland. Der Eichenbaum Wuchs dort so hoch, die Veilchen nickten sanft. Es war ein Traum. Das küßte mich auf deutsch, und sprach auf deutsch (Man glaubt es kaum, Wie gut es klang) das Wort: »Ich liebe dich!« Es war ein Traum.
Oh, once I had a lovely fatherland. The oaks grew tall Up to the sky, the gentle violets swayed. I dreamt it all. I felt a German kiss, heard German words (Hard to recall How good they rang) - the words "Ich liebe dich!" I dreamt it all. (Translation by Hal Draper) Heine suffered from ailments that kept him bedridden for the last eight years of his life (some have suggested he suffered from multiple sclerosis or syphilis). He died in Paris and is interred in the Cimetière de Montmartre. Among the books known to have been burned on Berlin's Opernplatz in 1933, after the Nazi raid on the Institut für Sexualwissenschaft, were the works of Heine - as a result, one of his most famous lines, "Where they burn books, they will, in the end, burn human beings too" (Almansor, 1821), is now engraved on the ground at the site.
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Post by pieter on May 7, 2006 12:46:41 GMT -7
THE SEA HATH ITS PEARLS by: Heinrich Heine (1799-1856) HE sea hath its pearls, The heaven hath its stars; But my heart, my heart, My heart hath its love. Great are the sea, and the heaven; Yet greater is my heart, And fairer than pearls or stars Flashes and beams my love. Thou little, youthful maiden, Come unto my great heart; My heart, and the sea and the heaven Are melting away with love! www.poetry-archive.com/h/heine_heinrich.html
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Post by suzanne on May 7, 2006 20:21:24 GMT -7
Pieter, I've never been a huge poetry lover (I prefer short stories) but Heine has always been one of my favorite poets, nevertheless. This is one of his I particularly enjoy: Wer zum ersten Male liebt, Sei's auch glücklos, ist ein Gott; Aber wer zum zweiten Male Glücklos liebt, der ist ein Narr. Ich, ein solcher Narr, ich liebe Wieder ohne Gegenliebe! Sonne, Mond und Sterne lachen, Und ich lache mit - und sterbe. Much (if not everything) of what he wrote is collected online at www.heinrich-heine.net.
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Post by pieter on May 8, 2006 3:23:46 GMT -7
For me exactly the same Suzanne, actually I never liked poetry until I went studying in Amsterdam when I was twenty. I loved shoirt stories and novels much more. Poetry came to me via the songs of pop musicians, the Velvet Undeground, Nina Hagen, Joy Division and David Bowie. My favorite Bowie album Heroes is actually linked to Berlin and a very good and tragic movie "Christiane F. Wir Kinder von Bahnhof Zoo", where it was the soundtrack of. The movie shows you the Heroin junkie scene of West-Berlin in the end of the seventees. It is the dramatic story of a 13 year old girl. Germany is not only a country with a dark past, exellent music and poetry, literature, fine arts, philosophy and good cars, but also a country with exellent movie directors. They have a talent for film too.
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Post by bescheid on May 8, 2006 7:30:17 GMT -7
pieter
You strike me in the heart with Heinrich Heine! Here I was so determined to absolutly stay away from any German subjects, and you bring in such wonderful poetry. {The See Hath Its Pearls}{Why The Roses Are So Pale}
Have by chance you like that of von Ludwig? {Faith In Spring}{Ich hatt einen Kameraden}
There are so many others that to list would risk a cluttering of this post.
You have asked of English speakers knowledge of German, it would appear that your question was answered by Suzanne and Franek.
There is a proverb of this:
{Was Hänschen nicht lernt, lernt Hans nimmermehr}
"What little Hans does not learn, big Hans will never learn"
Charles
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Post by pieter on May 8, 2006 9:09:16 GMT -7
Bescheid,
I am not an expert on German poetry or poetry in general, know very little Dutch, Polish, English and American poetry either. I just happened to get to know a few poets in the last decade. Joseph Brodski (heared him in Russian on the exellent Dutch evening pogram Death Poets almanak) , Allen Ginsberg's Howl (so him too in the Death Poets almanak), Flemish poet Hugo Claus and the Dutch poets Achterberg and J.C. Bloem and the Germans Heine and Celan. That's it, I did not even read Goethe's or Schillers poems, only Goethe's Faust.
