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Post by troubledgoodangel on Feb 4, 2007 8:58:36 GMT -7
God has a right to have a Son! This statement, denied by Muhammed in the Qu'ran (Muhammed's exact words are "far it be from Allah to have a son"), is the cornerstone of Christianity. Moreover, because God is Love for His Son, it is proper that the Spirit of this Love be also present in God. And so, while God remains One, something Christianity does not dispute, the Christians worship One God in each of the Three Persons, and worship the Three Persons in the One God. While we recognize that this is a mystery far above our minds, we hold this Truth as sacred, and any assertion to the contrary is simply un-Christian.
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Post by troubledgoodangel on Feb 12, 2007 13:46:05 GMT -7
After participating in several Christian forums in recent months, I was taken aback by the non-Catholic (distinctly Pentecostal) confusion on the nature of the Christian God. As a Catholic, I am absolutely convinced that our faith cannot prosper without the concept of the Most Holy Trinity. Over the millennia of Judeo-Christianity, through the Bible, through the Martyrs and Saints, through the Tradition, the idea of Trinity has been gaining substance in human consciousness. Let us begin with the Old Testament. By the terebinth in Mamre, "Abraham saw three men standing nearby" (Gn 18:2). Many theologians believe that these biblical figures were actually the first mention of the Trinity known to mankind. Since Pope Vigilius I (552 A.D.), all Christians are baptized "in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." The mystery of the Most Holy Trinity "is the source of all other mysteries of Christian faith [...] and the most fundamental and essential teaching" (Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC), 232-235)). This mystery has been revealed by Jesus Himself, and without trust in Jesus the entire Christian faith collapses! Before ascending into Heaven, Jesus solemnly commanded, "baptize the new Christians in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" - that is, in the Name of the Trinity (Mt 28:19). Earlier, Jesus revealed the existence of the First and Second Persons when He said that "no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him" (Mt 11:27). Building on Jesus' own words, on the Book of Wisdom 7:22-30, and on Sirach 1:1, the Gospels, the Apostles, and the Councils (beginning with Nicea (325)), unambiguously declare that Jesus, the Second Person, "is from the beginning the Word of God, the Image of the Invisible God, the radiance of the Glory of God, and the Power and the Wisdom of God" (Jn 1:1, col 1:15, Heb 1:3, and 1 Cor 1:24, respectively). As for the Third Person, even before His Passover, Jesus announced the sending of the Holy Spirit, mentioned already in Genesis 1:2 (see Luke 24:49). Furthermore, the existence of the Spirit of Truth was revealed by John the Evangelist in 14:17-26 and 16:13. Accordingly, the XI Council of Toledo (675), stated emphatically that "the Holy Spirit, the Third Person of the Trinity, is God, one and equal with the Father and the Son, of the same substance and also of the same nature." Of course, there will always be people who do not believe. But these are either Christians that need to grow in Wisdom, or simply self-styled, self-ambitious prophets. Remember Muhammad? Did not Qu'ran, Hadith 3, say that "Jesus is Mahdi" (Savior)? Did this not imply that Jesus is Divine, since it is obvious that no one could save mankind from death without being God? And yet, later, in his celebrated statement that "far it be from Allah that He have a son" Muhammad contradicts his own words, rejecting the possibility of Jesus' being God! This is exactly what I have been hearing some Pentecostals say in Christian forums ... hearing Islam, not Christianity! For Christianity falls like a house of cards without the Divinity of the Son and of the Spirit! Why? Because without the Son of God neither of us could ever hope to regain the sonship of God and to live eternally, and without the Holy Spirit we could not know the Father's love for us - a love that enables us to love the neighbor and God, in return! This is why the concept of "the God who generates, the God who is begotten, and the God who proceeds" (Lateran Council IV, (1215)), is so paramountly important! We need this Marvelous Trinity dwelling in us, the One God in Three Persons, to be Christians (CCC 264-267)!
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Post by bescheid on Feb 12, 2007 14:28:25 GMT -7
For well my goodess my dear troubledgood.
