Independance referendems

[JustJohn or JJ]

Scotland the free: Remain part of Great Britain? Or should the Scots 'go it alone'?

Charles Wooley admits this story is personal.






Meet the powerful - and usually very private - people who own much of our country. Reporter David Miller goes in search of Scotland's landowners and asks whether it's fair that less than one per cent of Scots own over half of all Scotland's private land. As the government considers radical change, he asks whether big landowners really are the problem, and whether communities will end up owning more of the land they live on.

[kaima]

Poles to Help Decide Scotland's Future

www.rferl.org/content/scotland-referendum-independence-polish-immigrants/26585006.html



By Kathleen Moore

September 15, 2014

PERTH, Scotland -- As he sips a pint of beer at an outdoor cafe, Bartosz Maroszek lapses into a Scottish accent as broad as the nearby River Tay.

The 26-year-old Dabrowa Gornicza native came to Scotland seven years ago to take up a job as a coffin varnisher in a place he'd never heard of.

After being picked up at the bus station by Maroszek's new employer, "We thought we were going to stay in Edinburgh," he says. But the car kept driving north. "'Where are we going?' I asked. They said, 'Perth.' I said, 'Oo! Where is that?'"


Bartosz Maroszek, 26, is one of an estimated 61,000 Polish nationals who make up Scotland's largest national minority group.

Nowadays Maroszek calls Scotland his second home, one he shares with his partner, Gosia, and their 2-year-old son, Michal, whom he calls his "wee terror." Still with the same coffin maker, Maroszek has been given added responsibilities by his boss. And on September 18 he'll be doing the same as millions of others living in Scotland -- voting in a referendum on whether Scotland should be an independent country.

Maroszek wears his views on his sleeve, almost; along with a couple of varnish stains, his left forearm sports a blue "Yes 2014" wristband.

"Poland fought so many times to be independent and now we manage to be independent," he says. "Scots don't have to die to be independent, they just can simply go and put a 'yes' vote."
Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond delivers a speech during an international press conference in Edinburgh on September 11.Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond delivers a speech during an international press conference in Edinburgh on September 11.

Maroszek is one of an estimated 61,000 Polish nationals who make up Scotland's largest national minority group. As European Union citizens, they get a vote in the independence referendum. And with the polls saying the result is too close to call, it's just possible that the votes of EU nationals like Maroszek could hold the key to the result.

Leading pro-independence figures -- including Scotland's first minister, Alex Salmond, and his deputy, Nicola Sturgeon -- have made campaign appearances with Poles and other EU nationals in the run-up to the vote.

'Inclusive' Nationalism

By his own estimate, Maciej Wiczynski has traveled more than 11,000 kilometers criss-crossing Scotland campaigning for independence. He's also paying out of his own pocket, although he declines to say exactly how much as his wife "would probably kill me."




The ebullient 31-year-old father of two set up the "Poles for an independent Scotland" Facebook page some 19 months ago and has held Polish-language meetings across the country and printed campaign materials in Polish in a bid to win over his compatriots.

Wiczynski, a health-care support worker, says If Scotland becomes independent, he will be one of the first to apply for a Scottish passport "with the tartan and bottle of whisky on the front."
Bartosz Maroszek, 26, is one of an estimated 61,000 Polish nationals who make up Scotland's largest national minority group.Bartosz Maroszek, 26, is one of an estimated 61,000 Polish nationals who make up Scotland's largest national minority group.

Wiczynski says the Scots' brand of nationalism is inclusive and poles apart from what he sees as a growing anti-EU and anti-immigration mood south of the border, as evidenced there by a recent rise in support for the Euroskeptic U.K. Independence Party (UKIP).

"Down south they are calling us foreigners and here in Scotland they are calling us new Scots. That's a huge difference," Wiczynski says. "In the debate about the future of Scotland we are talking about 'the people of Scotland,' not about Scots. Nationality doesn't matter. You live here, you work here, you pay taxes here, you have got a mortgage here, you are a Scot. End of story. Full stop. And that's beautiful."

