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Post by hollister on Dec 21, 2007 16:19:12 GMT -7
So let me make sure I have this correct....
I should not have posted this because it is a personal viewpoint of an individual. a) There is another side. b) The inference that the author of the article does not have a brain and only wants to sell books. Thus if you have written a book, (and by extension hope for sales of those books) you and your views are not proper discussion topics?
I posted the original topic in hopes of getting some intelligent debate going. I say the following in all kindness - Too often Mike, you posts are stopping debate and discussion. For example, tell us why you think the author is wrong - give us specific examples - point us to alternative analysis. Rather than lecturing us that we are wrong/misguided and you know the truth. If you do know the truth, please share it with us.
If there is another side, what is it? The Iranians did approach Bush with this offer - look it up. How and why do you think the author does not have a brain? Is this your personal view point? If so, your first point comes into play. Personal view points are not allowed. As far as the book thing, that is just plain silly. Books are ideas and ideas are to be debated. When we stop debating ideas - that is when we are in trouble. I posted the original topic in hopes of getting some intelligent debate going.
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Post by bescheid on Dec 21, 2007 19:57:13 GMT -7
Bush Still Spinning Nukes in Iran mwcnews.net/content/view/18841/42/from the article "Bush "rewarded" Iran for its help in consolidating U.S. power in Afghanistan after the 9/11 attacks by inaugurating Iran into his “axis of evil” in January 2002. The following year, Iran offered the U.S. government a comprehensive plan for negotiations and cooperation, which addressed all of Bush's claimed pet peeves about Iran. In Iran's 2003 memorandum, sent to the U.S. government via Swiss diplomats, Iran proposed a "dialogue in mutual respect." It sought negotiations with the United States on the concerns Bush has repeatedly expressed. "This 2003 offer by Iran to negotiate these pressing issues with the United States was an incredible opportunity, which Bush, who claims to pursue diplomacy, should have seized. Yet the White House thumbed its nose at the Iranian offer and then tried to cover up the story." Iran proposed “full transparency” to show “there are no Iranian endeavors to develop or possess WMD.” It also sought to guarantee “decisive action against any terrorists (above all Al Qaida) on Iranian territory, full cooperation and exchange of all relevant information.” In Iraq, Iran proposed "coordination of Iranian influence for activity supporting political stabilization and the establishment of democratic institutions and a non-religious government." Iran agreed to discuss the “stop of any material support to Palestinian opposition groups (Hamas, Jihad etc.) from Iranian territory" and "pressure on these organizations to stop violent action against civilians within borders of 1967." And Iran listed its "acceptance of the Arab League Beirut declaration (Saudi initiative, two-states-approach)." This meant Iran would recognize the state of Israel." Marjorie Cohn, MWC News Magazine senior editor, is a professor at Thomas Jefferson School of Law, president of the National Lawyers Guild, and the US representative to the executive committee of the American Association of Jurists. Her new book, Cowboy Republic: Six Ways the Bush Gang Has Defied the Law is published by PoliPointPress. Other articles by this author :. Visit her web site at: www.marjoriecohn.com/ Holly Interesting information some what discredit of the credibility of the currant administration in power. Just some what curious of your thoughts in some regards with the exposed flank of Mr, Bush and his programms. There are some nasty winds of a light rumour of some dissension in and among the Intelligence community of Langely {Virginia} in as much to the level of authority below that of {Director of National Intelligence-Michael Mc Connel}. Beginning with the office of {Director of The Intelligence Staff-LTG Ronald Burgess}. www.delta-green.com/opint/imint/ii_ciahq.htmlwww.dni.gov/www.dni.gov/aboutODNI/bios/burgess_bio.htmThat possible the ranks of Intelligence Staff are in the early signs of going Rogue. For of several past instances of abuse of Intelligence reports becoming a foundation of circumventing of truth into personal political agenda by presidential advisement staff. And of intentual leakage of Intelligence contract staff to the news media in violation of confidentiality laws. Now of late, the information leakage of destructed interrogation tapes. {Those things are normally destructed once resolution as been satisfied}. It more or less as the taste of a severe conflict between the presidential office and the intelligence community that serves it. Charles
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Post by freetobe on Dec 21, 2007 23:01:54 GMT -7
Holly and Charles, Bravo to both of you for thoughtful, lucid commentary and informative references. Please indulge my one observation. Americans are aware that the current administration is going to continue on its path to diminish the nation no matter what its citizens want. The public's message has been loud and clear and falls on the deaf ears of both political parties. The Dems at least acknowledged the public's voice,but can't seem to effect a change. And we have all heard the numerous opinions about that failure. Maybe Americans are just turned off on government, are trying to get on with their lives and hope for the best(and change) with the 08 presidential election.
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Post by pieter on Dec 22, 2007 1:33:27 GMT -7
Jaga/Hollister a.o.,
I just started to read this thread and did not finish reading yet, I am at my parents place for christmas and so will have less time to participate in the Forum. I bough two books about Barack Obama, one from himself and another one from a Dutch journalist.
Pieter
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Post by valpomike on Dec 22, 2007 9:16:09 GMT -7
To all,
I just wanted to show that, this is just someone's view, and there are many views to each story. I don't want to upset anyone. Sometimes, I even have a view on a story, but no one wants to hear my view.