For you have no fear of the Catholik, for it is such a simple matter. To come to terms of our Drakken boots or succum to the sword of our forefathers to the present.
Every thing is simple. comply or go the path of your forefathers.
Charles
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george
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Post by george on Feb 12, 2007 17:25:57 GMT -7
" Do to others as you would like to have done to yourself". The rest of it is mostly opinion.
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Post by troubledgoodangel on Feb 13, 2007 3:07:41 GMT -7
For well my goodess my dear troubledgood. For you have no fear of the Catholik, for it is such a simple matter. To come to terms of our Drakken boots or succum to the sword of our forefathers to the present. Every thing is simple. comply or go the path of your forefathers. Charles |
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Post by troubledgoodangel on Feb 13, 2007 3:09:04 GMT -7
For well my goodess my dear troubledgood. For you have no fear of the Catholik, for it is such a simple matter. To come to terms of our Drakken boots or succum to the sword of our forefathers to the present. Every thing is simple. comply or go the path of your forefathers. Charles |
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Post by troubledgoodangel on Feb 13, 2007 3:17:45 GMT -7
There are two things that you need to know, Mr. Bescheid. First, it is boorish to engage in familiar language with strangers, and boorish is unacceptable for me. I am sure this is the last time I have to say this, for there won't be a next time participation by myself if this does not change. And second, whatever you say in your post is unintelligible and unintelligible is rude! people who are rude should not be allowed on a "Polish culture site"!
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Post by leslie on Feb 13, 2007 4:02:50 GMT -7
Troubledgood angel
I come to the defense of Charles Bescheid, although he's a big boy now, and needs no one to help defend him. But the subject you are in must be one of the most controversial one in life - the base level question being 'Is there indeed a God?' Personally I have no doubts about there being an almighty Lord, but I have severe doubts about the veracity of the historically written 'New Testament'. It is a matter of faith - you either believe in whatever you raise or you don't. But everyone has the right to challenge you if you come into the public arena with your views and I do not believe that Charles was overly hard in what he said - I understood from what he wrote that he was saying what I have just said - If you believe in God, in Jesus, the Holy Ghost or any other requirements of your chosen religion, that is up to you - but if you throw down a challenge publicly, you can expect somebody to take up that challenge.
But is is very rare for anyone on this forum to post anything in a malicious way - unlike some other forums - we try to consider the point of view of others and discuss these in a realistic manner.
Leslie
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bujno
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Post by bujno on Feb 13, 2007 4:24:12 GMT -7
But is is very rare for anyone on this forum to post anything in a malicious way - unlike some other forums - we try to consider the point of view of others and discuss these in a realistic manner. Leslie Witaj Leslie, you're are certainly a gentleman and it is the same pleasure to discuss with you while one agrees or disagrees with you. Please let let me tell you that I start to doubt in what you have written above. Or is it a trial to consider the point of view and discuss it in a realistic manner cited in a link ??  jagahost.proboards79.com/index.cgi?board=news&action=display&thread=1171271464&page=1#1171318467 |
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Post by leslie on Feb 13, 2007 8:14:34 GMT -7
Witaj Wojtek
Thank you for the 'gentleman' reference - I have to say in spite of my strong upbringing life has taught me there are times when this is not the appropriate behaviour and I have strayed!!!
Which part(s) of my posting did you start to doubt? I have to say, I write as I talk - what comes to my mind of what I want to say, I write. Have a look at my Polish book 'Efektywne Szkolenie: techniki doskonalenia umiejetnosci trenerskirch' and you will read what I mean
I am more than willing to explain my views on the parts you doubt, if you wish.
Pozdrawiam bardzo
Leslie
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bujno
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Post by bujno on Feb 13, 2007 8:49:13 GMT -7
Leslie, I have started to doubt you are right in this part of your posting where you write But is is very rare for anyone on this forum to post anything in a malicious way - unlike some other forums - we try to consider the point of view of others and discuss these in a realistic manner. I think that the post I cited the link to is light years away from realistic manner of discussion.
