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Post by pieter on Jul 20, 2023 10:16:24 GMT -7
NOS News• today, 15:37Dutch Labour Party and GreenLeft leaders support Timmermans' candidacyEuropean Commissioner Frans Timmermans has the best chance of becoming the leader of the first joint PvdA/GroenLinks list for the parliamentary elections in November. He presented himself as a candidate this morning.
Prominent PvdA (Labour Party) members such as Rotterdam mayor Aboutaleb, Amsterdam alderman Moorman and current party chairman Kuiken have expressed their support for Timmermans today. They don't want to themselves.
Moorman has considered running for office, but is refraining from doing so. "Frans is a great candidate. It is my fervent wish that we unite now and ensure a fantastic election result," she said.'Perfect Prime Minister'Franciscus Cornelis Gerardus Maria (Frans) Timmermans (born 6 May 1961) is a Dutch politician and diplomat serving as Executive Vice President of the European Commission for the European Green Deal and European Commissioner for Climate Action in the von der Leyen Commission since 2019. Aside from his native Dutch, Timmermans is fluent in English, French, German, Italian and Russian.Kuiken, who has recently worked with Klaver to combine the forces of the two left-wing parties, is also enthusiastic about Timmermans' candidacy. "I am very happy with it. My great support for his candidacy."
GroenLinks prominents are also positive about Timmermans' candidacy. "This election gives us the unique opportunity to change the course of the Netherlands and usher in a new era," said foreman Jesse Klaver. "Frans Timmermans is absolutely the perfect prime minister for that." Group chairman of GroenLinks in the European Parliament Bas Eickhout "wholeheartedly" supports Timmermans' choice.Party leader electionsThe PvdA has not had good experiences with party leader elections. At the end of 2016, a fierce battle broke out between the then leader Samsom and Deputy Prime Minister Asscher. Asscher won, Samsom retired and the PvdA suffered its biggest election defeat ever. Of the 38 seats, 9 remained.
On Monday, members of the two left-wing parties voted en masse for a joint list: 91.8 percent of the participating GroenLinks members voted in favor and 87.9 percent of the PvdA members.
Opposing candidates have until August 4 to apply. The chance is extremely small that there are still major contenders among them.
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Post by pieter on Jul 20, 2023 10:35:19 GMT -7
EU commissioner Frans Timmermans to head back to Dutch politicsJuly 20, 2023Frans Timmermans in Limburg earlier this week. Photo: Marcel van Hoorn ANPEuropean commissioner Frans Timmermans has put himself forward to lead the joint PvdA/GroenLinks campaign for the November general election and has told commission president Ursula von der Leyen that he is planning to quit, the Volkskrant reported on Thursday.
Timmermans, 62, is a former MP for the PvdA and served as foreign affairs minister in Mark Rutte’s second cabinet, but left in 2014 to take up a job at the European Commission.
He is currently deputy chairman of the commission and in charge of the block’s Green Deal, which aims to make the EU climate neutral.
“It is time the Netherlands became united again instead of fracturing even more,” Timmermans told broadcaster NOS in an interview. “We must make sure the country regains its confidence,” he said.
Timmermans said the Netherlands is facing “huge challenges” such as climate change, war on the borders of Europe and inequality. “We can only solve this by standing shoulder to shoulder,” he said.
On immigration Timmermans said he favoured a “strict but just” policy. “But don’t talk to me about separating families because that wouldn’t happen on my watch,” he said, referring to the family reunification issue which put paid to the current cabinet.
Timmermans, who would bring a wealth of experience to the job, is the first person to come forward as a potential joint campaign leader for the GroenLinks/PvdA slate.
Amsterdam’s PvdA leader Marjolein Moorman said last week she would think about potentially going for the role over the summer but according to the Volkskrant, has thrown her weight behind Timmermans.
Earlier this week, GroenLinks leader Jesse Klaver said that much as he would like the job, he feels it should be done by a new face.
The Volkskrant said the two parties leaderships are set to endorse Timmermans candidacy in August and are keen to avoid a destructive leadership contest.
Members of the two parties have also voted overwhelmingly in favour of the partial merger and two opinion polls so far indicate it could be a big vote winner.
The election campaign would see Timmermans pitted against the VVD’s favoured candidate, justice minister Dilan Yesilgöz and the BBB’s Caroline van der Plas.