I found your poem on the internet with some information about the poet;
Ich hatt' einen Kameraden von Ludwig Uhland
Ich hatt' einen Kameraden, Einen bessern findst du nit. Die Trommel schlug zum Streite, Er ging an meiner Seite Im gleichen Schritt und Tritt. Im gleichen Schritt und Tritt.
Eine Kugel kam geflogen: Gilt's mir oder gilt es dir? Ihn hat es weggerissen, Er liegt mir vor den Füßen Als wär's ein Stück von mir. Als wär's ein Stück von mir.
Will mir die Hand noch reichen, Derweil ich eben lad'. "Kann dir die Hand nicht geben, Bleib du im ew'gen Leben Mein guter Kamerad! Mein guter Kamerad!
In battle he was my comrade, None better I have had. The drum called us to fight, He always on my right, In step, through good and bad. A bullet it flew towards us, For him or meant for me? His life from mine it tore, At my feet a piece of gore, As if a part of me. His hand reached up to hold mine. I must re-load my gun. "My friend, I cannot ease your pain, In life eternal we'll meet again, And walk once more as one."
BACKGROUND: This Uhland poem—also known as "Der gute Kamerad"—was written in 1809 and later set to music by the German composer Friedrich Silcher in 1825 (using an old folk melody, "Ein schwarzbraunes Mädchen hat ein'n Feldjäger lieb"). Uhland's poem (or Lied) was inspired by the Tyrolian freedom fighters and their struggle against Napoleon. It was popular enough during World War I to be parodied as "Ich hatt' mal Marmelade," reflecting the soldiers' hunger and lack of rations. Although it was written much earlier, the poem/song is often quoted/performed in memory of the veterans of the two world wars and for the German veterans day observance known as Volkstrauertag (on the third Sunday in November).
Johann Ludwig Uhland (April 26, 1787 – November 13, 1862), was a German poet. He was born at Tübingen, and studied jurisprudence at the university there, but also took an interest in medieval literature. Having graduated as a doctor of laws in 1810, he went to Paris for a few months; and from 1812 to 1814 he worked as a lawyer in Stuttgart, in the bureau of the minister of justice. He had begun his career as a poet in 1807 and 1808 by contributing ballads and lyrics to Seckendorff's Musenalmanach; and in 1812 and 1813 he wrote poems for Kerner's Poetischer Almanack and Deutscher Dichterwald. In 1815 he collected his poems in a volume entitled Gedichte, which almost immediately secured a wide circle of readers. To almost every new edition he added some fresh poems. His two dramatic works Ernst, Herzog von Schwaben (1818) and Ludivig der Baier (1819) are unimportant in comparison with his Gedichte. As a lyric poet, Uhland must be classed with the writers of the romantic school. Like them, he found in the middle ages the subjects which appealed most strongly to his imagination. Yet his style has a precision, suppleness and grace which distinguish his most characteristic writings from those of the romantics. Uhland wrote poems in defence of freedom, and in the states assembly of Württemberg he played a distinguished part as one of the most vigorous and consistent of the liberal members. In 1829 he was made extraordinary professor of German literature at the University of Tübingen, but he resigned in 1833, when the post was found to be incompatible with his political views. In 1848 he became a member of the Frankfurt Parliament that convened in the course of the 1848 revolution.
A Dutch poem about a market street in Amsterdam East by J.C. Bloem:
"Natuur is voor tevredenen of legen. En dan: wat is natuur nog in dit land? Een stukje bos, ter grootte van een krant, Een heuvel met wat villaatjes ertegen. Geef mij de grauwe, stedelijke wegen, De'in kaden vastgeklonken waterkant, De wolken, nooit zo schoon dan als ze, omrand Door zolderramen, langs de lucht bewegen. Alles is veel voor wie niet veel verwacht. Het leven houdt zijn wonderen verborgen Tot het ze, opeens, toont in hun hogen staat. Dit heb bij mijzelven overdacht, Verregend, op een miezerigen morgen, Domweg gelukkig, in de Dapperstraat."
