scatts
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Post by scatts on Oct 9, 2006 22:57:53 GMT -7
Yesterday, I visited an office project we have just finished, which is housed in the "Metropolitan" building that faces onto Plac Pilsudski, historically Plac Saski. From the window we had a view directly over the start of a fascinating project to rebuild the Saski palace. I was amazed to see the foundations of the old palace being unearthed and when I got home did a little digging of my own to find out more. To my amazement I find pictures of the "Nevsky Cathedral" that used to stand on the square and it starts to become a very interesting story. It is quite amazing to see history coming to life in this way. Anyway, I have put a few pictures here www.pbase.com/scatts/inbox in case anyone is interested. We visited the Warsaw Uprising museum at the weekend. By far the best museum in town. Some snaps here www.pbase.com/scatts/uprising
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bujno
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Post by bujno on Oct 10, 2006 0:17:53 GMT -7
Scatts, you are doing a great job. Nevski Sobor was the PKiN (Palac Kultury i Nauki) of the19th century, a 'gift' from Russia. PKiN disrupts the very centre of the town, Nevski Sobór disrupted the architectural marvel called Oœ Saska (Saska Axle). There's another marvel of that kind in Warsaw - Wodna Oœ Saska - if you stand on the terrace of the Zamek Ujazdowski and look eastwards, you'll see it. Perhaps you'll find more inspiration for your great job on this following site with lots of pictures of Warszawa, the way it used to be: www.stalus.iq.pl/Another point of Warsaw - that you'll (or you have already found as interesting especially for you is the Filtry. Planned, and constrcuted by an oustanding Anglik, too. His name was William Lindley, a famous engineer, who planned sewage systems throughout the European cities in 19 century. His work was especiallu succesful in Warsaw, and both the Filtry and sewage system is still operating. And served well also during Powstanie Warszawskie, as you already know after the visit in certainly the best museum in town
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scatts
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Post by scatts on Oct 10, 2006 8:19:45 GMT -7
bujno, thanks for the link, that's an interesting site. We must have similar thoughts about Warsaw architecture because filtry is something that interests me although I have not yet been able to make the tour to look around. I will do though.
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piwo
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Post by piwo on Oct 10, 2006 13:43:14 GMT -7
Good stuff guys.. I'm loving the links!
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Post by rdywenur on Oct 10, 2006 15:51:14 GMT -7
Greeat link Bujno.
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Post by hollister on Oct 10, 2006 16:59:05 GMT -7
Okay I am probably going to get lambasted .... but I have conflicted feelings about the restoration of Plac Saki.
I am very glad that I saw the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier when I did - there is something very moving about the location in the surviving colonnade of the palace and the history that surrounds it - that gives the place a certain gravitas and emotion that I fear will be lost with the restoration.
I speak as a wife of a soldier - who get very emotional at the thought of all the wives, mothers, fathers and families who suffered the loss of their loved ones in war - and I pray that I never have to walk that path.
Don't even talk to me about Katyn ....
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scatts
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Post by scatts on Oct 11, 2006 12:33:55 GMT -7
Not by me, Holly! I don't agree with you though, that it will lose something. I think something like that has such emotional and historical gravitas that it can transcend anything built around it. I think the reconstruction should go ahead, the square is a very 'empty' place. When they have finished they will reconstuct the Bruhl Palace, slightly more controversial perhaps given the history but architecturally a good idea. Hopefully they will then demolish the pig ugly Victoria hotel and build something worth looking at.
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scatts
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Post by scatts on Oct 11, 2006 12:37:34 GMT -7
This penchant the Soviets had for "architectural terrorism" is really quite weird. I mean, they were no strangers to terrorism by just about every other means but they do seem to have some kind of fetish for building things people didn't need in places they didn't want them. The only thing they were genuinely good at and are still of great benefit are their metro systems. Pity Warsaw didn't get one.
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piwo
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Post by piwo on Oct 11, 2006 18:39:13 GMT -7
Taken last summer there.
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Post by bescheid on Oct 11, 2006 19:11:17 GMT -7
piwo
Those of very magnificent photographs! Very striking...I see they still use the Russian built SKS for ceremonial service.
Charles
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piwo
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Post by piwo on Oct 11, 2006 19:36:58 GMT -7
Charles, I am not well versed on Soviet post WWll weapons. Is there something that identifies it as Russian built? I know the Poles, among many other former "satellites" built variants of the SKS, but I wouldn't know how to tell. I know the Russian Three Line Rifle variant commonly called the Mosin Nagant M44 was produced in Poland beginning in 1951 with equipment purchased from Russia. Their quality is considered by most collectors as the best of all the producers of this variant, including the Russians: these rifles produced at Radom are second to none in quality. I know the Poles retrofitted other "captured" rifles throughout history, and most have high collectability because of their quality as well.