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Post by pieter on Jul 20, 2023 11:25:51 GMT -7
Folks,
In the Dutch and European context, and in the regional, local and national Dutch context Timmermans is not my candidate. I would have prefered the International diplomat Sigrid Kaag or Dilan Yeşilgöz-Zegerius as the next Dutch prime minister. Timmermans is a Southerner and I am a Northerner or Holland Dutch in the Netherlands context, and Timmermans is a Limburgian, South-Eastern Dutch. There are all kind of weird things that can play a role, in liking or disliking a person, regional vote and ideological and financial, economical and fiscal vote. Timmermans with Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte and Russian President Vladimir Putin, 6 March 2013An Eastern Catholic like, having grown up in de Calvinist Protestant South Western Zeelandic Coastal Peninsula, being heavily influence by Western Dutch Hollandic (Protestant) roots from my fathers side and Amsterdam and The Hague heritage, will not easily vote for a Soft-G speaking Catholic Southerner. These are half Belgians we mockinlgy say with our arrogant hard G- Northern and Western Dutch. Ah, eh, Timmermans is a very good guy, but he is a Limburgian. I am kidding you folks, the best woman or man has my vote whether he is a Frisian Hillbilly, an Eastern Saxon Peasent or a half Belgian Limburger or Brabander from the South. It is true that Holland in the West and the people of the Randstad region are the center of the world and that the rest of the Netherlands; South, East and North, are seen as less important by the Holland and Utrecht people of the West and the North. The Powerful West with the largest population. This pisses off the people of the North, East and South, and they often think and say these arrogant bastards of the Randstad and the Holland region in the West. Most politicians are from that Western Holland region and the Southerners, Easterners and Northerners do not like that and say that out loud.
Randstad
The Randstad ("Rim City" or "Edge City") is a roughly crescent- or arc-shaped conurbation in the Netherlands, that houses almost half the country's population. With a central-western location, it connects and comprises the Netherlands' four biggest cities (Amsterdam, Rotterdam, The Hague, and Utrecht), their suburbs, and many towns in between, that all grew and merged into each other. Among other things, it includes the Port of Rotterdam (the world's busiest seaport outside Asia), the Port of Amsterdam (Europe's fourth-busiest seaport), and Amsterdam Airport Schiphol (the busiest airport in Europe by aircraft movements). With a population of approximately 8.4 million people it is one of the largest metropolitan regions in Europe, comparable in population size to the Rhine-Ruhr metropolitan region or the San Francisco Bay Area, and covers an area of approximately 11,372 km2 (4,391 sq mi).
Holland
Holland is a geographical region and former province on the western coast of the Netherlands. Holland is part of the larger Randstad region together with the Utrecht and Flevoland Provinces. From the 10th to the 16th century, Holland proper was a unified political region within the Holy Roman Empire as a county ruled by the counts of Holland. By the 17th century, the province of Holland had risen to become a maritime and economic power, dominating the other provinces of the newly independent Dutch Republic.
The area of the former County of Holland roughly coincides with the two current Dutch provinces of North Holland and South Holland into which it was divided, and which together include the Netherlands' three largest cities: the capital city (Amsterdam), the home of Europe's largest port (Rotterdam), and the seat of government (The Hague). Holland has a population of 6,583,534 as of November 2019, and a population density of 1203/km2.
Frans Timmermans
Frans Timmermans previously served as First Vice-President to Jean-Claude Juncker and European Commissioner for Better Regulation, Interinstitutional Relations, the Rule of Law and the Charter of Fundamental Rights from 2014 to 2019. He was the lead candidate of the Party of European Socialists (PES) for President of the European Commission in the European election that was held in May 2019.Timmermans with President of the European Commission Jean-Claude Juncker and Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte, 7 January 2016Timmermans was Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Netherlands from 2012 to 2014 in the Second Rutte cabinet and State Secretary for Foreign Affairs from 2007 to 2010 in the Fourth Balkenende cabinet, in charge of European Affairs. He was a member of the Dutch House of Representatives for the Labour Party from 1998 to 2007 and again 2010 to 2012. He was a civil servant in the diplomatic service of the Netherlands from 1987 to 1998, when he became active in politics. Timmermans with US Secretary of State John Kerry at the 2014 Nuclear Security SummitFolks Frans Timmermans would be an excellent leader of the PvdA/GroenLinks party combination and probably a good Prime minister. He knows his languages, knows the international stage, knows the political field work from his time and carreer within the Dutch Labour Party. He is not of my political party, but he would certainly be a good prime minister. So if not Caroline van der Plas of the Farmer Citizens Movement (BBB) or Dilan Yeşilgöz-Zegerius becomes the next prime minister, it could well be that Frans Timmermans will become the next Prime Minister. But I do believe the left is to weak. And if dissident Christian Democratic CDA politician Pieter Omtzigt would start his own (Populist) political party he would gain 29 seats, and would become a major player and that might change the whole Dutch political landscape once again. There were talks between van der Plas (BBB) and Omtzigt (Independent) about whether Omtzigt would join van der Plas's BBB party. Omtzigt wants to stay Independent and thinks about his own political party. Omtzigt is extremely popular in the Netherlands. Especially because he is an anti-establishment candidate whom fights for the underdog, the common man against the political elites. Pieter OmtzigtPieter Herman Omtzigt (born 8 January 1974) is an independent Dutch politician who has served as a member of the House of Representatives since 2003 apart from a short interruption between June and October 2010.