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Post by troubledgoodangel on Feb 13, 2007 9:25:33 GMT -7
Leslie, I stand by every word that I have said. One thing is being challenged on issues or on facts in a polite and intelligent manner, another is being purposefully incoherent, without offering any discernible argument! You have the right to come to the defense of whomever you want, but I will not be involved in this type of exchange. I had enough if it on the Jewish Conservative Forum, in Poland! BJS
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Post by leslie on Feb 13, 2007 9:32:39 GMT -7
Wojtek
There will always be exceptions to the general rule, temporary or or more permanent features in every walk of life and activity. But I am sure we are all rational adults who should be able to recognise feelings behind statements and accept them as a statement of that person at that time. And I still believe such occasions are rarities in this forum - some of us have weird senses of humour that could be misconstrued (right Charles!!) but we always remain friends in the end, or that is what we should be working towards.
Here endeth the lesson of a guy with a peculiar religion in any case!!!
Leslie
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Post by bescheid on Feb 13, 2007 10:33:27 GMT -7
There are two things that you need to know, Mr. Bescheid. First, it is boorish to engage in familiar language with strangers, and boorish is unacceptable for me. I am sure this is the last time I have to say this, for there won't be a next time participation by myself if this does not change. And second, whatever you say in your post is unintelligible and unintelligible is rude! people who are rude should not be allowed on a "Polish culture site"! Hallo Herr Troubledgood The positive aspect of this interface in exchange is: You at least responded, and that is good. For with out communication, understanding will not evolve. In as much to your charges against my self and manner, I do agree with you, for all that you say is very true. For I am all that you propose. And very naturally so. I am of a people that are reported to be with out a sense of humour, but that is not true, for Leslie has in his wisdom has taught the uprincipals of humour, and I am still learning. What was the lesson we learnt in our studies in Sociology now? {Maturation begins at birth and ends in death}, I think that was it. And yes, I am aggressive, with a very strong sense of survival. For I evolved out of a world of uncertainties and learnt as a little fellow to understand and become used to death as a friend. For in this manner even to adult hood, I am not afraid of death. In this manner, all else is simply an opportunity and blessing. I only tell you this as a vehicle of understanding between us, for fear is only a convenience of emotion. Bring to mind also that of a concept of truth { For what is offensive, is only to the beholder} I am not sure positive of your English conceptional comprehension of what is spoken as a word, to that of the meaning of intent from the author. We have to be careful with this, for it is a cultural situation in differences. Even though I pride my self in the sure knowledge of English, this will hold good untill the situation will arise that is beyond use of common words. For I do live in the states {USA} I am not American, but, still hold my German citizenship. I do trust this will bring more clear, our mutual situation that we find our selves in. In parting, I would like to perhaps add as a parting gift of wisdom that I am not so smart in figuring, but just to pass on. Aller Anfang Ist schwer {Every beginning is difficult} Charles |
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Post by bescheid on Feb 13, 2007 10:39:49 GMT -7
Troubledgood angel I come to the defense of Charles Bescheid, although he's a big boy now, and needs no one to help defend him. But the subject you are in must be one of the most controversial one in life - the base level question being 'Is there indeed a God?' Personally I have no doubts about there being an almighty Lord, but I have severe doubts about the veracity of the historically written 'New Testament'. It is a matter of faith - you either believe in whatever you raise or you don't. But everyone has the right to challenge you if you come into the public arena with your views and I do not believe that Charles was overly hard in what he said - I understood from what he wrote that he was saying what I have just said - If you believe in God, in Jesus, the Holy Ghost or any other requirements of your chosen religion, that is up to you - but if you throw down a challenge publicly, you can expect somebody to take up that challenge. But is is very rare for anyone on this forum to post anything in a malicious way - unlike some other forums - we try to consider the point of view of others and discuss these in a realistic manner. Leslie Thank you Leslie for your very kind interception into this matter of conflict. For it is very true of your gentlemanship, for this is very true. It would so seem that I am constantly learning the lessons you give in every day conversations. Yes, this true. Charles |
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