Fr. Tadeusz Rydzyk: a Saint, or a Villain?

[troubledgoodangel]

The saga of Fr. Rydzyk is the hottest item in the news in Poland. Several dozens of prominent Catholics, including such well-known figures like Tadeusz Mazowiecki have signed a letter published by the Cracow Jesuit Center of Culture and Dialogue, which states that "Fr. Tadeusz Rydzyk in his latest manifestations exhibited contempt for the neighbor, not only brothers and sisters in Christ, but also brothers and sisters, the Jews." The letter is in reference to the outcry over Fr. Rydzyk's reported statement that "the Polish First Lady is a witch, and that the President is a deceiver controlled by the Jewish lobby." But the Catholic Church, and Fr. Rydzyk, see it differently, and here is what Fr. Rydzyk responds: ""Satan is getting very nervous for we have, with your permission, stepped on his tail. We say this figuratively, but that's what it is. We see these events as a sign for us, how much one needs to deepen one's religious life, one's religious consciousness and consciousness in general, in order to live in truth." Fr. Rydzyk is convinced that he has spoken the truth, and he refuses to defend himself. It is clear that the battle has just began. Today's Gazeta Œwi¹teczna bears the headline, "Doœæ Rydzyka." The Church is awaiting the decision of the Redemptorist Provincial, Fr. Joseph Tobin, from Rome (I know Fr. Tobin personally and have found him to be uncommonly inscrutable and uncommitting). I have done my own research, holding a long conversation with an old nun. She begged me not to believe "these satanic fabrications." All the Polish nuns, she said, listen to Radio Maryja. Fr. Rydzyk is a Saint , like John the Baptist and John Chrysostom, both of whom died a Martyr's death for speaking the truth about the rulers' wives. She also mentioned St. Stanislaus' martyrdom for the truth. I agreed with her, but I observed that statements like "twisted Talmudic mentality" seem exagerated. Talmud has been purged from anti-Catholic passages after Second World War, and Fr. Rydzyk, being a scholar, should know that. The Jews are deeply alienated by Fr. Rydzyk. The Wiesenthal Center has already contacted me twice, asking to sign a petition to Archbishop Józef Kowalczyk, President of the Polish Bishop's Conference, to remove Fr. Rydzyk from Radio Maryja. Naturally, I have refused, stating that I should not interfere with a higher Church authority. But the Holy Father Benedict XVI has himself reprimanded Fr. Rydzyk, and Gazeta Œwi¹teczna (July 14-15), seizing on this, has now called on the Church "to let the Polish Catholics know who is right, the Holy Father, or Father Rydzyk." My analysis is this: despite of all appearances, and in spite of all the "evidence," I give Fr. Rydzyk the benefit of the doubt after what the mentioned old Sister has told me. This is indeed a "satanic provocation" (Fr. Rydzyk's words), to remove a very "uncomfortable" person, Fr. Rydzyk. But I must add: despite all his erudition and media savy, this saintly priest has miscalculated his ability to wiggle himself away from the consequences of his latest words! Jesus called the Pharisees "foxes and a brood of vipers."But there were no televisions and radios in His time, and the listeners were few. Today, millions of people can be antagonized by such words ... and Satan knows it ... for Satan is a great media expert. This is why, while I wish and pray that the matter somehow go away, I sense that Fr. Rydzyk may be in deep trouble, and that his days at Radio Maryja may be counted. But one fact will always stand, the truth that the Saints speak, even if they lose their heads, shall remain! I wish Fr. Rydzyk a miracle!

[Pawian]

troubledgoodangel said:

I have done my own research, holding a long conversation with an old nun. She begged me not to believe "these satanic fabrications." All the Polish nuns, she said, listen to Radio Maryja. Fr. Rydzyk is a Saint , like John the Baptist and John Chrysostom, both of whom died a Martyr's death for speaking the truth about the rulers' wives. I agreed with her,

Fr. Rydzyk isn`t a saint. He doesn`t possess this set of virtues which make a saintly person. For example, honesty.

Fr. Rydzyk is a clever businessman who built his medial empire worth a fortune. It is impossible to run a major business in Poland without engaging in sinful actions from time to time. Example:

A few years ago Fr. Rydzyk asked Radio listeners to donate money to the Gdańsk Shipyard which faced the danger of going bankrupt. The listeners answered with a flood of donations, it is estimated that about 40 million dollars were collected by Radio Maryja. However, the shipyard saw nothing of it. The fate of this money is still veiled in mystery and Fr. Rydzyk refuses to comment on it.

