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Post by pieter on Jun 19, 2024 13:38:55 GMT -7
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Post by pieter on Jun 19, 2024 13:45:55 GMT -7
One large misake in this video, Philips is not a German it is a Dutch multinational conglomerate corporation. Philips was founded in Eindhoven in 1891. Since 1997, its world headquarters have been situated in Amsterdam, though the Benelux headquarters is still in Eindhoven. Philips was formerly one of the largest electronics companies in the world, but is currently focused on the area of health technology, having divested its other divisions. It is funny that this mistakes are made often, because foreigners often mistake Dutch people, Dutch brands, companies and factories for German. As a European I forgive this American. We Europeans often confuse Canadians, Americans, British and Australians, because they are all English speakers, and some non Amerians adopted an American accent. In the same time we can confuse British, Australian and Australian products and companies to be American. BMW and Bayer are German companies, so the guy is 2/3 right.
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Post by pieter on Jun 19, 2024 13:47:34 GMT -7
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Post by pieter on Jun 19, 2024 13:49:50 GMT -7
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Post by karl on Jun 19, 2024 21:12:01 GMT -7
Pieter
Yes, I was to watch all three of the generation war, felt both at times, happy for them and sad when turns of events were against them.
The one I did not watch on purpose, was Down Fall, it was against my inner self as a defeatist film.
In the Band of brothers though, upon watching and hearing the general's speech to his men, I felt a strong sense of pride and yet sadness, for this was at the end of the war and all would be lead apart by both circumstances and events.
The General spoke from his heart and to his men as not only his responsibility to the men who served, but as his love for his men he once was as his duty, to order them into harm's way with hopes they would come out alive.
All in all a nice mix of films that touches both the heart as well as the mind.
Karl
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Post by pieter on Jun 20, 2024 2:47:07 GMT -7
Dear Karl,
As a German with North German (Father) and Danish (Danish frisian mother) roots I understand your feeling and mixed emotions about that terrible, awful and sad war. You lost your Father (Wehrmacht officer) at the Eastern Front. For you personally that war had a great impact. Your father fought for Germany in that war, and he died serving his 'Fatherland'. Afterwards we can judge about that as a 'Right' or 'Wrong' decision, but facts were as they were. People served their various nations and that was that. I share your emotions about Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter (Generation War), because like you "I was happy for them in the beginning when they were friends in Berlin, for a bright moment of celebration, and toasting on 'Next Year Christmas' and sad when turns of events were against them when the nasty tail of war hit them all in various ways'.
Although we are friends, are sympathies in that time may lie on different sides, but we are a product of the post war succes of reconcilliation, mediation, a lasting and just peace, long and stable relations between our countries and between our peoples in the fields of diplomacy, Foreign Affairs, International border crossing Police cooperation (Interpol), cooperation between our Bundeskriminalamts (Federal Criminal Police Offices,in the Dutch sense 'Het Openbaar Ministerie'), our Dutch-German army corps, and next to that our laerger cooperation in Bilateral excellent Dutch-German relations, our cooperation with the EU and NATO, our strong and long trade ties and the many good personal relations between Germans and Dutch people. A beautiful example of that are many succesful German-Dutch marriages. I know you have excellent German-Polish marriages as well, and German-Danish ones (Your parents example).
For me it is 100% clear that I am on the allies side, because If they wouldn't have won, I and my dear sister wouldn't have existed, and my parents wouldn't have met each other in 1966 in Dubrovnik, in the Communist Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (SFRY).
I understand the suffering of all sides better and better the older I get. When I was younger I looked at it only from a one side look of the Winner (Americans, Brits, Canadians and French, the Western allie look), the older I became I saw that it wasn't all black and white, but that this war had shadows and the various colours of the Rainbow. Clear to me was that Nazi Germany had to be defeated, but that the victory of the Soviets in the East brought great suffering to East-Germans, Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, Hungarians, Baltic peoples and Ukrainins as well due to the Stalinist opression and brutality after the war from 1945 to 1953.
Pieter
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Post by karl on Jun 20, 2024 10:33:07 GMT -7
Pieter
I must say of the following was of a thoughtful and mature well spoken repy that must be both admired and fully respected.
"I understand the suffering of all sides better and better the older I get. When I was younger I looked at it only from a one side look of the Winner (Americans, Brits, Canadians and French, the Western allie look), the older I became I saw that it wasn't all black and white, but that this war had shadows and the various colours of the Rainbow. Clear to me was that Nazi Germany had to be defeated, but that the victory of the Soviets in the East brought great suffering to East-Germans, Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, Hungarians, Baltic peoples and Ukrainins as well due to the Stalinist opression and brutality after the war from 1945 to 1953".
