Trip to Czestochowa

[george]

Would like to share my trip to the Shrine of Our lady of Czestochowa in Doylestowne Penn. When i arrived there i couldn't help notice that about half of the people were black. At first i thought, well,most American blacks are Baptist ( about 98% ). Then i noticed that the blacks were speaking a African language. That made more sense, many Africans are Catholic.
When we went to the smaller chapel in which the replica of the famous icon is placed, i noticed that all of the people were Africans. I turned to my wife's cousin to ask
him " what gives"? He told me they probably don't know the history of the painting and they consider the " Black Modonna" their own. ( they believe she is black).
I thought to myself, " How cool is that ". The icon serves two purposes . Poles think of it as their savior and so do African catholics. Great human interest story.

[Pawian]

george said:

Would like to share my trip to the Shrine of Our lady of Czestochowa in Doylestowne Penn. When i arrived there i couldn't help notice that about half of the people were black. At first i thought, well,most American blacks are Baptist ( about 98% ). Then i noticed that the blacks were speaking a African language. That made more sense, many Africans are Catholic.
When we went to the smaller chapel in which the replica of the famous icon is placed, i noticed that all of the people were Africans. I turned to my wife's cousin to ask
him " what gives"? He told me they probably don't know the history of the painting and they consider the " Black Modonna" their own. ( they believe she is black).
I thought to myself, " How cool is that ". The icon serves two purposes . Poles think of it as their savior and so do African catholics. Great human interest story.

This is a wonderful story. I have nothing against black people who consider Black Madonna their own.

On the margin, in a historical book by Janusz Meissner, written in 50s last century, there is a scene when a Polish corsair gives a picture of Częstochowa Madonna to a Spanish lady imprisoned on his ship. She indignantly refuses to say prayers to such a black Madonna, throws the picture at him and she suggests he should give it to her black maid servant, Leoncia.

[Jaga]

george said:

When we went to the smaller chapel in which the replica of the famous icon is placed, i noticed that all of the people were Africans. I turned to my wife's cousin to ask
him " what gives"? He told me they probably don't know the history of the painting and they consider the " Black Modonna" their own. ( they believe she is black).
I thought to myself, " How cool is that ". The icon serves two purposes . Poles think of it as their savior and so do African catholics. Great human interest story.

I think this is good and bad. When I was doing my graduate studies I was sitting in the same laboratory with a guy originally from India, with a very dark skin color because he was from the very South of India. We became friends but we were also arguing. For instance he thought that since Brits were colonizers in India, all people in Europe are colonizers etc.


One day he came with the article from Times magazine which states that Madonna was black because they have Black Madonna in Poland. I had to explain to him that the picture is called Black Madonna not because Czestochova Madonna is African by origin but because it was done on the dark wood. Black Madonna of Czestochova does not have African features and calling her "black" is more symbolic. It should not be taken as a proof that she was black!

I think this is some kind of misunderstanding, unless somebody smart enough would be able to convince that Madonna of Czestochova is important for Poles and for Blacks but these two groups would not start fighting for the rights to it!

[Jaga]

here is the article about Black Madonnas:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Madonna

[hollister]

Fascinating reading - I had no idea that there were so many all around the world.
Thanks for posting this Jaga

[george]

I was under the misunderstanding that the faces on the picture turned black because it was scorched by flames in a attack on a miltary fort where the picture was hanging.
However, in reality Mary and Jesus probably did have dark skin. Jews from the Middle East 2000 years ago did not inter marry with northern peoples. Chances are they had dark Arab features. The depiction of the painting is probably not far off.