Nature is for the satisfied or empty (people). And than, what is left of nature in this country? A piece of forest, the size of a newspaper, A hill with some small vila's on it. Give me the grey, city roads, The waterside clamped in the quay, The clouds, never as beautiful, as when they are cadred by attickwindows, move through the sky. Everythig is much for those who does not expect much. The life keeps it's wonders hidden., until they, suddenly, shows them in their high state. This is what I thought to myself, Wet of the rain, on a drizzly morning, simply happy in the Dapperstraat (Bravestreet).
(Translation, Pieter Pluijgers)
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Post by bescheid on May 8, 2006 13:35:12 GMT -7
pieter
As of you, I am not an expert of poetry. I do enjoy it on times it would seem most appricatiated. Most of my books and references have dissappeard over the ravages of time and relocations. At times of lightening the load, out would they go into the garbage. Then later, I would regrete my discretions. Oh well, regrets are the wages of life.
I do forget at times, that you are Dutch unitll you write some thing in your language. Then, it would seem at frst, difficult, then easier with a little thought. Your language is so simular to that of Plattdüütsche or alten Niedersächsischen of which I no longer understand. I have not so many close people to talk to in our old language as to have just lost it. It is no more I think.
Pieter, you know, the people here (the area I live in, Pacific North West USA) are a good people, they are working middle class, blue coller family workers. But, they have not the time for the arts. Only for a few near the water here, maintain and support the arts. I forget how to talk to others of poetry, the arts, paintings, prospective in photography.
And then, the few of German families, we are such a closed mouthed bunch. Those of my age, keep their mouths shut, the younger, well, they are very sensate, they live in another world that is theirs alone.
Other then the many Koreans, the most are Scandinavian ethnic and we get along quite supprisingly well. They, many, seem to be show a great interest with some of the German language briefing papers by chance they notice whilst in a coffee house reading. They are very polite, but, tend not to speak thier minds. I just wish they would, so at least, I would know what they are thinking.
Pieter, Ich denke, daß möglicherweise ich heraus meine Zeit, aber, gleichzeitig gelebt habe. Ich liebe das Leben und meine frau. Ich habe soviel, dankbar für zu sein, da das Leben zu mir gut gewesen ist. Gott ist zu mir gut gewesen.
Trotz des lebens habe ich gelebt, und aller, den ich in meinem leben getan habe, Gott ist zu mir gut gewesen.
Mit freundlichem Gruß Ihr Charles (Ihr Deutschen Freund)
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Post by pieter on May 10, 2006 14:00:33 GMT -7
Bescheid, As of you, I am not an expert of poetry. I do enjoy it on times it would seem most appricatiated. Most of my books and references have dissappeard over the ravages of time and relocations. At times of lightening the load, out would they go into the garbage. Then later, I would regrete my discretions. Oh well, regrets are the wages of life.[/quote] In my opinion you do not have to be an expert on poetry to like some poets from the large quantity and with that quality of world poetry. You have even societies and cultures in which poetry is even nearly more important than in our society. Perisa (Iran), the Arab world, Russia and Poland are countries and cultures with a very strong poetic tradition. These are no less than the great Anglo-Saxon and German/French (Frankian) traditions. My language group is small, but you have a living Dutch, Flemish and South-African tradition. I even like the Afrikaander poetry more than the Dutch because it has the African farmer (boer) soil and harshness. I love books more than anything, and somwhere abroad always go to bookstores and antiguities. I preder historical literature, art historical books, art books and photographic books. I collect books with photography, an expensive hobby. It could be that my view of America is partly formed by these American photographers, who travelled Middle America and spend much time in the Phascinating American cities, ofcourse especially New York, but also other cities and towns. I tend to see the abstract poetry in art, in an early morning in Paris or Berlin, the sounds of reality, a rainy street in Philadelphia ( a photograph of Stephen Shore; Twenty first street and Spruce street, Philadelphia, june 21, 1974), a street with traffic in the night with street lights, cars passing by and people walking on the sidewalks, and crossing the street with an air of nonchelance (Krakow, april 2004. An non event, but a melancholic memory in my head). Or an Amsterdam pub on saturday night