In his political work, Omtzigt focuses on matters of taxes and pensions. He rose to prominence for his role in uncovering the childcare benefits scandal.Pieter Omtzigt (left) talks with Caroline van der Plas, the leader of the Farmer Citizens Movement (BBB)Political careerHouse of RepresentativesIn parliament, Omtzigt currently serves on the Committees on European Affairs, Foreign Affairs, Housing and Kingdom Services, Social Affairs and Employment, Finance and Public Expenditure. From 2017, he served as the parliament's rapporteur on Brexit.
From 2019, Omtzigt, together with Member of Parliament Renske Leijten (SP), stood up for affected parents in the childcare benefits scandal in which more than 20,000 families were wronged when applying for childcare allowance. In the end, civil servants and (former) ministers were heard by the parliamentary questioning committee on Childcare Allowance, which ultimately led to the fall of the third Rutte cabinet in January 2021.
In July 2020, Omtzigt was defeated by Deputy Prime Minister Hugo de Jonge in a vote for the position of leader of the Christian Democratic Appeal. Omtzigt was re-elected in the 2021 general election, winning 342,472 preference votes, more than any other non-party leader. Following the election, Omtzigt took time off, after complaining of exhaustion. Despite his leave, he decided to attend his installation on 31 March 2021.
On 25 March 2021, confidential notes from the government formation were revealed to include, among other things, "position Omtzigt, function elsewhere" (Dutch: "positie Omtzigt, functie elders").[8] This prompted a heated debate in parliament and an impasse in the government formation. Amid the continuous news, Omtzigt took a formal leave of absence of four months starting on 25 May. He was temporarily replaced as a member of parliament by Henri Bontenbal.
On 10 June 2021 a 78-page memo by Omtzigt was leaked, addressed to the CDA's Spies-committee that analysed the results of the parliamentary elections of March 2021. Omtzigt lashed out hard at the CDA, group employees and CDA members of parliament who were not named and wrote that he was promised the leadership of the party if Hugo de Jonge would withdraw as party leader. After De Jonge's departure, however, the party leadership was offered to Wopke Hoekstra. According to Omtzigt, that was completely beyond his control. According to Omtzigt, political party members and members of the House of Representatives have described him as a "psychopath, sick man, rabid dog, jerk, disturbed" and "unstable". Some of those claims were added to the memo by Omtzigt in a WhatsApp screenshot. Two days later, Omtzigt announced that he had left the CDA, and that he would continue as an independent member of parliament after his leave of absence.Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of EuropeIn addition to his role in parliament, Omtzigt has been serving as member of the Dutch delegation to the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (PACE) since 2004. He is currently a member of the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights; the Committee on the Honouring of Obligations and Commitments by Member States of the Council of Europe (Monitoring Committee); the Sub-Committee on Human Rights; the Sub-Committee on the implementation of judgments of the European Court of Human Rights; and the Sub-Committee on the Rights of Minorities.
In his capacity at the Parliamentary Assembly, Omtzigt has served as the Assembly's rapporteur on mass surveillance since 2014. He has also been the Parliamentary Assembly’s General Rapporteur on the protection of whistleblowers since 2021.
Omtzigt has also served as rapporteur on the case of the car bombing of journalist Daphne Caruana Galizia (2018), justice for the victims of ISIL (2019); and on Poland (2019). Between 2016 and 2017, he prepared the Assembly's proposal on an Investment Court System (ICS) for arbitrating in commercial disputes between states and foreign investors.Political positionsOmtzigt was seen as representative of the CDA's eurosceptic Right wing. He has been critical of European Central Bank policies and, in 2020, pushed his party to support the idea of the Netherlands opting-out of unwanted EU programs.ControversyIn 2017, media in the Netherlands described how fake news reports of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 crash were propagated with the support of Omtzigt who introduced a Russian man as an "eyewitness" of the crash on a public expert debate in May 2017. The man, who was an asylum-seeker from Ukraine, never witnessed the crash, and his speech, texted to him by Omtzigt prior to the interview, repeated one of the Russia-promoted versions of Mig jets downing the Boeing. Shortly thereafter, journalists determined that R. had not been at home on the night of the crash and he had already been interviewed by officials who had discounted him as a witness. He acknowledged via Twitter that he had acted carelessly and a few days later resigned from the spokesperson for the MH17 file. Comment PieterSo Frans Timmermans must be a strong man, because he has to compete with the largest party, the center right Liberal VVD party, with the center left social Liberal D66 party which also attracts leftist and liberal votes, he will have fierce competition from the left from the Socialist Party (SP), the Party for the Animals, Denk (Think; the Migrant Populist party) and the far left BIJ1 party (which is a Anti-racist, Black Lives Matter, Afro-Dutch interest, Anti-Zionist -The party advocates for the independence and recognition of the State of Palestine-, Feminist, LGBTIQ+, Marxismt, Anti-capitalist, Leftwing Socialist, Intersectionalist and Dutch republican -Anti-monarchy, anti-Royal Orange family- political party) which is popular amongst leftist University students, Black intellectuals, BDS activists (Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions -of Israel-), Feminists, Transgenders, and some leftwing Academics.