'It's Only Human'



The northeastern oil city of Aberdeen has one of Scotland's biggest Polish communities.

Outside the city's St. Mary's Cathedral on the last Sunday before voting day, Michael Watt, a young independence activist, hands out "Poles for independence" leaflets to worshipers leaving the Polish Mass.

Mark Pradela, 32, who works in the health service, says he's still making up his mind but is "80 percent 'no.'" "I think it's better if it's one country, if we are together," given the uncertainties of independence, he says.

One red-haired young woman, who declines to give her name, says for a long time she was a "yes" but has since changed her mind.

"I think it's better for us to stay in the union. I think financial risks are the main things. You can't rely on oil completely," she says. "It was still a difficult decision but I'm not convinced entirely for 'yes,' so 'no' is the other option."

Wlodimierz Szydlowski, carrying a guitar and lighting a cigarette as he leaves the church, says he's a "no," too. "In my opinion it is too small a country to be independent," the 50-year-old joiner says.

But his cheerful friend Tonny Borowski, a stocky 51-year-old bricklayer and "happy grandfather" to four grandchildren -- three of them born in Scotland -- asks why shouldn't Scotland go its own way? "It's human to want [independence]," he says.

Back in Perth, Maroszek says there are still some unanswered questions for him, such as what currency an independent Scotland would use.

But, he adds, that's not enough to be a big worry for him. And if Scotland does leave the United Kingdom, he, too, will try for Scottish citizenship.

"I grew up in Poland, I'm Polish.... I will always be Polish and if I have to go fight for my country, I will," he says. "But I have been living here and so I want to be part of the community. I would like to become -- I won't be a Scot, but a Polish-Scot."

[Nictoshek]

[JustJohn or JJ]

My son thinks they should.   







My brother in law on the right thinks they should.

[Nictoshek]

Where's the bagpipes ??

[JustJohn or JJ]

Scots reject independence in historic vote
Sep 19th 2014 4:29AM

By JILL LAWLESS and DANICA KIRKA
Associated Press

EDINBURGH, Scotland (AP) -- Scottish voters have resoundingly rejected independence, deciding to remain part of the United Kingdom after a historic referendum that shook the country to its core.

The decision prevented the rupture of a 307-year union with England, bringing a huge sigh of relief to Britain's political establishment, including Prime Minister David Cameron, who faced calls for his resignation if Scotland had broken away.

The vote on Thursday - 55 percent against independence to 45 percent in favor - saw an unprecedented turnout of just under 85 percent.


A majority of voters did not embrace Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond's impassioned plea to launch a new nation, choosing instead the security offered by remaining in the U.K. with England, Wales and Northern Ireland. Still, the result sets up a whole new political dynamic in the kingdom, and Salmond in defeat will still be the man who wrangled more powers for his region away from London.

"We have chosen unity over division," Alistair Darling, head of the No campaign, said early Friday in Glasgow. "Today is a momentous day for Scotland and the United Kingdom as a whole."

The pound hit a two-year high against the euro and a two-week high against the U.S. dollar as markets shrugged off recent anxiety about a possible vote for independence. In early Asian trading, the pound jumped nearly 0.8 percent to $1.6525 against the U.S. dollar before falling back slightly. Britain's main stock index opened higher.

A much-relieved Cameron promised outside his Downing Street office to live up to earlier promises to give Scotland new powers on taxes, spending and welfare. He said the new plans will be agreed upon by November, with draft legislation by January.

"We will ensure that those commitments are honored in full," Cameron said. "We have heard the voice of Scotland, now the voices of millions in England must be heard."

Cameron says giving more to Scotland requires that people in other parts of the U. K. get more rights to govern their own affairs as well, particularly in England.

Salmond conceded defeat and called on Scots to accept the result, but celebrated the vote itself.

"This has been a triumph for the democratic process and for participation in politics," he said.

The No campaign won the capital city, Edinburgh, by a margin of 61 percent to 38 percent and triumphed by 59 percent to 41 percent in Aberdeen, the country's oil center. The Yes campaign won Glasgow, Scotland's biggest city, but it was not enough.