with my friends from Amsterdam and Arnhem gathered, just before going to a dancing. Poetry and music are very important things in life and very comforting, an necessety in many peoples lives, I could live without poetry but very hard without music or art. I think that you are right that my language is so simular to that of Plattdüütsche or alten Niedersächsischen, because in the time of Hanze you had the language Diets (Middle Dutch, what was spoken after Old Dutch, and came before the General Civilized Dutch ABN of today -some sort of Hoch Niederländisch-), which was an early tribe of Germanic language, and later would have it's elements in Hochdeutsch, Plattdüütsche and Dutch. An other expression of a period in Dutch language is Diets. It sounds like Dutch or Deutsch, and of which I no longer understand. Diets is not popular in the Netherlands as word, because the expression was used by Dutch Nazi's before, in the second world war and after it. ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietsch ) Do you not write and read German in the place where you live, and watch German television, movies and series? is there no German tourism to the place where you live, or economical or cultural exchange? What suprises me is that there were was so much German immigration in the 19th century and 20th century to America, but that I never hear about the German influence in America. The German jews were for long time the elite and dominant group in American judaism and very influentail in society as merchants, bankers and philantropes. Aufbau is for instant a German-jewish newspaper in America ( www.aufbauonline.com/aufbau/index.htm ). You have the German www.amerikawoche.com/ and Wikipedia has an interesting article about the German language in America ( *http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Sprache_in_den_USA ). Bescheid I had an early interest in the USA, although it seemed a totally differant continent to me. Unfortunately I have been only once in the USA when I was 29. I have to admit that I was and am to focussed on my own continent, which has so many differant cultures, diversity, ethnic and language identities. I found out during the years that language is stronger than I thought before. It's someting you get via your mothermilk, your mother, grandmother, father, brothers or sisters, neighbours, school, study, work and life in the town, region and country you come from. It's rooted in tribal rituals, customs, habits, rules, expressions, typical ownness, next to the connection of blood and love comes the language. You can adobt a new language, assimilate to it but never can wash away your past, your roots, you origine. And that is what gives countries like America, Canada and Australia it's flavor, the Pan-European roots, and the influence of the Native people, African rythem and culture (Jazz, Soul, Gospel) and Latin temperament. There could and should be a wonderful mix out of all this entities. People with strong wills, and determination to make something of their lives (escape poverty elsewhere) came to your country and with much energy, great enthusiasm, creativity and hard work they built the country you live in. And you put your share in this development of America, which was built in a few hunderd years. It is a very young country, with a very young and dynamic culture. Maybe you can share Noth-European culture with the Scandinavians, Germans and Dutch in the environment you live in. Luckily you have in English a good language to communicate with all the fellow Americans you know. English is like internet a wonderful for communication between people, like French and German were in the past, and Spanish and Chinese are new growing languages too. Bescheid I have a theory about those Northerners (Scandinavians), because their Northern heritage (little light) they are more introver people. In The Netherlands it is the same, the Southern-Catholics are more social and collectivist people, with a social culture (Carnaval, pubs and parties) while the Northern (Calvinist-Protestant) Frisians and Groningen people (Saksian people) are more to themselves, more closed, and only social active and collective in their chruch and work. Bescheid, ich freuhe mich für sie das sie ein schönen und lieber Frau habt, weil ein glücklichen Lebe anfangt in ein glücklichen ehe. Es ist gut das das Leben gut zu dir gewesen ist. Wichtig ist noch zu genießen vond die jahre, die du mit deiner Frau, familië, Freunde nog übrich hast. Das daß nog viele jahre sein möchte, mit gute gesundheid und die Zeit um das zu machen was du schön immer mal machen wollte. Mit herzlichen Gruß Pieter (Ihr Niederländische Freund) Grüßgott
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Post by bescheid on May 11, 2006 9:34:48 GMT -7
pieter
It is always good to read your returns. You are a person of great depth in understanding and experience.