From the Right Frans Timmermans of course will be attacked by Geert Wilders, Thierry Baudet, Caroline van der Plas, Pieter Omtzigt, JA21 (Joost Eerdmans and Annabel Nanninga) and the Christian Democratic party CDA. Frans Timmermans knows how to fight, but the Dutch elections will be a hot and fierce battle. You have to be tough today to survive in Dutch politics, European politics and American politics. Everywhere there is extreme polarisation, hatred, irritated and frustrated guys, threats and death threats and therefor protection of politicians.
Pieter
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Post by pieter on Jul 20, 2023 11:31:27 GMT -7
Interview with a South Eastern Dutch Limburgian Broacast Corporation
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Post by pieter on Jul 20, 2023 12:26:31 GMT -7
During the 'Day of the German Language' on April 19, 2012 at the Deltion College in Zwolle, Member of Parliament Frans Timmermans spoke about the importance of the German language for the Netherlands and why he finds it so bad when Dutch and Germans communicate with each other in 'poor English'. The event was organized by the German Action Group, consisting of the Dutch-German Chamber of Commerce (DNHK), the Germany Institute Amsterdam (DIA), the Goethe-Institut Netherlands and the German Embassy in The Hague.
Why German says the woman who starts the debate. `Our neighbours I would say, but there are much more reasons why Dutch people should learn good and proper German'. Frans Timmermans mentions that speaking good German is important for Dutch people. Frans Timmermans; "I live near the German border and also I was and am often in German as a Dutch person, every week. Because I biy a lot of [German] books, and in Aache you have the Mayerse Bookstore, the most beautiful books store in the wide region [Netherlands-Germany-Belgium Eurregion] except Maastricht where there is a very good book store. In the border region it is very normal to bilingual Dutch-German and we should make the whole Netherlands bilingual. To the audience; Do you know Otto, the best German teacher in the Netherlands whom was able to cite the most beautiful and best German literature. Otto was a comical Dutch character of the comical duo van Kooten en de Bie, famous in the Netherlands. Here is Otto, the passionate old German teacher. He was a very popular character, because comedian Wim de Bie (1939-2023) played the old fashionate teacher that was angry about the modern times. The conservative old teacher that loves Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, Friedrich Schiller, Heinrich Heine, Hans-Ulrich Treichel, Bertolt Brecht, Johann Gottfried Herder, Friedrich Hölderlin, Rainer Maria Rilke, Erich Kästner and Erich Maria Remarque. The angry old man has become ironical, sarcastic, cynical and enraged about the Americanization of the Netherlands, the bad Dutch people speak [They don't know their own language, grammar and spelling anymore], the bureacracy that destroyed Dutch education and this his German language subject and the lack of interest in his beautiful German language of the modern indifferent and in his eyes stupid generation.;Please adopt that wonderful German language, we should bring German and French to a higher level in the Netherlands. Germans and the Dutch have more in common than we think, the Germans, Dutch and Flemish people are the people who are the closest to eachother in Europe, because they share the Rhineland model. More Germans learn Dutch and Dutch people. We lose the battle folks. That can't be folks, we have to beat the Germans in this. I you want to be successful as a Dutchman in Germany you have to know how Germany works, what gives Germans energy, what motivates Germans. You an only be able to do that if you can read a German newspaper, if you can speak with German people, also with "Kaffee und Kuchen" (Coffee & Cake), if you are able to watch German discussion programs on television, can read Die Zeit, or at least can read a newspaper, than you will learn your German clients, your German business partners, only then you know where your chances lie. And it will become very important in the coming generation exactly because everyone speaks English. That is not a benefit for the Netherlands hat we speak English. Even the French speak bad English. Even the British English are going to speak that bad English, because the rest speaks badly English as well. So we have to deliver something extra, ladies and gentlemen, and that means, learning more German, and learning more French. I think that nobody will be angry that I carry French with me today, French is needed as hard as the German language. And that is why I would like to see, that together with Dutch Politics, together with the Dutch education system (German teachers) and together with Dutch entrepreneurs (the Corporate world), together with the representatives of Germany we will work harder to promote the German language in the Netherlands. For me it is different than for others, because for me is the reading of the German language and living in the German language, a tool to understand a part of my family which live in Germany. To live with Goethe, to live with Herbert Grönemeyer (a German singer, musician, producer, composer and actor, popular in Germany, Austria and Switzerland. He is well known as war correspondent Lieutenant Werner in Wolfgang Petersen's 1981 film Das Boot), to live with the Great German philosophy, that is for me the extra worth of being able to read the German language and speak the German language. En for everyone it will have a different reason, for one person to be able to sport better and for the other to do Business better. We Dutch must win the language battle from the Germans, so more Dutch must be able to speak German than Germans speak Dutch. Timmermans speaks about the past when the Dutch and German borderlanders could understand each other due to the Plattdeutsch they spoke on both sides of the border.