Salmond had argued that Scots could go it alone because of its extensive oil reserves and high levels of ingenuity and education. He said Scotland would flourish on its own, free of interference from any London-based government.

Many saw it as a "heads versus hearts" campaign, with cautious older Scots concluding that independence would be too risky financially, while younger ones were enamored with the idea of building their own country.

The result saved Cameron from a historic defeat and also helped opposition chief Ed Miliband by keeping his many Labour Party lawmakers in Scotland in place. Labour would have found it much harder to win a national election in 2015 without that support from Scotland.

Former Prime Minister Gordon Brown, a Scot, returned to prominence with a dramatic barnstorming campaign in support of the union in the final days before the referendum vote. Brown argued passionately that Scots could be devoted to Scotland but still proud of their place in the U.K., rejecting the argument that independence was the patriotic choice.

"There is not a cemetery in Europe that does not have Scots, English, Welsh and Irish lined side by side," Brown said before the vote. "We not only won these wars together, we built the peace together. What we have built together by sacrificing and sharing, let no narrow nationalism split asunder."

For his part, Cameron - aware that his Conservative Party is widely loathed in Scotland - begged voters not to use a vote for independence as a way to bash his party.

The vote against independence keeps the U.K. from losing a substantial part of its territory and oil reserves and prevents it from having to find a new base for its nuclear arsenal, now housed in Scotland. It had also faced a possible loss of influence within international institutions including the 28-nation European Union, NATO and the United Nations.

The decision also means Britain can avoid a prolonged period of financial insecurity that had been predicted by some if Scotland broke away.

"This has been a long, hard fight and both sides have campaigned fiercely," said Norma Austin Hart, a Labour Party member of Edinburgh City Council. "This has not been like a normal election campaign. There have been debates in town halls and school halls and church halls.

"It's been so intense," she said. "But the people of Scotland have decided."

[JustJohn or JJ]

Here we go. Just as Pieter predicted.


BBC News Europe

27 September 2014 Last updated at 08:10 ET

Catalonia president signs independence referendum decree


_{Artur Mas (right) signed the decree in a short and symbolic ceremony}

The president of the Spanish region of Catalonia has signed a decree calling for a referendum on independence.

Artur Mas wants Catalonia to hold a Scottish-style vote on 9 November, but does not have the backing of the central government in Madrid.

Spain quickly denounced the move, calling the plan unconstitutional.

Catalonia, which includes Barcelona, is one of Spain's richest and most highly industrialised regions, and also one of the most independent-minded.

On 19 September Catalonian lawmakers voted by a margin of 106 to 28 in favour of authorising the referendum, known locally as a "consultation".

Mr Rajoy and the Spanish government believe any vote would be illegal.

Two hours after Mr Mas signed the decree, Spanish Deputy Prime Minister Soraya Saenz made Madrid's position clear: "This referendum will not be held because it is unconstitutional," she said.

The prime minister is expected to take action at a special cabinet meeting early next week, and is likely to take the dispute to the country's Constitutional Court.

However, Mr Mas says he can use local laws to hold a vote in a matter of weeks.

The decree was signed at a short ceremony and will serve as a message of intent to Spain's central government, says the BBC's Tom Burridge in Madrid.

The question now will be on how far the Spanish government is prepared to go in order to stop a referendum, our correspondent adds.

Mr Mas has previously insisted that the pro-independence movement would prevail, even if it faces stiff opposition.

"If they think in Madrid that by using legal frameworks they can stop the will of the Catalan people, they are wrong," he said in the wake of the Scottish "No" vote.

Until recently, few Catalans had wanted full independence, but Spain's painful economic crisis has seen a surge in support for separation, correspondents say.

There is resentment over the proportion of Catalan taxes used to support poorer regions.

The pro-independence movement in Catalonia believes that the region can go ahead with the independence vote after the decree is signed.

Earlier this month hundreds of thousands of Catalans formed a "V" for "vote" along two of Barcelona's main roads calling for their right to vote.