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Post by karl on Mar 27, 2022 20:43:55 GMT -7
A few words from a Ukrainian military solder that speaks volumes;
Presenter
karl
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Post by kaima on Mar 28, 2022 7:54:00 GMT -7
 This 28 day of March, 2022 |
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Post by karl on Mar 28, 2022 9:22:01 GMT -7
Kai
It is interesting of your reply and the locations of the various destinations of Ukrainian refugees that have been taken in by those sympathetic nations. By the numbers as indicted, amounts to a sizable number of the home population. But then, who can bring about any blame upon them to save them selves and their respective families?
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Post by kaima on Mar 28, 2022 11:53:17 GMT -7
Kai It is interesting of your reply and the locations of the various destinations of Ukrainian refugees that have been taken in by those sympathetic nations. By the numbers as indicted, amounts to a sizable number of the home population. But then, who can bring about any blame upon them to save them selves and their respective families? Karl, I faced this question in 2015 when I was passing through Budapest, Vienna and then Munich during the surge of Syrian refugees through 4 weeks or so of travel. This is where I had to compete with Syrians for a train ride from Vienna to Munich as well. I stayed near the main train station and so when passing it the next two days would drop in and twice saw trainloads of refugees getting off the trains. It was quite noticeable from the start that there was a disproportionate ratio of young, military aged men. Of course as a good American raised to "defend your country" in time of need, this was surprising. But then I thought: who would they fight for if they stayed home in Syria? A dictator trying to restore power? A Mullah working to tear down the existing and set up his religious state? My conclusion was that I too, would have to choose to leave the country - either to establish a new life or to plan a return later, if circumstances were favorable. At least the Ukrainians have hopes of self governance to fight for! Kai |
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Post by pieter on Mar 28, 2022 15:35:01 GMT -7
Karl & Ron,
Thank you for this interesting thread, video, map with figures and your replies. This is real news about Ukraine. The comparison with the Syrian refugees and your experience with them in Europe is interesting Ron. Today we have both many Syrian refugees and Ukrainian refugees in the Netherlands. I saw quite a few Ukrainian cars with the UK words and the Yellow Blue flag on their cars. I know a few of these Syrian chaps, Syrian Jezidi, Syrian Sunni Arabs, Syrian Druze and Syrian Christian’s (Assyrians, Chaldeans and Syrian Armenian Christian’s.
Cheers,
Pieter
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Post by karl on Mar 28, 2022 16:20:44 GMT -7
An update from Ukrainian solder, Mr. Operator Starisky. With him {Starisky} it would appear is our Ukrainian war front reporter at this time and date with up to date news and accurate information. It is of the most hope and trust this man will stay safe in his home land up to and beyond this war.
Karl
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Post by karl on Mar 28, 2022 17:00:06 GMT -7
Kai and Pieter It has been a few years at present with the numbers of these Syrian refugees with out respite or any indication of them wishing to return to their home land as they seem to have found them selves comfortable here in Europe over that of their own nation. But if they are not careful, their welcome may come to an end as most all good things end in time. This is most evident as a starting point in Denmark {Dansk}. For at present with welcome arms to the Ukrainian refugees, comes to the knock on the Syrian's door that their good times are coming to a close soon to leave Denmark and return to their respective home lands. www.cnn.com/2022/03/10/europe/denmark-refugees-ukraine-syrian-intl/index.htmlKarl |
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Post by kaima on Mar 29, 2022 14:51:54 GMT -7
Kai and Pieter It has been a few years at present with the numbers of these Syrian refugees with out respite or any indication of them wishing to return to their home land as they seem to have found them selves comfortable here in Europe over that of their own nation. But if they are not careful, their welcome may come to an end as most all good things end in time. This is most evident as a starting point in Denmark {Dansk}. For at present with welcome arms to the Ukrainian refugees, comes to the knock on the Syrian's door that their good times are coming to a close soon to leave Denmark and return to their respective home lands. www.cnn.com/2022/03/10/europe/denmark-refugees-ukraine-syrian-intl/index.htmlKarl Karl, I can understand the request of Denmark for refugees to go home. Perhaps the ideal is to allow oppressed people free access to a new life, but nations do have the choice on how much they wish to support people and how much treasure and effort the choose to expend in humanitarian aid, or charity, if you wish to express it in that manner. I also remember the nervousness in Europe when I lived there about admitting Boznia-Herzogovina as a self-governing, Moslem state. Even with Europe as nominally