In dialectology, Southeast Limburgish (Dutch: Zuidoost-Limburgs, Ripuarian: Süüdoß-Limburjesch), also referred to as Southern Meuse-Rhenish, is one of the subdivisions of a group of Low Franconian varieties also sometimes called Meuse-Rhenish. Both terms denote a rather compact grouping of varieties spoken in the Limburg and Lower Rhineland regions, near the common Dutch/Flemish (Belgium) and Dutch/German borders. Variants of Frans Timmermans Southeast Limburgish are spoken around Kerkrade, Bocholtz and Vaals in the Netherlands, Aachen in Germany and Raeren and Eynatten in Belgium. In Germany it is sometimes considered as Ripuarian, instead of Limburgish.
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Post by pieter on Jul 20, 2023 12:48:32 GMT -7
He speaks excellent Dutch while my (Pieter's) spoken Dutch is a terrible coal German with a heavy Dutch accent. I don't like speaking German with Germans, Austrians or Swiss people.
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Post by pieter on Jul 20, 2023 12:50:47 GMT -7
English interviews and speeches
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Post by pieter on Jul 20, 2023 12:53:29 GMT -7
The Vice President of the European Commission Frans Timmermans meets with Poland's Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki in Warsaw ahead of talks on controversial reforms of the Polish justice system.
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Post by pieter on Jul 20, 2023 13:02:31 GMT -7
Frans Timmermans as the Dutch Labour Minister of Foreign Affiars
After tensions rose in the east of Ukraine last weekend, the Foreign Affairs Council steps up its efforts to prepare the third phase of sanctions against Russia. But is Russia really to blame? According to the Dutch minister Frans Timmermans, it is quite simple.
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Post by Jaga on Jul 21, 2023 1:15:04 GMT -7
This is very slippery issue. The argument reminds me the obligation by Polish government to teach children Russian. Pan-Slavic, Russian language was for us....since we wer under Russian influence
+++During the 'Day of the German Language' on April 19, 2012 at the Deltion College in Zwolle, Member of Parliament Frans Timmermans spoke about the importance of the German language for the Netherlands and why he finds it so bad when Dutch and Germans communicate with each other in 'poor English'. The event was organized by the German Action Group, consisting of the Dutch-German Chamber of Commerce (DNHK), the Germany Institute Amsterdam (DIA), the Goethe-Institut Netherlands and the German Embassy in The Hague.
Why German says the woman who starts the debate. `Our neighbours I would say, but there are much more reasons why Dutch people should learn good and proper German'. Frans Timmermans mentions that speaking good German is important for Dutch people.+++
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Post by pieter on Jul 21, 2023 12:03:31 GMT -7
Jaga,
I like your historical, social and somewhat sociological and a little bit political reply. You refer to the Communist Polish Peoples Republic times and the Soviet Russian influence in Poland. My mother told me about her education in Communist Poland, and that Marx and Lenin, and Russian language were part of the Curriculum. But my mother also told that nobody was interested in the Marxist-Leninist ideology and neither were a lot of pupils interested in the Russian language. My mother had Russian language lessons, but due to her lack of interest didn't learned the language. The language was seen as the language of the 1939-1941 Soviet occupier and the Soviets whom enforced communism on Poland from 1944/1945 on with the help of Polish Stalinists of first the Communist Polish Workers’ Party (PPR) of Bolesław Bierut and later after the forced merger of the (Non-communist) Polska Partia Socjalistyczna (PPS) with the party of Polish Stalinist thugs and Soviet henchmen of the Polish Workers’ Party (PPR) in December 1948 into the Polska Zjednoczona Partia Robotnicza (PZPR).
Bolesław Bierut ([bɔˈlɛswaf ˈbʲɛrut] (listen); 18 April 1892 – 12 March 1956) was a Polish communist activist and politician, leader of the Polish People's Republic from 1947 until 1956. He was President of the State National Council from 1944 to 1947, President of Poland from 1947 to 1952, General Secretary of the Central Committee of the Polish United Workers' Party from 1948 to 1956, and Prime Minister of Poland from 1952 to 1954. Bierut was a self-educated person. He implemented aspects of the Stalinist system in Poland.[1] Together with Władysław Gomułka, his main rival, Bierut is chiefly responsible for the historic changes that Poland underwent in the aftermath of World War II. Unlike any of his communist successors, Bierut led Poland until his death.
