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Post by Jaga on Jul 24, 2014 17:36:38 GMT -7
I cannot watch the news from Israel and Gaza without being terribly upset especially because there is no any real critique of Israel. It is as like.... Israel had a right to kill as many people as it wants and then blame Hamas on all the killings. I do not see any rationality and common sense why nobody is protesting it unless there is some censorship in the media.
So, my vote is for Netanyahu. He is much more efficient in killing thousands of people (this is already third war done by him), without any consequences since everybody is questioning Putin for support of separatists that accidentally shot the airplane. Of course I feel for Dutch people but at least the blame is where it belong that means with Russia. 300 people dead.
In this war started by Israel already 700 hundred people are dead and no end is seen
WHAT IS THE RATION OF CIVILIANS KILLED: 300 Palestinians versus 1 Israeli, Nazis were better, they were killing 100 people for 1 SS officer.
AIPAC Is the Only Explanation for America's Morally Bankrupt Israel Policy
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Post by Jaga on Jul 25, 2014 6:00:28 GMT -7
A Letter From Doctor Mads Gilbert in Gaza www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/25139-a-letter-from-doctor-mads-gilbert-in-gazaThe email Mads Gilbert, professor of medicine at the University of North Norway (Tromso), sent to a friend on July 19 was a cri de coeur. He had spent two weeks in Gaza during Israel’s Operation Cast Lead attack in the winter of 2008-09, tending to the wounded and the dying in Al-Shifa hospital, and again for another week during a similar assault (Operation Pillar of Cloud) in 2012.As then, Gilbert is now once again caring for streams of patients rushed into Al-Shifa (the name means “healing”) from the Gaza killing fields. I reproduce the email in its entirety because it is the first lengthy account by a physician writing directly from a hospital about the region’s injured and dying in the course of Israel’s latest hostilities. A l-Shifa has been under bombardment and shellfire; other health care facilities as well as ambulances and medical personnel have been attacked. Gaza’s only rehabilitation hospital, Al-Wafa, has been destroyed.“Dearest friends, “The last night was extreme. The "ground invasion" of Gaza resulted in scores and carloads with [the] maimed, torn apart, bleeding, shivering, dying - all sorts of injured Palestinians, all ages, all civilians, all innocent. “The heroes in the ambulances and in all of Gaza’s hospitals are working 12-24hrs shifts, grey from fatigue and inhuman workloads (without payment [at] all in Shifa for the last four months); they care, triage, try to understand the incomprehensible chaos of bodies, sizes, limbs, walking, not walking, breathing, not breathing, bleeding, not bleeding humans. HUMANS! Now, once more treated like animals by ‘the most moral army in the world [sic].“My respect for the wounded is endless, in their contained determination in the midst of pain, agony and shock; my admiration for the staff and volunteers is endless; my closeness to the Palestinian sumud [steadfastness] gives me strength, although in [some of the] glimpses I just want to scream, hold someone tight, cry, smell the skin and hair of the warm child, covered in blood, protect ourselves in an endless embrace - but we cannot afford that: nor can they. “Ashy grey faces - oh NO! Not one more load of tens of maimed and bleeding: we still have lakes of blood on the floor in the ER, piles of dripping, blood-soaked bandages to clear out. The cleaners [are] everywhere, swiftly shoveling the blood and discarded tissues, hair, clothes, cannulas - the leftovers from death - all taken away... [only] to be prepared again, to be repeated all over. More than 100 cases came to Shifa [in the] last 24 hrs, enough for a large well trained hospital with everything, but here [there is] almost nothing: electricity, water, disposables, drugs, OR-tables, instruments, monitors - all rusted and as if taken from museums of yesterdays hospitals. But they do not complain, these heroes. They get on with it, like warriors, head on, enormous[ly] resolute. “And as I write these words to you, alone, on a bed, my tears flow, the warm but useless tears of pain and grief, of anger and fear. This is not happening! And then, just now, the orchestra of the Israeli war-machine starts its gruesome symphony again: salvos of artillery from the navy boats just down on the shores, the roaring F16, the sickening drones (Arabic ’Zennanis’, the hummers), and the cluttering Apaches. So much made and paid in and by US. “Mr. Obama - do you have a heart? “I invite you - spend one night - just one night - with us in Shifa. Disguised as a cleaner, maybe.