Jesus called the Pharisees "foxes and a brood of vipers."

Jesus also said about false prophets to come and warned his disciples not to follow them. What if Fr. Rydzyk is such a false prophet who misleads people and offers them dellusory relief by means of brain washing?

[george]

It still begs me to wonder. Where is the stronger language from the Vatican concerning this renagade priest?

[ludikundera]

I know most people have strong feelings about Rydzyk, but, I dunno, I guess I don't consider him either a saint or a villain.

I disagree with some of what he says and does, but, on the flipside, I like his stance on other issues: the refusal to pay "reparations", for example. And I've found myself taking his side more and more lately, as the attacks on him by people like Adam Michnik (if anyone wants to be critical about a politically-motivated control of media...) increase. But, like with a lot in Polish politics, there's much talk about "corruption" and other big words with little actual proof or facts. As a result, I'm not especially informed about all these controversies other than from reading articles whose conclusions are ideological and which provide no real argument. Seems the winner will be whoever shouts the loudest and the most.

As for the anti-Semitism charges often leveled against Radio Maryja and Rydzyk? So what: are we that far down Orwell's dystopic vision to actually want to accuse and prosecute others for thought crimes? If he ever kills a Jew, charge him with murder. If he incites someone else to kill a Jew charge that person with murder. It's a farce to elevate anti-Semitism, or any other "hatred", to some sort of super-crime. Then again, many countries go have "hate crime" laws: meaning it's somehow worse to kill someone because of their race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender than to kill someone for any other reason? I guess I just find that absurd.

And, clearly, Rydzyk and his radio station are popular in Poland. So, why try to close him down, if not to eliminate a political enemy?

I thought Poland was supposed to be democratic country, a capitalist country. If so, if people want Rydzyk, let there be Rydzyk. If people want to pay Rydzyk, then let him be a commodity on the open market. But it's precisely because people are listening that there's a fear of Radio Maryja. The Vatican doesn't want to lose power, the centre-right doesn't want to lose power, and the lefties don't want to lose power. Oh, and there it is: power!

In this power struggle, I'm backing the underdog, the one who's the easiest to criticize and attack: Father Rydzyk.

I'm with troubledgoodangel.

[Pawian]

ludikundera said:

I know most people have strong feelings about Rydzyk, but, I dunno, I guess I don't consider him either a saint or a villain.

If he was a lay politician or businessman, there wouldn`t be any problem. But he is a clergyman, a monk. He is supposed to be tolerant, humble and forgiving. But instead he organizes a festival of hatred on radio waves.

I disagree with some of what he says and does, but, on the flipside, I like his stance on other issues: the refusal to pay "reparations", for example.

What about openly antisemitic contents in many radio programmes? Do you also agree with them?:

Quote:
Listener: "As long as, in such a catholic country, most Polish ministers smell of Jewish bread and onion, Poland will never be Poland."
Fr. Rydzyk, audibly touched: "Thank you." recesja.icm.edu.pl/rm/macacebl.ra

Do you agree when Auschwitz liars such as Ratajczak, Bender and Raina are invited to the studio and are allowed to reject the historical truth about gas chambers and glorify Hitler? With full support of Fr Rydzyk?

Quote from their discussion:

Listener: "I wanted to say that the film Schindler`s List is on the compulsory reading list for students of last grade in primary school.

Ratajczak: " I must say that it is horrible. I also heard that next year they are going to introduce lessons about Jewish holocaust into our school curriculum. These things are so amazing.
recesja.icm.edu.pl/rm/5/listas.ra

More quotes in Real Player on this site:
recesja.icm.edu.pl/rm/wypow.htm

And I've found myself taking his side more and more lately, as the attacks on him by people like Adam Michnik (if anyone wants to be critical about a politically-motivated control of media...) increase.

Do you think that critisizing Radio Maryja for its antisemitism should diminish?

But, like with a lot in Polish politics, there's much talk about "corruption" and other big words with little actual proof or facts.

Where is the money collected for the shipyard?

As for the anti-Semitism charges often leveled against Radio Maryja and Rydzyk? So what: are we that far down Orwell's dystopic vision to actually want to accuse and prosecute others for thought crimes?