That Stalinist and Communist rule of the PZPR from 1948 until 1989 has surely to do with the aversion of many Poles towards Russian high school lessons in general and the Russian language in particular. And especially the oppression and terror of the notorious Urząd Bezpieczeństwa (UB) (1945–1954) and the Security Service (Służba Bezpieczeństwa, SB, (1956–1990)), which were closely related to the NKVD and it's successor the KGB lead to that aversion to the Russian language and culture.
If you understand that today in 2023, 78 years after the end of the Second World War the resentment and hatred of many Poles against Russians and Germans stil exist, you understand the Polish aversion towards the Russian language as well. Not all Poles, but epxerience of friends of mine, colleagues of mine and me myself (in 2004 and 2006) showed that there was stil an aversion and hatred of Germans and Russians in Poland. The scars of that Second World War and the Soviet influence during the Polish Peoples Republic ((1952–1989) are long. And it started in the Republic of Poland (1947–1952) and the Pre War Second Polish Republic (1918–1939) and existed during the Second World War Soviet (1939-1941) and Nazi occupations. Sometimes the Poles suffered the Soviets more than the Nazi Germans and Austrians, because the Soviet NKVD and Red Army, and Red Communist Peoples militia's and Soviet Partisans were crual to local Polish villages, towns and cities. A lot of Poles suffered during that Soviet occupation of 1939-1941.
Cheers, Pieter
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Post by pieter on Jul 21, 2023 12:22:44 GMT -7
This is very slippery issue. The argument reminds me the obligation by Polish government to teach children Russian. Pan-Slavic, Russian language was for us....since we wer under Russian influence
+++During the 'Day of the German Language' on April 19, 2012 at the Deltion College in Zwolle, Member of Parliament Frans Timmermans spoke about the importance of the German language for the Netherlands and why he finds it so bad when Dutch and Germans communicate with each other in 'poor English'. The event was organized by the German Action Group, consisting of the Dutch-German Chamber of Commerce (DNHK), the Germany Institute Amsterdam (DIA), the Goethe-Institut Netherlands and the German Embassy in The Hague.
Why German says the woman who starts the debate. `Our neighbours I would say, but there are much more reasons why Dutch people should learn good and proper German'. Frans Timmermans mentions that speaking good German is important for Dutch people.+++ Jaga,
In the Netherlands it is different, because in the past we had a heritage of a Dutch upperclass that often spoke and read 4 languages; 1) Dutch, 2) German, 3) French and 4) English. Today students and pupils often only speak English or German with some difficulty and few people speak or read French anymore. That is due to the American influence (Americanization) and the British English influence. For Frans Timmermans as a polyglot and a borderlander it is easy to speak German, also because he has German family.
But I fully and 100% (or even 200 or 300%) agree with Frans Timmermans that it is important for pupils, students and Dutch entrepreneurs and business people to learn and thus study German, read German, learn conversation in German, learn to speak German fluently, learn German literature, German history, culture, mentality, society and people. Why? Because Germany is our most important neigbhour, we share a long border land, we have linguistic similar roots, we are important trade partners (Import & Export), there are a lot of German-Dutch or Dutch-German marriages, we share a Social Market economy and the Rhineland economical model, Germans are the largest group of tourists in the Netherlands, Dutch entrepreneurs live and work in Germany and the German language and culture is interesting.
The Germany–Netherlands border (German: Grenze zwischen Deutschland und den Niederlanden; Dutch: Grens Duitsland-Nederland) consists of a 570-kilometre (350 mi) land and maritime border across the Dollart through the Frisian Islands into the North Sea.
Pieter
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Post by karl on Jul 21, 2023 16:54:51 GMT -7
Pieter
Mr. Timmemans appears to be an interesting fellow and politician, I found him in the first, a bit pushy with pushing all Dutch people to learn German, then to learn he is from a German family. There is a reason for everything, it then is to learn the reason and work with it or against it depending upon who is to gain.
What though strikes my interest, is his lack of concerns to the current issues surrounding Governments stand against the farming community. With this, is the lack of solutions to the currant immigrant issues. People need to eat, and the immigration issue is a hot rock to handle.
I do agree with Jaga as she is much more diplomatic then myself. Whilst of her reply, was to answer questions that have lingered in my mind. For she listed the remaining anger of Polish people against Russians and Germans. For in past, as we have previously exchanged of my past disagreeable meetings with Polish individuals of meeting in past. But then, of all these times, I have enjoyed discussions with Jaga and have gained a great deal of trust with her. For with Jaga and yourself, have been excellent teaching to me of Poland and Polish people.
I was to laugh with you though with your comment of: Frisian Hillbilly, I still am laughing. It is good to laugh once in a while.