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Post by gardenmoma on Oct 11, 2006 21:39:29 GMT -7
Yesterday, I visited an office project we have just finished, which is housed in the "Metropolitan" building that faces onto Plac Pilsudski, historically Plac Saski. From the window we had a view directly over the start of a fascinating project to rebuild the Saski palace. I was amazed to see the foundations of the old palace being unearthed and when I got home did a little digging of my own to find out more. To my amazement I find pictures of the "Nevsky Cathedral" that used to stand on the square and it starts to become a very interesting story. It is quite amazing to see history coming to life in this way. Anyway, I have put a few pictures here www.pbase.com/scatts/inbox in case anyone is interested. Thank you very much for sharing all the pictures and the detailed work you put into documenting the history of Plac Saski Now, I can better understand what was there previously and what has happened there. piwo - John, I think the two pictures you posted are magnificent! You say "last summer" - did you mean 2005 or 2006? Has the Tomb of the Unknown been closed since the work has begun? Will the Tomb be permanently closed / moved some place else? GM
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Post by hollister on Oct 12, 2006 4:14:04 GMT -7
This is a photo I took last summer 2005 of the Tomb of the Unknown soldier - in combo with Scatts's excellent photos of the excavations I think you can get an idea of the scale of the work being done at the site. As I understand the project the lower level of the restored Plac will become the Military Museum and upper levels office space. The fountain which is now dismantled - Honor guard marching across the square - where JPII said mass here a couple of times and also where the fire hoses were turned on the crowd - It is also the place where Mass was said for JPII when he died. I agree that the hotel Victoria is pig-ugly! (although I have seen several cute piglets in my time!) I find it interesting and moving that the big copper urns standing to the side of the honor guards (you can see one in Piwo's first picture) hold soil from all the battle fields where Polish soldiers have died. And you are right Scatts considering all the other museums and memorials around town - I am sure that when completed the gravitas of the site will not be lost... as I am sure someone thought when reading my earlier commets... there Holly goes again being romantic about Poland again...
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Post by bescheid on Oct 12, 2006 6:23:21 GMT -7
Charles, I am not well versed on Soviet post WWll weapons. Is there something that identifies it as Russian built? I know the Poles, among many other former "satellites" built variants of the SKS, but I wouldn't know how to tell. I know the Russian Three Line Rifle variant commonly called the Mosin Nagant M44 was produced in Poland beginning in 1951 with equipment purchased from Russia. Their quality is considered by most collectors as the best of all the producers of this variant, including the Russians: these rifles produced at Radom are second to none in quality. I know the Poles retrofitted other "captured" rifles throughout history, and most have high collectability because of their quality as well. piwo Perhaps I should not have even brought that up as it confuses the prime reasons of presenting your fine photos for the pleasure of others, sorry. Yes, in the mid 50s, the Soviets introduced the SKS {Semonov} and at same time, the AK series of infantry weapons to Poland. The SKS was to be produced at the Radom Werk {Lucznik} and the factory was in the preliminary phase for manufacturing. It was refused by polish authorities for as the AK {47} family of weapons was far Superior. And as such, the choice was made for manufacture of that line entirely for home use. The SKS left in inventory was regulated for ceremonial use and training purposes. You are absolutely correct of the high quality of Polish Radom weapons and they are first choice of many users. Even in the war years, Radom weapons were highly sought after for use by German armed forces. For the quality was and is still, very very high. As a by and by, a development of a new typen of weapon operating system was in a very early stage of development at the war time Radom werk that was transfered to Germany. This was further developed into a weapons working system and used for the MG 42 series and later by Heckler&Koch. Another story another time. Some years back, I was exposed to training use of the Russian SKS and Makorov pistol. Both were very well designed for rugged use and equally reliable. The SKS was very accurate out to 200 meters and consistent. Rugged built but, light in weight and easy on the users. Easily maintained and fires the 7.62x39 cartridge. The Makorov was a truck as pistols go. Scratchy trigger, heavy {for me} recoil {fires the Russian 9MM short} and saved me from serious injury on one situation as a short fire left a bullet lodged in the barrel with out my knowledge, as I fired a second round believing that I had missed, causing the lodged bullet to exit out with the second round. Post examination disclosed damage to be confined to a slightly bulged barrel. No other damage was done, the weapon was then returned to service until later barrel replacement was available. The Polish arms industry is a very viable industry at present with production of a very large variety of high quality weapons in both inventory and export. I am not sure of the common knowledge, but, Poland has been in the arms export business for a good many years. Charles
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piwo
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Post by piwo on Oct 12, 2006 6:32:43 GMT -7
Yesterday, I visited an office project we have just finished, which is housed in the "Metropolitan" building that faces onto Plac Pilsudski, historically Plac Saski. From the window we had a view directly over the start of a fascinating project to rebuild the Saski palace. I was amazed to see the foundations of the old palace being unearthed and when I got home did a little digging of my own to find out more. To my amazement I find pictures of the "Nevsky Cathedral" that used to stand on the square and it starts to become a very interesting story. It is quite amazing to see history coming to life in this way. Anyway, I have put a few pictures here www.pbase.com/scatts/inbox in case anyone is interested. piwo - John, I think the two pictures you posted are magnificent! You say "last summer" - did you mean 2005 or 2006? GM My pictures were taken July 20, 2005. We were staying with a friend within a few blocks of the "rising statue" and square. When I found out that where we were was within the "Jewish section" that the Germans sealed off, I made my daughter who went with me watch "The Pianist", so she would have a historical feel for the area she was to stay. It had the desired effect. I also had taken a small movie of the "changing of the guard", but the file got corrupted and won't play.
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