Karl
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Post by pieter on Jun 21, 2024 0:02:11 GMT -7
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Post by pieter on Jun 21, 2024 0:03:36 GMT -7
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Post by pieter on Jun 21, 2024 1:31:12 GMT -7
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Post by pieter on Jun 21, 2024 1:32:22 GMT -7
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Post by pieter on Jun 21, 2024 7:23:09 GMT -7
Pieter
I must say of the following was of a thoughtful and mature well spoken repy that must be both admired and fully respected.
"I understand the suffering of all sides better and better the older I get. When I was younger I looked at it only from a one side look of the Winner (Americans, Brits, Canadians and French, the Western allie look), the older I became I saw that it wasn't all black and white, but that this war had shadows and the various colours of the Rainbow. Clear to me was that Nazi Germany had to be defeated, but that the victory of the Soviets in the East brought great suffering to East-Germans, Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, Hungarians, Baltic peoples and Ukrainins as well due to the Stalinist opression and brutality after the war from 1945 to 1953".
Karl Karl,
Thank you! This said, I want to remind the visitors and readers here that it were not only German and Austrian Nazi's and Italian Fascists that spread terror in Europe.
There were many European volunteers and collaborators of the Nazi occupation authorities in many occupied countries, except Poland. In the Netherlands we had Dutch Nazi mayors in many municipalities, we had a Nazified Dutch police, we had paramilitary Nazi militias in addition to the Dutch Waffen SS, the WA (Wehrabteilung in German) and the Landwacht (an armed Dutch Nazi militia with rifles, that hunted resistance fighters, Jews that went into hiding and other opponents of the Nazi regime in the Netherlands), and there were Dutch members of the Gestpo and Sicherheitsdienst (SD). In Croatia you had the Ustaša and in Belgium (Flemish- and Walloon SS), France (Vichy France), Denmark (Frikorps Danmark -a unit of the Waffen SS-), Norway (the Norwegian collaborator Vidkun Quisling (1887-1945) and the Freiwilligen-Legion Norwegen -part of the Waffen-SS), Serbia (Četniks, and the Serbian the paramilitary branch of the fascist political organisation Zbor, Serbian Volunteer Corps (Serbian Cyrillic: Српски добровољачки корпус, Serbian: Srpski dobrovoljački korpus, SDK for short; German: Serbisches Freiwilligenkorps). Zbor was a Far Right Serbian Christian Nationalist, Monarchist, Yugoslav fascist, Corporate statist, National conservative political party which collaborated with the Nazi occupiers -Wehrmacht, Waffen SS, Gestapo, Sicherheitsdienst [SD], Sicherheitspolizei (SiPo) and the Nazi Ordnungspolizei- in Serbia, and the Serbian collaborationist paramilitary Serbian State Guard (Serbian: Srpska državna straža, SDS; Serbian Cyrillic: Српска државна стража; German: Serbische Staatsgarde/Serbische Staatswache), also known as the Nedićevci. The Nedićevci used to impose law and order within the German occupied territory of Serbia during World War II. It was formed from two former Yugoslav gendarmerie regiments, was created with the approval of the German military authorities, and for a long period was controlled by the Higher SS and Police Leader in the occupied territory. It assisted the Germans in imposing one of the most brutal occupation regimes in occupied Europe and helped guard and execute prisoners at the Banjica concentration camp in Belgrade.).
![https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d6/August_Meyszner.jpg/266px-August_Meyszner.jpg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d6/August_Meyszner.jpg/266px-August_Meyszner.jpg) SS-Gruppenführer and Generalleutnant of the Police August Edler von Meyszner (3 August 1886 – 24 January 1947) was an Austrian Gendarmerie officer, right-wing politician, and senior Ordnungspolizei (order police) officer who held the post of Higher SS and Police Leader in the German-occupied territory of Serbia from January 1942 to March 1944, during World War II (1939-1945). He has been described as one of Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler's most brutal subordinates.