Your mention of America and of only one visit. I think perhaps it was in the city of New York? Was that the city?
I have never been on the East Coast area. Once on assignment in Cincinnati (Ohio), it was for 3 months, and I lived across the Ohio river in Covington Kentucky. Whilst there though, I was very surprised at the large German influence. It was partly of tourist industry, but, also out of the ethnic make up of many of the residences there. It was interesting though. At least, or so it seemed, half of the entire population was black people.
The area here, is not entirely devoid of German culture. There are resources primarily in the Seattle area of German language news papers with a large selection from various locations in Germany, surprisingly many are of the currant date. Most, receive the news and information over the wire, then are printed in a local shop or shipped from California. There also is a German cultural exchange club in Seattle. So, there is little reason for my non-attendance and exchange with those of the German language. It is just me, and my life habits of non-mix.
In a neighbouring area of Gnomish, there are many Dutch and Swiss families living in that area. As my children are half Swiss from their mothers side. Whilst they were young, we visited often the Swiss hall/culture exchange centre.
The German Embassy in Washington DC, is very good at keeping with communication. From them, I learnt of several internet music locations as to keep currant with the music, and they relay 3-8 deplo brief papers each day. The German Consulate is located easily in Seattle, so if there are any questions or situation matters, they are available. German law will not recognize dual citizenship, as my passport is American, they will only give support in advice and information, but other wise, have been very good and helpful in times of need.
The area here, is not very much into the arts. There are satellite locations as of Edmonds and in Seattle that are art centres. Vancouver (Canada) is fairly close, and there is very much, art culture in that location. In the simmer time, painters will locate them selves in nice weather at Stanly park close to North Vancouver (the very rich section) to paint new paintings, and at same time, display finished paintings to dry and sell. Most of the paintings are good, very basic frames and reasonable in price. Since the painting has only been sold once as canvas and basic frame, this is the only value to declare at customs at time of crossing to the US side.
There are several French radio broadcast in Canada, but, as I no long have my old 24 volt radio set, my transistor sets that are common now, will not pick them up very well.
There are no German net works here or Television programmes. The area here is primarily a working middle class society. Very meat and potato basic people, primarily. They are a good people, and as people go, there are as else where, the not so goods.
There is a diffinant difference in time of day, and living differences in these people.
The day people, are day workers, they create the heavy traffic volumes, pay the most taxes, generate the most incomes.
The evening people, are after noon workers. They generate good incomes, but, are less in number. Also generate the less heavy traffic volumes. Very similar in make up to the day people.
The night people (after midnight) are a different type of people, some by choice, many by necessity of their work. These people have different life habits. They sleep during the primary day hours, do quick shopping at convenience stores, maintain cheque cashing ID cards at convenience stores. Are more prone to family problems is child abuse, family disturbances. Generally have credit problems and poor spending habits.
The above of course is a generalization, but, very primary.
The society as a whole here, is very well educated and as such, also generates a very competitive job situation. Also, this competitive atmosphere, trends into the situations of traffic congestions and violence. The society in this area, reflects a condition of social responsibility but, at similar time, cloaks a condition of violence with guns and total disregard of law. It is not just the young people, it is adults with the monitory resources/credit to purchase and maintain expensive autos, guns and entertainment. It is the mix of have nots and have that creates the results of this competitive atmosphere.
Those who have the educational creditals, will get the work, those who have not, will obtain what they can and become bitter over their fate. Then, with a combination of booze, life disappointments and opportunity. These people are prone to extreme violence.
This situation is becoming more and more apparent in this area.
My travels are in the day light, between peak traffic hours and stay in the left high speed lane on the interstate. For no better reason, the above works for me. I have only one lane to my right to worry about, and generally my speed is at the tolerance level of the enforcement people and too fast for the cell telephone people to risk.
Well the above is my life in the Pacific North West USA.
Charles
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