“I am convinced, 100%, it would change history. Nobody with a heart AND power could ever walk away from a night in Shifa without being determined to end the slaughter of the Palestinian people. “But the heartless and merciless have done their calculations and planned another Dahiya onslaught on Gaza. The rivers of blood will keep running the coming night. I can hear they have tuned their instruments of death. Please. Do what you can. ...This cannot continue.” In an interview with Democracy Now’s Amy Goodman on July 14, Gilbert spoke of the Shifa staff’’s “resilience [...], determination and the way they cope with these extremely harsh conditions that they’re in now.” Gaza’s hospitals, he said, “are denied a constant supply of energy, of water, of disposables, medical drugs - all the items you need to run a university-level hospital. And on top of the total drainage of resources from the siege, they are now exposed to this constant and very large flow of the very severely injured. And they are not crippled. On the contrary . . . they have doubled or tripled their shifts. . . Everyone is extremely tired and exhausted, but they don’t yield.” Half of the 1,232 Gazans injured by July 14 were women and children: 36 children and 24 women had been killed out of a total of 170. “This tells you that these attacks are not targeting the militarists [but] the whole population, in order to intimidate them and to force them to give up their resistance . . . Israel is doing their utmost to kill them and to make their life as miserable as possible through these seven years of siege.”
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Post by pieter on Jul 25, 2014 11:34:56 GMT -7
Jaga,
This is a Dutch Jewish writer and a fierce anti-zionist. He says exactly the same about Netanyahu.
Cheers, Pieter
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Post by pieter on Jul 25, 2014 12:03:07 GMT -7
Dr. Hajo Meyer is a Holocaust survivor and anti-Zionist activist. He has been conducting a speaking tour titled "Never Again For Anyone," sharing his experiences of surviving Auschwitz and his perceptions of Zionism and the Israeli occupation of Palestinian land.
This video is a selection of clips from an interview with Dr. Meyer on February 19, 2011 and discusses his views of the antagonistic relationship between Zionism and Judaism.
A very interesting interview. Why does he feels connected to the Palestinians?
Very interesting interview too
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Post by pieter on Jul 25, 2014 12:16:57 GMT -7
Jaga, this interview is very important and interesting. This woman is a teacher, just like you. Maybe this is the most important interview of all interviews I posted in this tread!
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Post by pieter on Jul 25, 2014 12:43:40 GMT -7
Ilan PappéIlan Pappé (Hebrew: אילן פפה; born 1954) is an Israeli historian and socialist activist. He is a professor with the College of Social Sciences and International Studies at the University of Exeter in the United Kingdom, director of the university's European Centre for Palestine Studies, and co-director of the Exeter Centre for Ethno-Political Studies. Pappé was born in Haifa, Israel. Prior to coming to the UK, he was a senior lecturer in political science at the University of Haifa (1984–2007) and chair of the Emil Touma Institute for Palestinian and Israeli Studies in Haifa (2000–2008). He is the author of The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine ( 2006), The Modern Middle East ( 2005), A History of Modern Palestine: One Land, Two Peoples ( 2003), and Britain and the Arab-Israeli Conflict (1988). He was also a leading member of Hadash, and was a candidate on the party list in the 1996 and 1999 Knesset elections. Pappé is one of Israel's New Historians who, since the release of pertinent British and Israeli government documents in the early 1980s, have been rewriting the history of Israel's creation in 1948, and the corresponding expulsion or flight of 700,000 Palestinians in the same year. He has written that the expulsions were not decided on an ad hoc basis, as other historians have argued, but constituted the ethnic cleansing of Palestine, in accordance with Plan Dalet, drawn up in 1947 by Israel's future leaders. He blames the creation of Israel for the lack of peace in the Middle East, arguing that Zionism is more dangerous than Islamic militancy, and has called for an international boycott of Israeli academics. Pappé supports the one-state solution, which envisages a binational state for Palestinians and Israelis. His work has been both supported and criticized by other historians. Before he left Israel in 2008, he had been condemned in the Knesset, Israel's parliament; a minister of education had called for him to be sacked; his photograph had appeared in a newspaper at the centre of a target; and he had received several death threats. Early life and educationPappé was born in Haifa to German-Jewish parents who fled Nazi persecution in the 1930s. At the age of 18, he was drafted into the Israel Defense Forces, serving in the Golan Heights during the 1973 Yom Kippur War. He graduated from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem in 1978, and in 1984 obtained his PhD in history from the University of Oxford, under the guidance of Arab historian Albert Hourani and Roger Owen. His doctoral thesis became his first book, Britain and the Arab-Israeli Conflict.