Karl
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Post by pieter on Jul 21, 2023 18:02:00 GMT -7
Karl,
This remark about a Frisian Hillbilly was of course ridiculous, you have Hollandic, Zeelandic and Gelderland and Overijssel Hillbillies as well, Maybe much more Hollandic Hillbillies than Frisian Hillbillies probably because there are more Holland people than Frisian people in the Netherlands. As Hillbillies are seen as an unsophisticated country persons, as associated originally with the remote regions of the Appalachians, most Frisians won't fit the description. Because Frisians are developped Farmers, town and city (Leeuwarden, Sneek and Dokkum) people.
Pieter
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Post by pieter on Jul 21, 2023 18:49:29 GMT -7
Karl,
We have had and have exellent Frisian politians. Christian Democratic senator Joop Atsma, the Anti Revolutionary Party minister Johannes Age (Joop) Bakker (Bolsward, 27 mei 1921 – Wassenaar, 3 oktober 2003), resistance fighter, politician and lawjer and head editor of the christian newspaper Trouw (Loyalty) Sieuwert Bruins Slot (Drachten, 8 januari 1906 - Haarlem, 4 april 1972), the Dutch socialist politician and later a social anarchist and anti-militarist Ferdinand Domela Nieuwenhuis ((31 December 1846 – 18 November 1919) whom was a Lutheran. Nieuwenhuis was a Lutheran preacher who, after he lost his faith, started a political fight for workers. He was a founder of the Dutch socialist movement and the first socialist in the Dutch parliament. The Frisian Christian Democratic senator Joop AtsmaThe Frisian Joop Bakker (1921 – 2003) was a Dutch politician of the defunct conservative (Calvinist) Anti-Revolutionary Party (ARP) now merged into the Christian Democratic Appeal (CDA) party and businessman.The Frisian resistance fighter, politician (Anti-Revolutionary Party) and lawjer and head editor of the christian newspaper Trouw, Sieuwert Bruins Slot (1906 - 1972)Ferdinand Domela Nieuwenhuis (1846 – 1919), Dutch socialist politician and later a social anarchist and anti-militarist. In 1888, the Frisian People's Party (FVP) nominated Nieuwenhuis as a candidate for the parliamentary elections in the Frisian constituency of Schoterland. The FVP was a partnership between the Frisian departments of the Kiesbond (Election Union) and the SDB (Social Democratic League). Nieuwenhuis was popular in the Netherlands for his performances during strikes by craftsmen, but also by peat workers. A photograph of him could be found in many workers' homes. Because he stood up for the Frisian peat workers in his life, he was nicknamed Ús Ferlosser (our savior in Frisian). In Heerenveen is the Domela Nieuwenhuismuseum, part of the Museum Willem van Haren.Statue of Ferdinand Domela Nieuwenhuis on the Nassauplein in Amsterdam. He is seen as one of the most important Socialist politicians in the Netherlands, he was quite radical because he represented the Anarchist branch of Dutch Socialism. The Frisian Willem Frederik "Wim" Duisenberg (9 July 1935 – 31 July 2005) was a Dutch politician and economist who served as President of the European Central Bank from 1 June 1998 until 31 October 2003. He was a member of the Labour Party (PvdA).Duisenberg studied Economics at the University of Groningen obtaining a Master of Economics degree and worked as a researcher at his alma mater before finishing his thesis and graduated as a Doctor of Philosophy in Development economics. Duisenberg worked as a financial analyst for the International Monetary Fund (IMF) from January 1966 until March 1969 and as an economist for the Dutch central bank (DNB) from March 1969 until February 1970. Duisenberg worked as a professor of Macroeconomics at the University of Amsterdam from February 1970 until May 1973. After the election of 1972 Duisenberg was appointed as Minister of Finance in the Cabinet Den Uyl taking office on 11 May 1973. The Frisian Pieter Sjoerds Gerbrandy (born Pieter Gerbrandij; 13 April 1885 – 7 September 1961) was a Dutch politician and jurist who served as Prime Minister of the Netherlands from 3 September 1940 until 25 June 1945. He oversaw the government-in-exile based in London under Queen Wilhelmina during the German occupation of the Netherlands.[1] He was a member of the now-defunct Anti-Revolutionary Party (ARP), later merged into the Christian Democratic Appeal (CDA). The Frisian Enneüs "Inne" Heerma (23 December 1944 – 1 March 1999) was a Dutch politician of the Christian Democratic Appeal (CDA) party and management consultant. After the election of 1986 Heerma was appointed as State Secretary for Economic Affairs in the Cabinet Lubbers II, taking office on 17 July 1986. Heerma was appointed as State Secretary for Housing, Spatial Planning and the Environment following the resignation of Gerrit Brokx, taking office on 27 October 1986. The Cabinet Lubbers II fell on 3 May 1989 and continued to serve in a demissionary. Heerma was elected as a Member of the House of Representatives after the election of 1989, taking office on 14 September 1989. Following the cabinet