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Post by livia on Jan 7, 2008 6:51:09 GMT -7
And my liver starts to ache when I read another example of Polish self-flagellation history-wise.
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Post by valpomike on Jan 7, 2008 10:39:48 GMT -7
To all,
I hope that the children here in the U.S.A. and my grandchildren, will never have to go to war at 12 or even 16.
Michael Dabrowski
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Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Jan 7, 2008 14:07:27 GMT -7
And my liver starts to ache when I read another example of Polish self-flagellation history-wise. This self-flagellation attached to the Polish context sounds a bit ambiguous. It may have two meanings. Which one do you have in mind? PS. The intention behind the existence and development of this thread has always been provocation.... Did you catch the bait??? hahahahahahahahahahaha
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Post by valpomike on Jan 7, 2008 15:16:36 GMT -7
Paeian,
WHAT?
Michael Dabrowski
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Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Jan 7, 2008 15:29:32 GMT -7
Paeian, WHAT? Michael Dabrowski Yes, I agree with you. WHAT did Livia mean?
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Post by livia on Jan 8, 2008 2:45:30 GMT -7
Pawian, I might have expected something like that from you ;D ;D ;D My mistake, I didn't see a provocation. But seriously - were there reasons for such a provocation? Does this forum gather people knowing deeply Polish history? Does this forum gather people of 'hoorey-patriots' type and you felt you need to pierce their baloon with a pin of provocation? The children fighting issue. We are talking about deep history of Poland. And even in that deep history Polish Army didn't draft underage people. Those young and women who fought were exceptions and in very unusual circumstances of Warsaw Uprising 1944 and Warsaw Ghetho Uprising 1943. Noone issued an order -'conscript the young and the women', never. Were is a controversy here? And even more - POLISH controversy??? At the same time of long past WWII history the Germans conscripted the young to their army systemically. No forum member responded to your provocation saying 'This controversy of yours is really very little one compared to Volkssturm'. So obviously your provocation didn't work and turned into self-flagellation. Here's more on German army using underage boys en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VolkssturmThe German supra-race defenders: The guy on the left is the top guy in Germany at that time. Hitler was his name: Briefing: I agree a 'little controversy' exists. But it is not Polish, and not even German anymore. It is little HUMAN controversy. For the latest examples look into Africa and Asia....
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Post by hollister on Jan 8, 2008 7:33:54 GMT -7
Liva, If you think this is bad just wait until the topic of the Uprising comes up!
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Post by bescheid on Jan 8, 2008 9:31:33 GMT -7
livia I see you have completed some research. The photos of our military, very impressive as combat hard solders, are they not? Very much to be feared. Yes, they are children and old fellows, this was all that was left, other then a few battlans of SS Panzer. Charles
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Post by valpomike on Jan 8, 2008 14:56:47 GMT -7
This is a new photo taken now of the German Army. Did you see Charles in the photo ?
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Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Jan 8, 2008 15:15:51 GMT -7
Pawian, I might have expected something like that from you ;D ;D ;D My mistake, I didn't see a provocation. There`s still a lot to learn hahahahaha Yes. I feel there is such a need. This forum has attracted many Americans of Polish origin. They are very idealistic about Poland partly because they have never been here. They derive their knowledge of Poland from their old parents` stories and other sources. It is very pleasant for Poles when foreignes think so highly of Poland, love it, consider it a fairy land etc etc. Poles can feel flattered... I also like flattery but leaving it like that would be unfair. it would be cheating people. And I am too honest to dare to cheat anyone. I play tricks and games but when it comes to serious things, I don`t cheat. All in all, we should be proud of our glorious past but I feel a strong need to discuss our vices too. Discuss them here and now. Of course not. They drafted themselves into the army and nobody protested.... hahahahahaha What does it matter if it was an exception or not? It happened and that`s what I was exactly talking about - the participation of Polish children in the Warsaw Rising and the issue of adults who closed an eye to it! Can`t I discuss it because it happened only once? Did it have to take place continually to create the required material for the discussion?? I don`t understand this reasoning at all.... Did it happen in Poland? Yes. So it is Polish. But if you prefer to call it "Little controversies that took place in Poland," you can do it but this title is too long so I will stick to my shorter one. hahahaha Little or big, what the difference? Besides, German Volksturm comprised men from 16 to 60, whereas in Warsaw Rising 12 years old boys were fighting in assault units. It worked very well. Didn`t you see those many posts with responses??? And whether it is a self-flagellation or not, is totally unimportant to me. The typology doesn`t matter..... hahahaha Currently I am interested in Polish historical issues..... PS. Livia, what about other controversies??? Have you already read them? What is your opinion? ? hahahahahahahahahahahaha
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Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Jan 8, 2008 15:19:20 GMT -7
Liva, If you think this is bad just wait until the topic of the Uprising comes up! Langsam, langsam, liberale! (as Charles would say). Easy, easy, Holly! We will introduce Livia to all our controversies gradually. She shouldn`t take in too much at a time.... hahahahahaha
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Post by valpomike on Jan 8, 2008 15:23:58 GMT -7
To all,
I, unlike the others that you spoke of, have been to Poland, several times, and each time, I spend no less than a month, and will do so again, in 2008. I E-mail many friends and family in Poland each day, and ask them questions, that I don't know the answers to. I think the Polish kids who went to war, unlike the Germans, I don't think even had uniforms, or training. Went out of need, not choice. Correct me if I am wrong.
Michael Dabrowski
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Post by valpomike on Jan 8, 2008 15:24:30 GMT -7
P.S. I still think that is Charles in the photo's.
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Post by bescheid on Jan 8, 2008 15:34:31 GMT -7
This is a new photo taken now of the German Army. Did you see Charles in the photo ? Now you have it all wrong, I am the fellow behind the camera whilst serving in the Bundeswehr. Those other fellows, are stand ins. We were whilst in Grundwehrdienst using this to shame the felllows of Wehrdienst. {Wehrdienst is a way out of military service, they do public service in the stead} {Grundwehrdienst, is our basic military training} I am not sure the name you have for these situation. Charles
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Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Jan 8, 2008 15:35:20 GMT -7
P.S. I still think that is Charles in the photo's. Did you recognise him by his hat??? Hmmm......
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