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Post by hollister on Dec 23, 2005 7:11:44 GMT -7
The article is from Radio Polonia
Poland's Primate lambasts Radio Maryja 22.12.2005
The Primate of Poland, archbishop Jozef Glemp, has said that said that the Catholic Radio Maryja is causing a rift in the Church. Its director, Father Tadeusz Rydzyk should limit his ambitions and subordinate himself to the Church, the Primate told the Catholic Information Agency. Commenting on a statement by Pope Benedict XVI, who called on the Catholic mass media to stay away from politics, archbishop Glemp charged Radio Maryja with promoting a specific type of religiousness, a selective approach to Church teachings and regarding itself as the only true church. The case of Father Rydzyk and Radio Maryja calls for a thorough debate in Poland’s Episcopate, the Primate said
Does anyone have anything to say about this? I had a very long and intense discussion about Father Rydzyk with the Polish SNR (Senior National Rep) over Thanksgiving dinner. He was and continues to be quite upset about Father Rydzyk's stance and actions.
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Post by Jaga on Dec 23, 2005 10:58:49 GMT -7
Holly,
sure. I would like to talk about it more but I was not sure how many of you are even familiar with Father Rydzyk. I even knew him personally when he was still in Krakow, but I am pretty sure he would not recognize me because I talked to him maybe 1-2 times. I had friends who were involved in the community which he led.
I talked to them (my friends ) recently, they all say that Rydzyk went too far
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Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Dec 23, 2005 15:01:23 GMT -7
I talked to them (my friends ) recently, they all say that Rydzyk went too far One can imagine how far he went if even Church authorities scold him. Radio Maryja listeners and followers are the most traditional and conservative bigots in Poland. They are officially called ultracatholics etc, and mostly consist of old ladies who can get very hysterical and even violent when Father Rydzyk is critisized or attacked. I think the biggest problem with Rydzyk is not that he abuses the religious dogmas or something. He is mostly critisized for his dubious financial operations. Old ladies pay large sums to the Radio Maryja, and Father Rydzyk only knows what happens with this money. He runs not only the Radio, but several businesses too. He is more a businessman than a priest. He tries to be a politician too. Not a frontman, though, but the one who prefers to pull strings from behind the curtain. Brothers kaczynski are supposed to have cooperated with Rydzyk in order to win the elections. Recently Rydzyk protested some ministerial nominations made by the new Kaczynski-led government.
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Post by Jaga on Dec 23, 2005 15:40:11 GMT -7
Jerzy,
this is nothing strange. American televangelists are doing exactly the same things, some were caught taking money from old women who were not able really to recognize what they were doing.
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forza
Cosmopolitan
Posts: 514
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Post by forza on Dec 23, 2005 22:39:10 GMT -7
Welcome. This is Radio Maryja - catholic voice in your home.
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Post by Jaga on Dec 26, 2005 10:09:28 GMT -7
Forza,
you always find something funny. I guess, during the communism we had no clue that there are so many different views and people who are not-communists would not agree on so many issues. In the past - different opposition groups were united by their opposition towards communistic government - not any more!
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Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Dec 27, 2005 3:00:34 GMT -7
I guess, during the communism we had no clue that there are so many different views and people who are not-communists would not agree on so many issues. In the past - different opposition groups were united by their opposition towards communistic government - not any more! Yes, it is natural that people unite when there is one powerful enemy who poses danger to everybody. When the enemy ceases to exist or weakens, the fight for power start inside the former entity and people start quarrelling, sometimes in a nasty way. That was what Walesa started doing in early 90s, when he decided to become a president and declared the so-called "war at the top," which was meant to break solidarity alliances in former opposition groups.
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Post by hollister on Dec 28, 2005 6:18:39 GMT -7
Thanks for the background and info.... This is all in line with what I heard. Interesting link to Walesa!
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Post by pieter on Dec 28, 2005 9:20:03 GMT -7
I talked to them (my friends ) recently, they all say that Rydzyk went too far One can imagine how far he went if even Church authorities scold him. Radio Maryja listeners and followers are the most traditional and conservative bigots in Poland. They are officially called ultracatholics etc, and mostly consist of old ladies who can get very hysterical and even violent when Father Rydzyk is critisized or attacked. I think the biggest problem with Rydzyk is not that he abuses the religious dogmas or something. He is mostly critisized for his dubious financial operations. Old ladies pay large sums to the Radio Maryja, and Father Rydzyk only knows what happens with this money. He runs not only the Radio, but several businesses too. He is more a businessman than a priest. He tries to be a politician too. Not a frontman, though, but the one who prefers to pull strings from behind the curtain. Brothers kaczynski are supposed to have cooperated with Rydzyk in order to win the elections. Recently Rydzyk protested some ministerial nominations made by the new Kaczynski-led government. Hollister, Jaga, Pawian and Forza, In my Duch newspaper NRC Handelsblad Radio-Maryja is decribed during the years as a far right, Ultra-Conservative Radiostation that sends out a fundamentalist Catholic message from the North Polish town Roruñ. Criticasters of the of the extreme-right xenophobe Father redemptorist Tadeusz Rydzyk said that he poisonened the ether with Nationalist and anti-semitic lectures. I think that I like bishop Tadeusz Pieronek of the progressive wing in the Polish Catholic chruch better. Radio-Maryja in my option is to much linked with LPR (Leage of Polish Families), a far right and anti-European party. Radio-Maryja is Populist and a church in a church, and in that way a threat to Polands image outside Poland, and a threat to the unity in the Polish church. Especially in Poland whith it's totalitarian past (both from within and from the outside), elements as Radio-Maryja are very harmful for Poland itself and for and for it's image abroad. I compare this radiostation with Stowarzyszenie PAX Boles?aw Piasecki, who was also loyal to a government (not PiS, but PRPZ) Catholic and anti-semitic. Znak came after PAX and was a much better organisation, which was supported by the Catholic church.