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Post by pieter on Jul 25, 2014 13:26:40 GMT -7
I voted for Putin. Where Netanyahu is no angel, I have to mention that Putin was responsible for very brutal and vicious wars in Chechenia, the world has forgotten them. These wars were equally crual as Gaza and Syria today. Next to that Putin is indirectly responsible for attrocities in Syria, by supporting one side, the Assad regime. Thirdly he supports the Russian separatists in Ukraine. And he supports Israel. Putin: 'I support the struggle of Israel'www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/182754#.U9K9Qvl_sXY
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Post by Nictoshek on Jul 25, 2014 14:59:00 GMT -7
Reports: Massive New Year's Terrorist Invasion of Israel Thwarted by Security Forcesby Paul Miller 25 Jul 2014 Thousands of Hamas-linked terrorists planned to invade Israel on the Jewish New Year (Rosh Hashanah), which begins on September 24, according to an Israel security source. First reported by Ma'ariv, then in English by i24news, “thousands of terrorists were meant to cross over to Israel from Gaza through the tunnels and kill and kidnap as many Israelis as they could. The source added that the army learned about the huge planned attack during the interrogations of Hamas prisoners, captured during Operation Protective Edge in Gaza.” Reports state that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu informed his cabinet about the foiled plot during a Thursday cabinet meeting. The leader of the Jewish State reportedly expressed to officials that if this attack was not stopped, the number of Israeli fatalities may have been higher than the over 2,200 deaths Israel suffered during 1973 Yom Kippur War. During Israel’s recent incursion into Gaza, Israel Defense Forces (IDF) have set their sights on destroying Hamas’ sophisticated tunnel system. In the past, the U.S.-designated terror group has successfully infiltrated the Jewish State, resulting in the killing and kidnapping of Israeli soldiers. The last occurrence was on July 19 when two IDF soldiers lost their lives and the assailants were able to escape back to Gaza through a tunnel. Gen. James T. Conway, USMC (ret.) recently returned from Israel, where he was joined by a dozen retired U.S. generals and admirals, sponsored by Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA). While there, the group toured a tunnel from Gaza recently discovered near an Israeli kindergarten. “Unlike tunnels that I had seen during the Iraq war that were designed for smuggling, this Hamas tunnel was designed for launching murder and kidnapping raids. The 3-mile-long tunnel was reinforced with concrete, lined with telephone wires, and included cabins unnecessary for infiltration operations but useful for holding hostages,” the retired General wrote in the Wall Street Journal. Israel has reportedly destroyed over 30 tunnels during “Operation Protective Edge.” The Jewish State contends that Hamas, which governs Gaza, devotes resources to building tunnels to commit acts of terrorism, instead of building homes, parks, schools and hospitals. An article published by the Gatestone Institute quotes an Israeli spokesman’s observation that “there are two Gazas, one above ground and one below ground: an underground terrorist city.”
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Post by Jaga on Jul 25, 2014 17:50:10 GMT -7
Pieter, thanks for your messages. I have still a hard time to adjust to the new time. I will watch the videos. It bothers me greatly how people are able to believe arrogant Israel's propaganda machine. Israel is stating that it can do whatever because..... they do not target a specific civilians.... I heard it today in the main US mass media. It is so hard to believe! You can kill the whole city, like Warsaw or Dresden or Hiroshima without targeting a specific civilian.