I think you don`t realise that the thought is first, then it is followed by the act. Hitler also had an idea, he comprised it in Mein Kampf and it waited for 11 years to be put into action. It started with breaking windows in Jewish shops and it ended with ashes of 6 million victims.

Besides, Poland is a special country when it comes to Jews. Nazis organised Holocaust here, Poland has forever become the giant cemetary for Jews. We should respect that.
There were also acts of Polish antisemitism, both before the war and after it, including massacres of Jews.
It`s high time to close down the chapter of Polish antisemitism, but Radio Maryja still incites this prejudice. Worse, it whitens the Nazis and blackens the Jews.

And, clearly, Rydzyk and his radio station are popular in Poland. So, why try to close him down, if not to eliminate a political enemy?

That is the greatest tragedy. The radio is so popular and it can be so poisonous at times.

In this power struggle, I'm backing the underdog, the one who's the easiest to criticize and attack: Father Rydzyk.

He isn`t an underdog. He is a sly fox - a rich businessman who earns a lot of money exploiting people`s need for a catholic station and who has ambition to influence politicians and run the country affairs.

BTW, he is also a monk.

[ludikundera]

If he was a lay politician or businessman, there wouldn`t be any problem. But he is a clergyman, a monk. He is supposed to be tolerant, humble and forgiving. But instead he organizes a festival of hatred on radio waves.

They're all politicians, to me. I don't discriminate. But I also don't have anything against discrimination. People will hold others to whatever standards they choose, and judge them based on how they measure up to those standards.

What about openly antisemitic contents in many radio programmes? Do you also agree with them?

Whether I agree with his ideas or not is irrelevant. I agree with the notion people should be able to express themselves however they please. Be they Father Rydzyk or anyone else.

The problem with censoring some "offensive" things, and not others (because everything is bound to "offend" someone), is that there's a choice to make, and someone has to make that choice. The person who does, does so for a specific reason. I distrust this choice-maker. Fairness: either everyone shuts up, or everyone gets a chance to talk. I vote for the second option. The first is also fair. But to select who gets to talk and who doesn't is unacceptable to me. I will never support the denial of anyone's right to speak.

Obviously, in a school curriculum, there's limited time, therefore limited things to teach. Should Schindler's List be shown to kids? I don't know. I watched it in high school. It's a dreadfully glossy and manipulative Hollywood movie about a serious topic. And there are surely shorter ones. But it's entertaining, and perhaps it goes down easy.

The real problem I have with using movies to teach is that they're imaginings of real events. They're fake. But because they're images, that often gets lost. Schindler's List should not become the official version of the Holocaust, as it has for many people. We should remember that it's ultimately a product created to make money.

Do I think the Holocaust should be taught? Yes. I believe history should be taught. However, I don't think it should be afforded sacred cow status when it is taught.

Do you think that critisizing Radio Maryja for its antisemitism should diminish?

Nope, not at all. People should be critical of whatever they like.

Where is the money collected for the shipyard?

I have no idea. I had no idea there was money for a shipyard before reading this thread. Like I said, I'm largely uninformed about tangible facts because most critics of Radio Maryja either criticize anti-Semitism or take the notion that Rydzyk is corrupt on faith. I would gladly read something about this shipyard affair if you'd link me.

I think you don`t realise that the thought is first, then it is followed by the act. Hitler also had an idea, he comprised it in Mein Kampf and it waited for 11 years to be put into action. It started with breaking windows in Jewish shops and it ended with ashes of 6 million victims.

And I think you don't realize that the step between thought and action is a rather large one to take. If you want proof, look at all the anti-Semitism you claim existed in Poland and then look at the few incidents of actual murder. In fact, look farther away, look at Yad Vashem. Does that prove that all Poles loved Jews and wanted to save them?

Ideas are many, thoughts are many. But it's actions that are judged and punished. Should we jail everyone who thinks about murder or theft or rape? I don't think so. I think we should try and jail those who commit murder and theft and rape.

Your statement is wrong: thought is first, and it can be followed by the act. Since not every bad thought turns into a bad deed, I don't think it's quite right to punish the thought.

But you have your right to support a thought police. Just be aware that that is what you are doing. Furthermore, it's a selective thought police you advocate; or, in Rydzyk's case, a speech police. You do not want people saying what you believe is wrong (on whatever grounds: moral, ethic, civic). But, you know what? Hitler had a thought police. So did Stalin. And do you know what it led to? Totalitarianism.