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Post by pieter on Dec 28, 2005 11:24:12 GMT -7
NEW POLISH GOVERNMENT FLIRTS WITH RADIO-MARYJA
Who wants to know waht the new governmentpolicy is has to listen to Radio-Maryja. Radio-Maryja no doubt has the best Christmas in her exisitance. Where Radio-Maryja was a curiousity, which broadcasted a view from ancient times, to whom only a few old folks listened, is now in the middle of attention. The reason for that is the new prime-minister of Poland, Kazimierz Marcinkiewicz. He is a member of the moral-conservative and Catholic Right and Justice (PiS), who won the parlaimentary elections two months ago. One of his first deeds was a visit to Radio-Maryja, with two of his ministers. Something new in Poland. Never before spoke a Polish prime-minister to this Radio station. More visits and interviews followed. Suddenly the serious (quality) media had to listen to Radio-Maryja to catch up with what the new Government policy would be like. The teeny-weeny marketshare of this broadcasting -around the 2 percent- went up rapidly. Polish biggest newspaper, Gazeta Wyborcza, wrote: "Radio-Maryja is the real winner of the elections." The Polish Catholic Church always has had a ambivallent relation with Father Tadeusz Rydzyk, the controversial founder of the radio station. "Officially Radio-Maryja is never recognised as Catholic radio by the church", says priest Adam Boniecki, editor in chief of the Catholic weekly Tygodnik Powszechny. Nevertheless a part of the bisshops tolerates the radio station. But now the limit is reached evidently. Cardinal Jozef Glemp, not a liberal himself, expressed harsh criticizm on Rydzyk. " If Radio-Maryja wants to be Catholic and wants to transmit the Churches doctrine, than it has to promote unity", thus Glemp in a statement. Glemp finds that Tadeusz Rydzyk plays his own God, and that his followers are obedient to his sayings. "But on this moment we notice that she takes care for devidance inside the church." Also pope Benedict XVI stepped in with it. He called for the Polish Catholic media to respect "the autonomy of the political domain" and " the unity of the episcopate". What is the reason that the polish catholic government rubs itself against a man which is disapproved of by the Catholic church (in Poland and Rome)? Boniecki in his explanation points at the Polish media. " Those are very *critical towards this government and often ask mean questions. The government prefers to play a home match with Radio-Maryja." Rydzyk sound praises in his interviews with Cabinetmembers about the government. A heaven, amidst the Media-hel. Governmentparty PiS is very bussy to make this hell al lot more comfortable. Last week a majority of the Sejm voted in favor of a change of the Media law. The Polish progam-council (KRRIT), who deals with transmitting licenses and supervises the Media landscape, has from now on 5 members instaid of 9. Two are assigned by the President, two by the parlaiment and two by the senate. it is not coincidental that all these organs are controled by PiS. Today PiS-prominent Lech Kaczynski fall in as the new president of Poland, the senat is a PiS stronghold, and in parlaiment PiS made a occasional alliance with Populist parties, who already for a longer period were one of the family at Radio-Maryja. The amanment of the law is already called 'Coup d'etat' in the medialandscape. Because in practise it means that the new government gets nearly a total control over the Public televison-radio broadcast TVP. The Social-Democrats (SLD) who were often accused of Media-manipulation in the last four years, are lambs when you compare them to this, Gazeta Wyborcza said last week. This all is for Father Tadeusz Rydzyk good news. Next to Radio-Maryja he is the owner of the TV-chanal, Trwam ('I shal prevail'), a newspaper and his own school for journalism in Torun, Veritatis Splendor. The students of that symbolically gave Rydzyk a box, with a collection of newspaper cuttings with lies about the Media-imperium of their welldoer. The romance of the government with Radio-Maryja is a serious mistake thinks Boniecki. The religious feelings in Poland, which after the death of John Paul II became even stronger, are being misused and that can turn itself against the chruch. The present situation irritates the most real catholics enormously, says the editor in chief. "An Anti-clerical reaction is possible in my view. Poles are Catholic, but they don't like it when the church, or which authority watsoever, is interfering in their daily lives."
