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Post by Jaga on Feb 14, 2007 17:29:38 GMT -7
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Post by kaima on Feb 15, 2007 1:10:37 GMT -7
This will be interesting, as I am trying to quote part of the site. This demonstrates how sometimes history varies according to the country in which it is written. I always learned the Poles were already Christian and the Lithuanians proud pagans when the Germanic orders got the Pope's blessing to conquer and "christianize" them. Essentially it was getting a blessing from the pope under false pretenses for invading and conquering Poland. This is distinctly NOT addressed in the history as presented on this site.
Whose history tells the truth? I cannot say. I was not there. Charles, what did you learn in school?
Kai
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Post by Jaga on Feb 15, 2007 13:26:25 GMT -7
Kai, sure, Germans will always try to defend themselves  Frankly, I do not see anybody to have unbiased history. Maybe in the second life but not here on the Earth |
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Post by bescheid on Feb 15, 2007 17:08:29 GMT -7
This will be interesting, as I am trying to quote part of the site. This demonstrates how sometimes history varies according to the country in which it is written. I always learned the Poles were already Christian and the Lithuanians proud pagans when the Germanic orders got the Pope's blessing to conquer and "christianize" them. Essentially it was getting a blessing from the pope under false pretenses for invading and conquering Poland. This is distinctly NOT addressed in the history as presented on this site. Whose history tells the truth? I cannot say. I was not there. Charles, what did you learn in school? Kai Kai How did I miss this topic? Yes, also I read part of this. It is ok as history but, misses some what on the early points. I think perhaps it is the flavour of the times that is not represented so well. This is a refresure as I remember some time past, 1 or 2 years, this was brought up, my memory is faulted on this. I do remember studing this whilst in school in my 4th year whilst living in Danmark after the war. {we begin school at 5 yrs of age}. What sticks in my memory though is this: The Knights were not official untill blessed by the Pope, and they were only blessed upon after arrival in the Holy land of Jeriouselum. This for the title of {Templers and Hospitaliers} then later as formed into a military order of {The Order of The German House-Der Order des Deutsche Haus}. This to be legal with the orders of the Pope to be{The Followers of the Cross [Kreuzritter]} In this manner, they now were a recognized military order. If I remember more so, they were ordered to cross into the land of the Baltic {Östsee} for conversion of the Prüssion tribes to Christianity from their former pagon. In this process, took to the sword, entireity of villeges as unfit people. The then Polish Duke {Konrad von Masowien} fearing their power and cordinated battle tactics, invited them to stay in his land with payment being that of certain land and share of levied tax payments. In much later times, to form the basis of the land of the two Prüssia {East and West} with their capitol as of {Könegsberg} the city of 7 bridges. Later to form The Prussion Federation. This being also the inspiration of The Officers Code Of Ethnics as later adopted by the German Army. Just some useless information: The Brandenberg Gate entrance was built as a monument of Prussian peace. Napoleon had stolen the Quadriga {Chariot and statue of peace}, this was later returned by the French. Otto von Bismarck {The Iron Chanceler} was Prussion, a Junker [son of a land owner]} I cauld be faulted on this as this is from raw memory, if so, I believe I am very close. Charles |
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Post by bescheid on Feb 15, 2007 17:28:34 GMT -7
Kai, sure, Germans will always try to defend themselves Frankly, I do not see anybody to have unbiased history. Maybe in the second life but not here on the Earth Gollies Jaga, are we that transparent?  Charles |
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Post by joanzaniskey on Feb 15, 2007 18:32:10 GMT -7
Jaga,
Makes sense to me. History depends on who wrote it, and while some writers are less biased then others it is the writers perspective. Think I said this once before.
Joan
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bujno
Cosmopolitan
Posts: 648
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Post by bujno on Feb 16, 2007 8:26:13 GMT -7
Whose history tells the truth? I cannot say. I was not there. Kai Kai, I greatly appreciate your critism, distance and wit. Nonetheless I think that in the above example you went too far with abstaing from voting  For Poles it is something like... hm .... like saying 'on 11 September the US was attacked by the greatest terrorist attack in the history. But the other side's history says that on that day the great devil and the infidels were punished. Whose history tells the truth? I cannot say. I was not there' |
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Post by kaima on Feb 16, 2007 8:53:47 GMT -7
Whose history tells the truth? I cannot say. I was not there. Kai Kai, I greatly appreciate your critism, distance and wit. Nonetheless I think that in the above example you went too far with abstaing from voting For Poles it is something like... hm .... like saying 'on 11 September the US was attacked by the greatest terrorist attack in the history. But the other side's history says that on that day the great devil and the infidels were punished. Whose history tells the truth? I cannot say. I was not there' I would agree with you, Bujno, except that in this specific case we are talking about western history that reports the poles were already Christianized when the Teutonic Knights attacked them in the name of bringing them to Christianity. I have read too many versions of history to know if that is true or not, and I have come to believe history is quite flexible, adn quite often inaccurate. Otherwise I agree with your position. Kai |
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Post by Jaga on Feb 16, 2007 20:35:36 GMT -7
Jaga, Makes sense to me. History depends on who wrote it, and while some writers are less biased then others it is the writers perspective. Think I said this once before. Joan Joan, history is also usually written by the victors So, it shows their point of view, especially in conquered regions |
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Post by bescheid on Feb 16, 2007 21:01:27 GMT -7
Jaga, Makes sense to me. History depends on who wrote it, and while some writers are less biased then others it is the writers perspective. Think I said this once before. Joan Joan, history is also usually written by the victors So, it show s their point of view, especially in conquered regions Jaga your words and that of Joan's, have given me substance of thought. It is true of course that of history written by the conquerers. But the knowledge of 1st hand, is that of the conquered. The conquering armies know only of a defeated country and pass on in written form a 2nd/3rd hand observation that is lacking in true substance of actuality. For truth is only that to the understander. I still feel badly of my very poor contribution to an earlier post reply to that of Kai, as per his request for my contribution. I think perhaps was another case of my tongue being stuck behind my teeth. A bit of personal description perhaps is also that of confession of the conquered. No matter the age, education, blessings of good fortunes and responsibilities in later life. There remains in the mind, still, a small fear of the victors and at one time,your life was at their discretion to dispose as they seen fit. Charles |
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Post by kaima on Feb 17, 2007 9:02:30 GMT -7
Joan, history is also usually written by the victors So, it shows their point of view, especially in conquered regions Yes, but this is many centuries later, possession of the grounds has changed a number of times, and even back then, the knights were ultimately kicked out, no? So ther should be more of a thorough presentation. Giving a one sided history like that is crap. Kai |
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Frankly, I do not see anybody to have unbiased history. Maybe in the second life 
For Poles it is something like... hm .... like saying 'on 11 September the US was attacked by the greatest terrorist attack in the history. But the other side's history says that on that day the great devil and the infidels were punished. Whose history tells the truth? I cannot say. I was not there'