formation of 1989 Heerma continued as State Secretary for Housing, Spatial Planning and the Environment in the Cabinet Lubbers III, taking office on 7 November 1989. After the election of 1994 Heerma returned as a Member of the House of Representatives, taking office on 17 May 1994. After the Leader of the Christian Democratic Appeal and Parliamentary leader of the Christian Democratic Appeal in the House of Representatives Elco Brinkman announced he was stepping down as Leader and Parliamentary leader in the House of Representatives following the defeat in the election, the Christian Democratic Appeal leadership approached Heerma as his successor, Heerma accepted and became the Leader and Parliamentary leader, taking office on 18 August 1994.The Frisian Pauline Christine Krikke (born 9 May 1961) is a Dutch politician who served as mayor of The Hague from 2017 until 2019. A member of the People's Party for Freedom and Democracy (VVD), she previously served as mayor of Arnhem from 2001 to 2013. She started her career as a councillor (1994–1996) and alderwoman in Amsterdam (1996–2001) and was elected to the Senate between 2015 and 2017. I (Pieter) have interviewed her several times and followed her for years in the Arnhem City council. She was a better mayor of Arnhem than she was a mayor in The Hague. Jeltje van Nieuwenhoven (born 2 August 1943) is a retired Dutch politician of the Labour Party (PvdA) and librarian. The Frisian Tom Pitstra (born 6 August 1949, Leeuwarden) is a Dutch politician for the GreenLeft (Progressive) political party.The Frisian Jacques Tichelaar (born 2 January 1953) is a Dutch politician and former trade union leader and educator. He is a member of the Labour Party (Partij van de Arbeid). Since 1 May 2009 he had been the King's Commissioner (governor on behalf of the king) in the province of Drenthe. He resigned on 1 March 2017.Previously he was a teachers' trade union leader from 1994 to 2002 and an MP from 2002 to 2009. He acted as a Parliamentary group leader from 2007 to 2008. In 2002 he received an honorary doctorate in business administration at Kingston University.The Frisian Pieter Jelles Troelstra (Dutch pronunciation: [ˈpitər ˈjɛləs ˈtrulstraː]; 20 April 1860 – 12 May 1930) was a Dutch lawyer, journalist and politician active in the socialist workers' movement. He is most remembered for his fight for universal suffrage and his failed call for revolution at the end of World War I. From 1888 to 1904, Troelstra was married to Sjoukje Bokma de Boer, a well-known children's book writer, under the pen name of Nienke van Hichtum. Viglius (October 19, 1507, Swichum – May 5, 1577) was the name taken by Wigle Aytta van Zwichem, a Dutch statesman and jurist, a Frisian by birth.Anne Vondeling (2 March 1916 – 22 November 1979) was a Dutch politician of the Labour Party (PvdA) and agronomist. Halbe Zijlstra (Dutch pronunciation: [ˈɦɑlbə ˈzɛilstraː]; born 21 January 1969) is a retired Dutch politician who served as Minister of Foreign Affairs from 26 October 2017 to 13 February 2018 in the Third Rutte cabinet. He is a member of the People's Party for Freedom and Democracy (VVD). Zijlstra, a management consultant by occupation, was elected as a member of the House of Representatives after general election of 2006 serving from 30 November 2006 until 14 October 2010 when he was appointed as State Secretary for Education, Culture and Science in the First Rutte cabinet, serving until 5 November 2012. Following the election of 2012, he returned to the House of Representatives, serving from 20 September 2012 until 26 October 2017; he was chosen as parliamentary leader, serving from 1 November 2012 until 23 March 2017. He served as Minister of Foreign Affairs from 26 October 2017 to 13 February 2018.The Frisian Jelle Zijlstra (27 August 1918 – 23 December 2001) was a Dutch politician of the defunct Anti-Revolutionary Party (ARP) now the Christian Democratic Appeal (CDA) party and economist who served as Prime Minister of the Netherlands from 22 November 1966 until 5 April 1967.
So Karl, don't think that I see Frisians as Hillbillies, Punks or Low Lifes. They are highly qualified, respected and independent and strong people. We have had Frisian prime ministers and ministers and state secretaries in the past. We have a Frisian top model, we have Frisian writers, artists, musicians, scientists, entrepreneurs, farmers, mayors, alderman, technicians, city and town people, unoiversity professors, University students, business people. And Dutch Frisians that migrated became great Americans, Canadians, Australians and South Africans. They are strong peoplke, pride people, smart people and very respected in the Netherlands and abroad.Dutch Frisian Top Model Doutzen Kroes, who hasn't forgot her Frisian roots. She is proud of it.Frisian language interview. Seh speaks Frisian with her family, her children and familyAnd my former colleague Esther Dijkstra, a very beautiful Frisian woman, journalist, TV presenter and professional Kite surferCheers, Pieter
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