Besides, Poland is a special country when it comes to Jews. Nazis organised Holocaust here, Poland has forever become the giant cemetary for Jews. We should respect that.
There were also acts of Polish antisemitism, both before the war and after it, including massacres of Jews.
It`s high time to close down the chapter of Polish antisemitism, but Radio Maryja still incites this prejudice. Worse, it whitens the Nazis and blackens the Jews.

Israel is a special country for the Jews. It's their country. Poland is a special country for Poles, whatever ethnicity or religion they are. Six million Poles died during WWII. And by died, I mean they were killed by Germans. Roughly, half of these Poles were Jewish and half were Catholic (or non-Jewish as we like to say).

Poland may be the great Jewish cometary for some, and they are entitled to hold that belief and respect it. However, I kindly request that no one force me accept that idea as truth. What a nation means to someone is somewhat too ephemeral and personal to standardize.

I wonder if you'd be as eager to, let's say, argue that, for Poles, Germany is a special country because it's a country that mobilized for war against Poland in 1939 and proceeded to murder six million of her inhabitants! I think that all Germans should respect the idea that Germany has forever become the great killer of Poles.

I also notice you like to use the term Nazi instead of the word German. Which is fine, if you want to see history in terms of political parties rather than nations. But, when you speak of, for example, interwar Polish anti-Semitism, shouldn't you be calling it Endek anti-Semitism?

That is the greatest tragedy. The radio is so popular and it can be so poisonous at times.

I've not doubt that, to some, Radio Maryja's popularity is a tragedy. It can be painful when you're convinced on a point, convinced that it's right and just, only to see a large number of others who disagree with you.

He isn`t an underdog. He is a sly fox - a rich businessman who earns a lot of money exploiting people`s need for a catholic station and who has ambition to influence politicians and run the country affairs.

The whole lot of them are sly foxes. Rydzyk is such a target that he appears as the underdog of sly foxes, though.

But, as the famous saying goes:

"Comfort the afflicted, and afflict the comforted"

If that also means defending free speech, free thought and free expression, then so the better. And, if Rydzyk ever gained some kind of political power, then I'm quite sure I'd be defending those whom he would be trying to silence.

f*** the Jews, f*** Rydzyk. f*** whomever you want. That's the f*** point.

^
LOL!

I see that this board has even managed to put its own version of censorship on words it deems inappropriate! How f*** fitting of a society that's so numbly willing to put a noose around it's own head, thinking it's all for the greater good. Welcome to the world of doublethinkers*!



* Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them. (from George Orwell)

[pieter]

ludikundera said:

I know most people have strong feelings about Rydzyk, but, I dunno, I guess I don't consider him either a saint or a villain.

I disagree with some of what he says and does, but, on the flipside, I like his stance on other issues: the refusal to pay "reparations", for example. And I've found myself taking his side more and more lately, as the attacks on him by people like Adam Michnik (if anyone wants to be critical about a politically-motivated control of media...) increase. But, like with a lot in Polish politics, there's much talk about "corruption" and other big words with little actual proof or facts. As a result, I'm not especially informed about all these controversies other than from reading articles whose conclusions are ideological and which provide no real argument. Seems the winner will be whoever shouts the loudest and the most.

As for the anti-Semitism charges often leveled against Radio Maryja and Rydzyk? So what: are we that far down Orwell's dystopic vision to actually want to accuse and prosecute others for thought crimes? If he ever kills a Jew, charge him with murder. If he incites someone else to kill a Jew charge that person with murder. It's a farce to elevate anti-Semitism, or any other "hatred", to some sort of super-crime. Then again, many countries go have "hate crime" laws: meaning it's somehow worse to kill someone because of their race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender than to kill someone for any other reason? I guess I just find that absurd.

And, clearly, Rydzyk and his radio station are popular in Poland. So, why try to close him down, if not to eliminate a political enemy?

I thought Poland was supposed to be democratic country, a capitalist country. If so, if people want Rydzyk, let there be Rydzyk. If people want to pay Rydzyk, then let him be a commodity on the open market. But it's precisely because people are listening that there's a fear of Radio Maryja. The Vatican doesn't want to lose power, the centre-right doesn't want to lose power, and the lefties don't want to lose power. Oh, and there it is: power!

In this power struggle, I'm backing the underdog, the one who's the easiest to criticize and attack: Father Rydzyk.

I'm with troubledgoodangel.

After reading everything I have to say that I am with
Pawian. I liked reading this discussion though!