NRC Handelsblad, Friday december 23th 2005 An attempt to translate a Duch articel into English by Pieter Pluijgers, Wedensdaydecember 28th 2005. 19.00h
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Post by pieter on Dec 28, 2005 11:30:17 GMT -7
*PS- A critical press is very necassery in a parlaimentry democracy because people form their opinion in what they read, hear on the radio and see on television. Poland is a modern democracy now and so people form their opinion in discussions with compatriots, in what they find on the internet and maybe what they read from their quality journalists and independant intellectuals who write essays for newspapers and magazines.
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Post by pieter on Dec 28, 2005 12:07:39 GMT -7
I found this about the old PAX organisation. I did not realise before that this organisation had that much power in Communist Poland as collaborators. It proves that you can easily switch from one totalitarian ideology (Fascism -ONR-Falanga- to the Stalinist PRPZ) to another. In East Germany former nazi's (NSDAP-members) became Communists (SED-members) in the DDR. In the thirtees Communists became Nazi's. Ernst Röhm, SA chief said about them, good guys, red on the inside and brown on the outside. With Boles?awa Piaseckiego it was the other way around!
Stowarzyszenie PAX – organizacja utworzona w 1947 roku przez Boles?awa Piaseckiego i innych dzia?aczy przedwojennego ONR-Falanga. W 1945 r. Piasecki pertraktowa? z wysokim funkcjonariuszem NKWD, Iwanem Sierowem i uzyska? jego zgod? na funkcjonowanie na terytorium zaj?tym przez Armi? Czerwon?. Od 1945 grupa wydawa?a pismo "Dzi? i Jutro", a w 1947 zosta?a zarejestrowana jako Stowarzyszenie "Pax", która otrzyma?a szereg przywilejów od w?adzy komunistycznej jako organizacja "katolicka". Pax posiada? prawie monopolistyczne prawo na wydawanie wysokonak?adowej "katolickiej" prasy, z której najwa?niejsza by?o gazeta "S?owo Powszechne", a tak?e wydawnictw ksi??kowych (Instytut Wydawniczy "Pax"). W latach stalinowskich dzia?alno?? Paxu mia?a jawnie antyko?cielny charakter. Pax wspó?pracowa? z ruchem "ksi??y patriotów", wspiera? przymusowy zarz?d odebranej ko?cio?owi organizacji charytatywnej "Caritas", atakowa? Episkopat Polski za rzekome d??enie do przywrócenia kapitalizmu i odebrania Polsce ziem zachodnich, popiera? proces biskupa Kaczmarka i uwi?zienie prymasa Stefana Wyszy?skiego. W latach 1953-1956 "Pax" wydawa? fa?szywy "Tygodnik Powszechny" po tym jak redakcja odmówi?a zamieszczenia nekrologu Stalina. Z kolei publikacje Pax-u by?y wpisane na ko?cielny indeks ksi?g zakazanych. Po 1956 roku Pax przybra? bardziej kompromisowe stanowisko. Pozostaj?c cz??ci? systemu w?adzy (uczestniczy? we Froncie Jedno?ci Narodu, a nast?pnie w Patriotycznym Ruchu Odrodzenia Narodowego) i popieraj?c posuni?cia w?adz - w tym tak?e represje wobec robotników i opozycji demokratycznej, próbowa? jednocze?nie prezentowa? katolickie stanowisko, zw?aszcza w takich kwestiach jak nauka spo?eczna Ko?cio?a i kwestia przerywania ci??y. Ponadto Stowarzyszenie uzyska?o przywileje gospodarcze, m.in utworzy?a w?asn? spó?dzielni? mieszkaniow?. W III Rzeczpospolitej Stowarzyszenie "Pax" straci?o na znaczeniu, ale istnieje pod nazw? "Katolickie Stowarzyszenie Civitas Christiana".
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Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Dec 29, 2005 15:37:12 GMT -7
The present situation irritates the most real catholics enormously, says the editor in chief. "An Anti-clerical reaction is possible in my view. Poles are Catholic, but they don't like it when the church, or which authority watsoever, is interfering in their daily lives. Yes, it is true. Poles don`t like anybody who interfers in their daily lives. It applied to Soviets and communists in the past as well as priests nowadays. After the collapse of communism, the Polish Church was triumphant and wanted to collect the fruit of the victory. Priests started to meddle into politics and dictate people what to do. This was met with indignation, and many people were put off by some priests` behaviour. Today Church leaders and most priests are more wary. They abstain from openly supporting anybody except for God and Jesus. Father Rydzyk and few others are infamous exceptions.
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Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Dec 29, 2005 15:49:02 GMT -7
With Boles?awa Piaseckiego it was the other way around! Piasecki, as a former fascist activist, was to be executed by NKWD in 1945. He saved his life by proposing general Ivan Sierov help to infiltrate, then break the Polish Church. He was released and allowed to work. He built an organization which had influence and money. It closely cooperated with the alternative Church , i.e. "patriot" priests who were on the side of communists.
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Post by bescheid on Dec 29, 2005 17:41:59 GMT -7
Piwo
That was a good story, and a good lesson on active survival tactics. Assess, adapt, and if with some resources, bribe.
You know, that was very good of the Polish to expose them selves to help those intelligence officers in escaping...It was matters of the heart above all, this for sure!!!
I have always considered the fear of all fears, is that fear of being caught, the one unemaginable fear.
Charles
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