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Post by Jaga on Jul 25, 2014 18:00:17 GMT -7
Reports state that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu informed his cabinet about the foiled plot during a Thursday cabinet meeting. The leader of the Jewish State reportedly expressed to officials that if this attack was not stopped, the number of Israeli fatalities may have been higher than the over 2,200 deaths Israel suffered during 1973 Yom Kippur War. Netanyahu needs some fairy tales to make sure that his propaganda of killing innocent people and destroying the remaining population of Gaza and West Bank has a full support. Netanyahu tried the US to start the war with Iran since since he claimed that Iran is going to destroy Israel. He helped to start Iraq;s war where according to Israel were weapons of mass destruction. He is a crazy and cruel man who lives in his conspiracy theory world where human lives of non-jews do not have any values. Israel behaves like a lunatic who shots everywhere around indiscriminately since he is afraid that he would get shoot..... but this is just his paranoia driving him nuts
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Post by Jaga on Jul 25, 2014 18:35:03 GMT -7
Pieter,
this is incredible that the children of Israel has no idea how Palestinians live, how they look etc..... Israel is simply an apartheid state with a mission to get rid of all the unwanted non-Israel population in any way possible.
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Post by Jaga on Jul 26, 2014 2:15:28 GMT -7
Pieter, I respect your opinion on Putin. Chechen war was awful. Putin is not an angel, but did you see that Groznyj became a completely different city with scy-scrapers, looks like Abu dhabi now. Thanks for the comments/videos. This woman, PLO member is a very recognizable figure. She is smart, knowledgeable and has lots of common sense. I am still watching the videos, did not finish them all yet. I am still adjusting to a different time zone
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Post by Jaga on Jul 26, 2014 2:17:45 GMT -7
Here is another Holocaust survivor and his opinion about what is going on: Beautiful dream of Israel has become a nightmare, Opinion July 23 As the violence mounts in Gaza, I feel as helpless as Gabor Maté, with whom I share a history of grandparents killed in Auschwitz and a mother who survived — a miracle that made possible my own existence. It is the greatest frustration that cruelty to Palestinians is done in the name of those Holocaust victims. It is even more frustrating that it is so difficult to make Jewish and other critical voices heard when organizations in Canada, the U.S., and elsewhere have claimed the right to speak for all Jews when they advocate that Israel can do no wrong.On the contrary, it seems clear to me, as to Gabor Maté, that Israel can survive spiritually — and perhaps eventually also physically — only by reversing the course of occupation, repression, and killing, which began with occupation of Palestinian territories and continues as land, water, and all the means of life are taken by so-called settlers. Walls separating unequal peoples are part of a history that must end. Full humanity must be an achievement for all or it cannot exist for anyone. I hope more voices, Jewish and other, will overcome fear of being labelled anti-Semitic or self-hating Jews, to demand that our governments seeks a just peace between Israel and Palestine. ... George Fleischmann, TorontoI commend Gabor Maté for bravely giving Toronto readers a necessary perspective on the tragic loss of life and displacement of families in Israel-Palestine. The Harper government and the majority of media reports feed us a simplistic line that Israel must defend itself against terrorist actions from Hamas. This dismisses the Palestinians’ long and tragic struggle for nationhood. Maté’s article puts a human face on the desperate plight of Palestinian families. Dehumanizing people is how we comfortably turn a blind eye to people’s suffering and outright slaughter. Years later we claim that we didn’t know what was happening. www.thestar.com/opinion/letters_to_the_editors/2014/07/26/taking_sides_on_mideast_crisis.html
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Post by pieter on Jul 26, 2014 7:35:53 GMT -7