[Pawian]

george said:

It still begs me to wonder. Where is the stronger language from the Vatican concerning this renagade priest?

The Vatican seldom uses stronger language. But they are aware of the problem of Radio Maryja. In 2006 they sent a critical letter to the Polish Church:

www.warsawvoice.pl/view/11101

CONTROVERSY
God Ain't a DJ

12 April 2006

The devoutly Catholic Radio Maryja has stirred up trouble for quite a while. The discussion on its activities has been revived by two letters. One came from the Vatican and contained an appeal for the Catholic station to quit politics, the other came from Łódź with a protest from Marek Edelman against anti-Semitic sentiments presented on the air.

This was the first time the Holy See took such a resolute stance on the radio station in Toruń, run by Redemptorist priest Tadeusz Rydzyk. The letter, addressed to the Polish Episcopate and made public April 5, expresses serious reservations about the involvement of Radio Maryja and other associated media (that is, Trwam TV) in the "strictly political" domain, which in particular has been the case recently.

The Vatican's Secretariat of State called on bishops to "act in concordance, to overcome the current difficulties caused by some broadcasts and views of Radio Maryja which fail to take into consideration the justified autonomy of the political domain satisfactorily enough." The letter also contains a reminder of the rule of "the Conference of the Episcopate being responsible for the pastoral activities of national media, even if they are the property of a religious order."

More heat was added to the discussion about Radio Maryja by Marek Edelman, the last living leader of the uprising in the Warsaw Ghetto in 1943. Last week, Edelman accused the radio station of propagating fascism, xenophobia and anti-Semitism. Edelman says some of the broadcasts are no different from the Nazi periodical Der Stürmer which encouraged what was called the ultimate solution to the Jewish issue. Edelman protests against the ideology promoted on Radio Maryja in a letter he wrote to the prime minister and the speaker of the Sejm. He calls for substantial decisions, including closing down the radio station. Edelman complains that the public opinion's repeated interventions in the matter have not brought any results. In his letter, a disgruntled Edelman remarks that the prime minister, the speaker of the Sejm, ministers and some deputies speak on Radio Maryja which, according to Edelman, consolidates the station's standing, makes it come across as reliable and gives the impression that the state seconds its political agenda.

[Pawian]

ludikundera said:

Two more quotes from the radio programmes, with real recordings in Real Player:

Listener: "In general, we, Poles, suffer poverty and hunger because of those Jews who rule us and because of all this masonry." (My w ogole jako Polacy cierpimy nedze, glod wlasnie przez tych Zydow, ktorzy nami teraz rzadza i przez ta cala masonerie)

The answer from speakers: "Thank you, Ms, thank you."
recesja.icm.edu.pl/rm/5/rzadza.ra

Ratajczak: "David Irving is an excellent historian. I wish there were more like him in Poland." ( Davida Irvinga, ..... Zyczylbym sobie, zeby w Polsce bylo tak wielu tak znakomitych historykow wlasnie jak David Irving).
recesja.icm.edu.pl/rm/5/sprirvng.ra

There are many more but I am not going to lose time and translate all of them. It is just not worth. You can listen or read them yourself if you understand Polish. www.radiomaryja.pl.eu.org/nagrania/index.php

One conclusion from these recordings: the radio station propagates antisemitic and anti-German prejudice. The word Jew or Jewish is openly associated by listeners and radio speakers with derogatory meaning. Those Polish politicians who don`t share the radio views are called Jews. Jews are accused of everything wrong that has taken place in Poland for several decades.

I must say it makes me so sick. As a believer, I feel really bad when the real word of God is distorted and ridiculed by those false prophets from the radio station.

[Pawian]

ludikundera said:

I know most people have strong feelings about Rydzyk, but, I dunno, I guess I don't consider him either a saint or a villain.

I'm with troubledgoodangel.

You are not consequent. In your first words you consider him neither a saint nor a villain and in your last words you declare your agreement with our befriended poster who considers Rydzyk a saint: "But one fact will always stand, the truth that the Saints speak, even if they lose their heads, shall remain! I wish Fr. Rydzyk a miracle!"

So, is he a saint or not?

What exactly do you agree on with Troubledgoodangel?

[Pawian]

We have already had many discussions about the Radio Maria. This is one of them from 2006:
jagahost.proboards79.com/index.cgi?board=polarch&action=display&thread=1146933219

Has anyone of us changed their views since then? I haven`t.