Michael Dabrowski
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Post by bescheid on Dec 22, 2007 9:53:40 GMT -7
To all, I just wanted to show that, this is just someone's view, and there are many views to each story. I don't want to upset anyone. Sometimes, I even have a view on a story, but no one wants to hear my view. Michael Dabrowski Michael What is your view? Could you perhaps elaborate for additional information? Charles
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Post by valpomike on Dec 22, 2007 13:11:28 GMT -7
Charles,
You don't want to hear anything that is other than what you think, and you and I both know that. Don't try and play games with me, I am the master at that. And I don't hide from anyone, and my name is in the phone book, for all to find.
Michael Dabrowski
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Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Dec 22, 2007 13:33:52 GMT -7
Holly and Charles, Bravo to both of you for thoughtful, lucid commentary and informative references. Please indulge my one observation. Americans are aware that the current administration is going to continue on its path to diminish the nation no matter what its citizens want. The public's message has been loud and clear and falls on the deaf ears of both political parties. The Dems at least acknowledged the public's voice,but can't seem to effect a change. And we have all heard the numerous opinions about that failure. Maybe Americans are just turned off on government, are trying to get on with their lives and hope for the best(and change) with the 08 presidential election. I` me nott on Americano afferrz expert. Butt me thinks thaet Mr Presidento Busho ist a grate Americano pantriot. He iz fiting in the East worlt for oijl. Oijl is verri importnat and it iz goin` shorrt. When Americanos pozzes oijl in Arabian Irak, Iran, thei wil been rich! The gratest cauntri in univerz! Why you Americanos not wont be gratest cauntri and peeples in the univesr? Me not compriehende thisz!
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Post by valpomike on Dec 22, 2007 13:46:58 GMT -7
Pawian,
What the hell is all that? I am not a school teacher, so, I guess, it is harder for me to understand.
Michael Dabrowski
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Post by bescheid on Dec 22, 2007 14:09:21 GMT -7
Charles, You don't want to hear anything that is other than what you think, and you and I both know that. Don't try and play games with me, I am the master at that. And I don't hide from anyone, and my name is in the phone book, for all to find. Michael Dabrowski Oh dear, what on earth brought this on, some more of bipolar? Michael, you need to speak more often to your wife Julie. Charles
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Post by Jaga on Dec 22, 2007 17:14:41 GMT -7
Jaga/Hollister a.o., I just started to read this thread and did not finish reading yet, I am at my parents place for christmas and so will have less time to participate in the Forum. I bough two books about Barack Obama, one from himself and another one from a Dutch journalist. Pieter Pieter, Merry Christmas to you and your family! I hope you would have a great time with your parents and you would be able to read the books about Obama
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Post by Jaga on Dec 22, 2007 17:38:31 GMT -7
Holly,
I also heard a similar story that Iran and the US had close colaborations in Afghanistan. Iran offered to help. This is unfortunate that the relationship between these two countries is so bad now. But I am releaved that the new CIA statement came up and the third war is not on the mind of majority of people now! This would be a real catastrophy for the US in many aspects (economy, respect etc).
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Post by valpomike on Dec 22, 2007 21:37:11 GMT -7
Charles,
My wife's name is not Julie. Again, your facts are incorrect. If you want to know her name, just ask, don't act like some kind of Private Investigator. You are a real piece of work. Again, the German thinks he is smarter than the Polish-American.
Michael Dabrowski
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Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Dec 23, 2007 6:37:39 GMT -7
Holly and Charles, Bravo to both of you for thoughtful, lucid commentary and informative references. Please indulge my one observation. Americans are aware that the current administration is going to continue on its path to diminish the nation no matter what its citizens want. The public's message has been loud and clear and falls on the deaf ears of both political parties. The Dems at least acknowledged the public's voice,but can't seem to effect a change. And we have all heard the numerous opinions about that failure. Maybe Americans are just turned off on government, are trying to get on with their lives and hope for the best(and change) with the 08 presidential election. I` me nott on Americano afferrz expert. Butt me thinks thaet Mr Presidento Busho ist a grate Americano pantriot. He iz fiting in the East worlt for oijl. Oijl is verri importnat and it iz goin` shorrt. When Americanos pozzes oijl in Arabian Irak, Iran, thei wil been rich! The gratest cauntri in univerz! Why you Americanos not wont be gratest cauntri and peeples in the univesr? Me not compriehende thisz! Pawian, What the hell is all that? I am not a school teacher, so, I guess, it is harder for me to understand. Michael Dabrowski Ooops, I am sorry, it is my brother, again he returned early from the grazing field with the cows and he took advantage of the vacant computer. He always writes some stupidities. He is fascinated with George W. Bush, that`s all. He always praises him. Don`t worry, he is a bit weak in the mind. Don`t take him seriously. His main interest is cows and other stuff on the farm.
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Post by Jaga on Dec 23, 2007 9:50:01 GMT -7
Pawian,
frankly, I was impressed with "your brother" analysis. In spite of modifying each word, it was easy to figure out what did you mean originally.
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