Pieter, I respect your opinion on Putin. Chechen war was awful. Putin is not an angel, but did you see that Groznyj became a completely different city with scy-scrapers, looks like Abu dhabi now. Thanks for the comments/videos. This woman, PLO member is a very recognizable figure. She is smart, knowledgeable and has lots of common sense. I am still watching the videos, did not finish them all yet. I am still adjusting to a different time zone Jaga, I just said what I felt to be a good answer, but I also realise that I have very little information -like the rest of us- about what is really going on in Eastern-Ukraine, Gaza, Israel, the Westbank, Syria, Iraq, Libiya, Egypt ( the Sinai desert bordering Gaza), Lebanon ( Hezbollah rocket fire on Israel), Saoudi Arabia ( which backs Egypt and thus indirectly Israel), Qatar ( which backs Hamas), Iran ( which backs Hamas), Turkey ( which is Pro-Palestinian and Pro-Hamas), Chechenia, Georgia, Moldova, Rumania, the Baltic republics, Azerbaijan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Tunesia, Mali, Nigeria, Sudan and South-Sudan, Somalia, Yemen, Algeria, the nations of the EU, the USA, Canada (also an immigration country with people and intelligence people of countries of all those conflict area's; and bordering with the US) and the Russian Federation. What we see on television, on blogs, in newspapers and read on Forums is maybe 10% of the real information. 90 percent of the internet isn't used I learned from a research journalist during a ' research journalism for local media' seminar/workshop in Hilversum at the National Broadcast Corporation (NOS) headquarters. Yes, we see the tragedies, disasters and huge losses of life in Gaza, Syria, Iraq and Eastern-Ukraine. (the crash and the Ukrainian/Russian civilian casualties of the civil war over there), but don't know what is really behind it. The Global, geopolitical interests beneath it. The mix of Global, National, region and local interests. Conflicts with complicated layers, historical narratives, financial and economical interests and power politics (Influence spheres, territorial aims) There are huge interests at stake, and behind closed doors or in closed networks or electronic circuits there will be huge tensions about stakes, corporate interests, national interests, products, trade ties and financial markets which will lose or gain from certain victories or losses. The masses or ordinary citizens will never know the true nature of conflicts, due to government propaganda, colored media reports, one sided reporting (non-neutral, non-objective) and deliberate smoke screens of false information. And all sides of a conflict will do that. So you know Pro-Ukrainian Western media is colored, and the Pro-Eastern-Ukrainian separatist, Pro-Russian media are colored too. You have to be somewhere in the middle between them. And have to search for real research journalistic sources. Like the research journalism around the Watergate scandal by the Washington Post reporters Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein. They uncovered information suggesting that knowledge of the break-in, and attempts to cover it up, led deeply into the Justice Department, the FBI, the CIA, and the White House. Executive editor Ben Bradlee put the newspaper's reputation and resources behind reporters Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein, who, in a long series of articles, chipped away at the story behind the 1972 burglary of Democratic National Committee offices in the Watergate Hotel complex in Washington. The Post's dogged coverage of the story, the outcome of which ultimately played a major role in the resignation of President Richard Nixon, won the newspaper a Pulitzer Prize in 1973. How tragic, sickening, dirty, awful, nasty and brutal Gaza might be, also honest reporting is nearly impossible due to aggressive Pro-Israeli media, lobbies and parties on one side and the Pro-Palestinian left, Muslim migrants, Palestinian diaspora and Free Palestine activists on the other side. A problem for the Palestinians of Gaza right now is in my eyes that there is an invisible anti-Hamas coalition of Egypt, Israel, the Palestinian authorities of the West-Bank, Saoudi-Arabia (Pro-Egypt/Pro-general/president Sisi), USA and some European countries. On the other side is the Pro-Palestinian coalition of Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, Turkey, large parts of the Arab and Muslim world and Pro-Palestinians forces in Europe and the USA. People who are in favor of one Bi-national state and peaceful coexistance of Israeli's and Palestinians in a Federal state form a minority. The two state solution is floating further and further away, because both Israel and Hamas don't want a two state solution. Israel wan't the whole of Eretz Yisrael (Greater Israel), which means the Israeli rulers want Israel plus Gaza and the West-Bank. Hamas want's the same and calls that Palestine! Cheers, Pieter
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Post by pieter on Jul 26, 2014 9:02:12 GMT -7
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