![https://assets.efilms.at/_media/movies_wm/_img/Location-Shots_l/EF-NS_029_OeFM_R02-02_21621.jpg](https://assets.efilms.at/_media/movies_wm/_img/Location-Shots_l/EF-NS_029_OeFM_R02-02_21621.jpg) Born in Graz (Styria) as a son of a senior lieutenant. Attendance of the cadet school Vienna. 1914 police service 1914-1918 participation in World War I; commander at the Italian front; after end of the war again police service 1919 had of the Styrian Heimatschutz 1925 NSDAP 1930 MP of the Heimatblock in the Styrian state parliament (Landtag); Landesrat of the Styrian government 1933 Meyszner is deprived of all of his political functions due to illegal NS and Heimatschutz activities; mandatory retirement (NSDAP ban of 1933-06 includes also the Styrian Heimatschutz); deputy SS Brigadenführer central Styria 1934-02 several months of imprisonment due to ongoing NS activities (detention camp: Wöllersdorf); after release SA Brigadenführer central Styria; police puts up “wanted” posters of him; flight to Yugoslavia and Germany; joins the Schutzpolizei Berlin 1935 SS. 1935-05 German citizenship 1937 voluntary judge at the Volksgerichthof 1938 NSDAP (reentry); member of the Reichstag 1938-04-12 commissarial Chief of Staff of the Ordnungspolizei in Austria (Marschgruppe I) located in Vienna; controversies with Ernst Kaltenbrunner 1938/39 Chief of Staff of the Ordnungspolizei Sudetenland 1939/40 Chief of Staff of the Ordnungspolizei Kassel 1940/41 commander in chief of the Ordnungspolizei Norway 1941 lieutenant general of the police and SS Gruppenführer 1942-1944 higher police and SS Gruppenführer Serbia 1945 extradition to Yugoslavia 1946-12-22 Meyszner is sentenced to death by the highest military court in Belgrade; the execution takes place in Belgrade [According to Klee, Personenlexikon zum Dritten Reich, 2007; Moll, Vom österreichischen Gendarmerie-Offizier zum Höheren SS- und Polizeiführer Serbien, 2011.]
The Croatian Ustaša a fascist and ultranationalist organization active, as one organization, between 1929 and 1945, formally known as the Ustaša – Croatian Revolutionary Movement (Croatian: Ustaša – Hrvatski revolucionarni pokret). From its inception and before the Second World War, the organization engaged in a series of terrorist activities against the Kingdom of Yugoslavia, including collaborating with IMRO to assassinate King Alexander I of Yugoslavia in 1934. During World War II in Yugoslavia, the Ustaše went on to perpetrate the Holocaust and genocide against its Jewish, Serb and Roma populations, killing hundreds of thousands of Serbs, Jews, Roma (Yugoslavian Gypsies), as well as Bosniak Muslim and Croat political dissidents.
Bosnia, Albania, Hungary, Slovakia, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Ukraine, Belarus and Russia collaborationist military units, often ethnic Lithuanian, Estonian, Latvian, Ukrainian or Russian also had their Waffen SS divisions (for example the Russian SS Sturmbrigade RONA led by SS-Brigadeführer der Waffen-SS Bronislav Kaminski (1899 -1944), collaborative Police/Gendarmerie- and para military militia which engaged in the Holocaust (Shoah), terror against local farm communities (villages and hamlets that were burned to the ground with it's village people slaughtered, raped and abused -many killed and wounded -those whom escaped-) and town and city populations (in neighborhoods and city centers). And many Kapos in concentration camps were not Germans but Ukrainians and people with other nationalities. Many people forget that about the war. Especially the Croats, Serbs, Ukrainians, Romanians, Russians, Lithuanians, Estonians, and Latvians were vicious against local domestic Jews, Sinti- and Roman and often Slavic people like Poles, Ukrainians, Belarussians or Russians -often Slavs killing, wounding and mutilating other slavs, like the mass murder of Poles by the Ukrainian Nationalist UPA movement during the Massacres of Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia. 60,000–120,000 Poles and about 340 Czechs were murdered by these Ukranian nationalists of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA) from 1943 until 1945.
Ukrainian Hilfswilliger (HiWi; Nazi collaborators) round up Jews
A good and notorious example is the far-right Hungarian ultranationalist party Arrow Cross Party led by Ferenc Szálasi, in Hungary. The Arrow Cross Party formed a government in Hungary they named the Government of National Unity. They were in power from 15 October 1944 to 28 March 1945. During its short rule, ten to fifteen thousand civilians were murdered outright, including many Jews and Romani, and 80,000 people were deported from Hungary to concentration camps in Austria. After the war, Szálasi and other Arrow Cross leaders were tried as war criminals by Hungarian courts. Jewish victims of Arrow Cross men in the court of the Dohány Street SynagogueIn Romania, Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, Ukraine, Belarus and Croatia local Romanians, Lithuanians, Estonians, Latvians, Ukraine, Belarussissians and Croatians caried out their own Pogroms, lynching and thus mass muder of the Jews next to or as part of the Holocaust.
The Second World War was a brutal world war in which many ethnicities, many peoples and many countries were involved. And many, many Europeans collaborated with the German and Austrian Nazis in their Holocaust, hunt for vulnerable minorities and the extermination of European Jewry. This painful truth must be said now and repeated in the future.
Because that is the ugly truth, the horrible truth.
Pieter
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Post by pieter on Jun 21, 2024 15:42:01 GMT -7
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Post by pieter on Jun 21, 2024 17:11:03 GMT -7
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