Jaga wrote:
"I do not personally agree with 80-90 % of what father Rydzyk says, but he gives a voice in his program to some people who are politically incorrect but it does not always mean wrong. So, I start to believe that the mass-media should allow Radio Maryha to function just as a voice for a right wing. So, that it would counter-balance other opinions, even if their opinions seems to be overly patriotic, nationalistic and xenophobic.

Just like American needed its FoxNews - Poland needs Radio Maryja. Do you agree with me? Why everybody has to be politically correct and believe only one site of the story, we need sometimes to check the other versions, to make sure that we do not miss the truth!

George:
The church should not be involved in politics. I don't agree with you and neither does the Vatican. Radio Marija is not Fox News. This has nothing to do with " political correctness "., it has to do with the Church being involved with politics in any particular country. John Paul admonished South American country priests for getting too involved in their countries political issues. I think he was gun shy with Radio Marija, but their is a new sheriff in town which may radically change this situation. When any religion gets too involved in their countrys politics it almost always backfires.

Pieter:
I think that radio Mariya should be able to broadcast as it does, but in a free society with freedom of expression and a well organised press there should be counterveiling powers. I dislike it when a government and a radio station behave like a married couple, because a press shoul be independant from the state, like the seperation of church and state. So Radio Mariya may exist from me but it may not be public relations, communication (propaganda) tool of the government.
If Radio Mariya is Xenophobic and anti-semitic like I heard, thasn it is good that people speak against it. That is just the use of freedom of speech in Poland.
And that the Vatican opposed the radio station is because it says that it is Catholic, but the message is differant as that of the church.


Hollister
I may not understand all the nuance here - but it seems that part of the problem is that Radio Maryha and Father Rydzyk want it both ways. They want to have the authority of the Catholic Church behind them as legitimization of their message but they do not want the interference of the Church in what they see as their public right to free speech. They can't have it both ways - they should bow to the authority of the Church or totally separate from any Church affiliation and go on as a "public" private radio station.

Pawian
May be not all Poland. It is mostly elderly people, women, who listen to and support the Radio and Father Rydzyk. They would do everything what he says. For them the Radio is a chance to relieve the stress connected with aging and the coming end of life. Those women strongly believe that by listening to the catholic Radio station they become more pious, have a closer contact with God, or even they are able to make up for the sins they committed in the past.
They are so afraid of dying and meeting St. Peter at the gates of Heaven and the result of this meeting : will I be allowed in or not?

It always irritated me, and I laughed at it too, how elderly people turn to the church/priests/faith before passing away. Sometimes I wonder if I will become like them when I am older. I wouldn`t like that.
For the sake of those old people, I would allow the Radio station to broadcast free. However, the Radio can`t be nationalistic or anti-semitic, as it has happened there many times.
E.g., when there was a campaign before the presidential elections a few years ago, Father Rydzyk used to denounce certain candidates he didn`t like as Jews or of Jewish origin. That was so pathetic.
So far both the Radio and its critics has been allowed to speak freely. There is a freedom of speech in Poland. However, we must be on alert not to lose this freedom, I suppose the right wingers would like to curb those who critisize not only the Radio but the government and ruling party too. And it is easy to complain both about certain politicians and the Radio because they cooperate with each other.
The mesage is mostly catholic but sometimes it is not christian.

[ludikundera]

You are not consequent. In your first words you consider him neither a saint nor a villain and in your last words you declare your agreement with our befriended poster who considers Rydzyk a saint: "But one fact will always stand, the truth that the Saints speak, even if they lose their heads, shall remain! I wish Fr. Rydzyk a miracle!"

So, is he a saint or not?

What exactly do you agree on with Troubledgoodangel?

I don't think he's either a villain or a saint. He's a politician.

I'm with troubleddangel in defending Rydzyk. Even though I'm fairly certain we don't share the same motivation(s) for doing so.

[ludikundera]

the radio station propagates antisemitic and anti-German prejudice. The word Jew or Jewish is openly associated by listeners and radio speakers with derogatory meaning. Those Polish politicians who don`t share the radio views are called Jews. Jews are accused of everything wrong that has taken place in Poland for several decades.

My two letter question: so ?

I see your quotations from Radio Maryja showing the radio station to be anti-Semitic. But you leave that as its own conclusion. What I'm asking, simply because I'm curious, is what makes anti-Semitism (or anti-German feelings) so bad?