Christian (though they do practice Christian principles and charity more than the self-proclaimed "Christian" USA), they were nervous about including a Moslem state in their midst. On the border is more acceptable, as in Turkey. It just shows the human prejudices and fears we suffer with our human weaknesses. First with the Syrian refugees and now with the Ukrainian refugees, I immediately imagined Europe would be taking advantage of importing young, productive potential future citizens, whose arrival would delay the population collapse that is facing Europe. This is the population problem where there simply are not enough young people to replace the older, working generations; not enough young people to keep the countries running on the standards to which they have become accustomed. Particularly German, having taken in first 800,000 and then another 200,000 Syrian refugees, I had imagined as setting up language and training and certification programs to integrate as many Syrians as possible into Germany. Perhaps they would be the second largest Moslem group in Germany, and their values would change future Germany, but it would maintain Germany as well. I saw that as a long, expensive and at times very difficult tasking, but well within the capabilities of the Germany I used to know. How they HAVE pursued this, and to what degree, I truly do not know. Russia, on the other hand, seems to be following a course of action hastening their suicide as a nation. They are supposed to be the most extreme in population deficit and yet they engage in fratricidal wars that reduce the population of breeding age men & destroy the infrastructure as well as the economic basis of the lands they ostensibly want to conquer and absorb - (Georgia and Ukraine, for example). They seem to work to minimize their gains of conquest. They may win the battles but if they lose population and infrastructure and basic productive economy, then I imagine China eventually moving into eastern Siberia and exploiting resources that are easily beyond Russia's capability to extract or use. This certainly seems to be a no-win for Russia in the long run. Kai |
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Post by Jaga on Mar 30, 2022 22:33:43 GMT -7
Kai, I still remember your posts related to you being in Hungary in the same time when refugees were there. I agree with your conclusions - why Syrians would like to stay and fight. With Ukrainians this is a different story. They have a goal in mind and a not a bad equipped army, while Russians do lack morale and strategy. People call this a Putin war and I think they are right. Russia also lacks the national spirit to continue the war. Nazi Germany was preparing their citizens for many year with growing nationalistic propaganda, the same was during communism in Stalin' Russia. Putin did not do this, in spite of being in lead for many years. I think he did expect that Ukraine would just agree to become a part of Russia without too much fight when they see Russian tanks, but this did not work.
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Post by karl on Apr 3, 2022 16:53:44 GMT -7
Kai
My self do appreciate your realistic view of the currant and present situations in our portion of Europe. It seems as if it is our fate of such wars to pop up such as the present Russian/ Ukrainian situation. If this will stay confined to those regions as at present between Russia and Ukraine all though not good, still best to keep it confined to then burn its self out.
In as much to Russia, yes I do agree, it seems that state by the state of each respective leadership, is trying to destroy its self. At least this is what appears from the out side as a side view. For some reason my self have no direct explanation for, of the Ukrainians and Russian people I have had the occasion to meet, was on good terms with forming good friendships between us. With the English language as a universal language, conversations were put to good use. I was to learn very early on that most of those Russians and Ukrainians were very realistic and as a bonus to learn from each other what life was like in the present for them and us as Western Europeans. Rather it made things different or not, my self do not regulate them as to their nationality, but as people with similar situations of making a living and trying to live on our respective incomes. But, for the most part to stay away from politics and their reasons of travel out side their respective home lands.
AS above, the people of my meeting were adults, kids and young people have their own language they them selves know as to confuse us more mature folks.
What you have brought up as possibly a situation that could solve in self, is the labour situation in Germany. This would be the unresolved situation of the electronic and related industries. There is simply a shortage of trained people to operate the various CNC type of manufacturing. For to stay competitive, many of the high productive firms use robotic production equipment and this requires trained operators and people trained in setting up and creating the computer programmes to then down load in to the machines. These various new Syrian Germans if properly trained, could very well fill those positions. It is a situation of proper use of available human resources.
Our future is what we make it to be..
Karl
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