By the way, a link to the shipyard swindle would still be appreciated.

[Pawian]

ludikundera said:

the radio station propagates antisemitic and anti-German prejudice. The word Jew or Jewish is openly associated by listeners and radio speakers with derogatory meaning. Those Polish politicians who don`t share the radio views are called Jews. Jews are accused of everything wrong that has taken place in Poland for several decades.

My two letter question: so ?

I see your quotations from Radio Maryja showing the radio station to be anti-Semitic. But you leave that as its own conclusion. What I'm asking, simply because I'm curious, is what makes anti-Semitism (or anti-German feelings) so bad?

I have already written it before: instead of hushing down anti-Jewish sentiments in Polish society, Radio Maryja does everything to fuel them up. The demons of antisemitism are fed by Father Rydzyk himself and his acolites. In my opinion it is highly improper and unfair. Why?

Because every encounter with antisemitism in its Polish version makes me sick. Enough explanations?

By the way, a link to the shipyard swindle would still be appreciated.

As for links, they are in Polish only:

This one describes what Radio Maryja treasurer made with one million NFI privatisation coupons which were sent to the station by listeners to save the shipyard. Every coupon was worth about 100 zlotys. The collected coupons occupied the space of a few rooms in the station and finally they were exchanged for shares in the stock market.
Unfortunately, the treasurer invested in only one company. After the buyout of its shares started, the price rocketed and increased a few hundredfold. In order to buy more shares, they had to take a bank loan. Soon the company went bankrupt, the money was lost, and they were left with worthless shares and a loan which was finally paid by the Redemptorist order. The shipyard wasn`t saved, today it is on the verge of real bankruptcy.
wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/wiadomosci/1,53600,3268630.html

In the following article the above news about lost money is corroborated by the Redemptorist order spokesman.
serwisy.gazeta.pl/kraj/1,34397,3269703.html

This article describes another failed investment into a newspaper which went bankrupt shortly after it had been bought by Father Rydzyk. It describes in a funny way how Father Rydzyk and his treasurer brought a few bags of money to the owner of the newspaper and how he received a little shock after seeing a heap of banknotes scattered all over his desk in Al Capone mafia style.
serwisy.gazeta.pl/kraj/1,34308,3276190.html

[ludikundera]

Thanks for the links.

I have already written it before: instead of hushing down anti-Jewish sentiments in Polish society, Radio Maryja does everything to fuel them up. The demons of antisemitism are fed by Father Rydzyk himself and his acolites. In my opinion it is highly improper and unfair. Why?

Because every encounter with antisemitism in its Polish version makes me sick. Enough explanations?

Yes, yes, I realize you don't like Radio Maryja for stirring up anti-Jewish sentiment. That part I understand very clearly.

I'm just unsure of what it is about anti-Jewish sentiment that makes you so sick. I don't mean to attack you or make you angry, I'm just curious and want to understand your point of view.

And it's not just your point of view. Living in North America, I get told quite often about the heinous crime of anti-Semitism. Again, I don't understand what makes it so heinous. To me, spray-painting someone's garage with a swastika, for example, is vandalism; nothing less and nothing more. And murder is murder, no matter the motivation or the victim. And talk is just talk, and thoughts are thoughts, and shouldn't be punished or made illegal.

When you explain that you don't like anti-Semitism because it makes you sick, I have trouble processing that because anti-Semitism doesn't make me sick. Peanut butter makes me sick, but there's a biological reason for that. Since I don't think people have a biological aversion to anti-Semitism, there has to be some kind of other explanation for their sickness. I've yet to comprehend these other reasons on grounds other than that it's simply forced conditioning.

Which, then, smells of fanaticism. I'm sure America makes Muslim extremists sick, too. And they, too, can't explain why.

I'm not saying you have to accept freedom of speech or freedom of ideas, and you can surely advocate limits to those (in fact, it's good that we are able to be critical of various things!) and argue that people should be restricted from talking about or thinking about certain subjects. I'll disagree with you about such limits, yes, but I will never suggest that our disagreement doesn't have a right to happen, that you shouldn't have a right to voice your opinion, based on my own feelings of what I think should be.

So, in short, no: I don't understand what is so awful about anti-Semitism, or any other "anti-" thoughts and words.

What I do understand is that you don't like Radio Maryja because it is anti-Semitic, and Polish anti-Semitism makes you sick.

The sickness remains a mystery.