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Post by leslie on Oct 14, 2007 9:53:05 GMT -7
Pawi This is a quote from 'Polskie Radio in English' and is another event in the topic we discussed recently! Bishops: voting an obligation
14.10.2007 One week before the early polls in Poland, Polish bishops have written a letter to the faithful reminding them of the obligation to vote in keeping with the fundamental values that the Church teaches. Over 90% of Polish people declare to be Catholic.
Leslie
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george
Cosmopolitan
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Post by george on Oct 14, 2007 10:39:49 GMT -7
Leslie....Not sure if the Poles pay attention to their Bishops when it comes to government elections. With that being said i wish the Poles would take their cue from Americans when this kind of subject comes up. By that i'm saying that it is so much healthy for the church and the government IF, the two are seperated. In America this was learnewd the hard way.
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Post by leslie on Oct 14, 2007 10:53:20 GMT -7
George Well said! But there is so much under the surface here - the views, feelings, wishes, desires etc of the INDIVIDUAL are supreme and this must be accepted by those who try (and apparently in many cases succeed) to transfer their will to the individual. England is looked upon as more of a secular state, but because so many new types of churches have arisen in these last few years, religious attitudes are coming more to the fore - without any coercion. This is how life should be. OK we have to obey laws but in a country-song that is played frequently (can't remember its name or the singer!) one line is something like ' The law is made for the good of the people' - and that's how laws should be. Leslie
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Pawian
European
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Post by Pawian on Oct 14, 2007 12:20:14 GMT -7
Pawi This is a quote from 'Polskie Radio in English' and is another event in the topic we discussed recently! Bishops: voting an obligation
14.10.2007 One week before the early polls in Poland, Polish bishops have written a letter to the faithful reminding them of the obligation to vote in keeping with the fundamental values that the Church teaches. Over 90% of Polish people declare to be Catholic.
Leslie I see nothing wrong with it. As long as Polish bishops don`t blatantly point to a particular party which should receive Poles` votes, it is greatly OK with me. Why? Isn`t it natural that Bishops want to keep Poland catholic? It is. So, let Catholics vote for parties which declare christian values. It is the same kind of dealing with believers as in case of other Church`s preachings: don`t drink alcohol; be good to others; show mercy; ect etc etc. The slogan to vote christian is perfectly fine. Well?
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Pawian
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Post by Pawian on Oct 14, 2007 12:28:45 GMT -7
George Well said! But there is so much under the surface here - the views, feelings, wishes, desires etc of the INDIVIDUAL are supreme and this must be accepted by those who try (and apparently in many cases succeed) to transfer their will to the individual. England is looked upon as more of a secular state, but because so many new types of churches have arisen in these last few years, religious attitudes are coming more to the fore - without any coercion. This is how life should be. OK we have to obey laws but in a country-song that is played frequently (can't remember its name or the singer!) one line is something like ' The law is made for the good of the people' - and that's how laws should be. Leslie Les, you constantly remind us about the way that religious life is organized in Great Britian. You know how religious life is organized in Poland. You seem to have a big problem with accepting it. You seem prejudiced a lot. It is enough that a thread simply mentions some religious contexts and you immediately start complaining how bad the situation is in Poland and praising the British model, with a hidden or open suggestion that it is the way things should be done in Poland. Why are you so intent on changing Poland and Poles? And your attempts smell of coersion, although you denounce it in your posts. hahahahahahaahahahaha
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Pawian
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Post by Pawian on Oct 14, 2007 12:30:35 GMT -7
Leslie....Not sure if the Poles pay attention to their Bishops when it comes to government elections. With that being said i wish the Poles would take their cue from Americans when this kind of subject comes up. By that i'm saying that it is so much healthy for the church and the government IF, the two are seperated. In America this was learnewd the hard way. The most ardently catholic party, LPR, League of Polish Families, won`t enter the new Seym. About 3% people are going to vote for them, much below the minimum of 5%.
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Post by leslie on Oct 14, 2007 16:12:59 GMT -7
Pawi One of these days I'll tell you why I have these personal feelings which are certainly not against Poland and the Poles. Two aspects are existing - one I have expressed several times that people should be left alone to make up their own minds unless they ask for help/advice. The other will have to wait. Leslie
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Pawian
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Post by Pawian on Oct 28, 2007 12:14:53 GMT -7
Pawi This is a quote from 'Polskie Radio in English' and is another event in the topic we discussed recently! Bishops: voting an obligation
14.10.2007 One week before the early polls in Poland, Polish bishops have written a letter to the faithful reminding them of the obligation to vote in keeping with the fundamental values that the Church teaches. Over 90% of Polish people declare to be Catholic.
Leslie I almost forgot. Last Sunday, the elections day, at the end of the mass service the priest read the official message of the Polish Church to believers. The Bishops announced that taking part in elections isn`t only a privilige but also a civic duty. All believers were told to go and vote according to their conscience. As you can see, there was not any mention about voting for christian parties. That was the right thing to do, what they did.
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Post by leslie on Oct 28, 2007 12:37:27 GMT -7
Pawi If I had been in the congregation you mention, I would have been insulted and disturbed by being told to go and vote (I won't say what I would have seen as implied) by a non-secular person about a purely secular event. Leslie
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Post by bescheid on Oct 28, 2007 13:17:37 GMT -7
Pawi This is a quote from 'Polskie Radio in English' and is another event in the topic we discussed recently! Bishops: voting an obligation
14.10.2007 One week before the early polls in Poland, Polish bishops have written a letter to the faithful reminding them of the obligation to vote in keeping with the fundamental values that the Church teaches. Over 90% of Polish people declare to be Catholic.
Leslie I almost forgot. Last Sunday, the elections day, at the end of the mass service the priest read the official message of the Polish Church to believers. The Bishops announced that taking part in elections isn`t only a privilige but also a civic duty. All believers were told to go and vote according to their conscience. As you can see, there was not any mention about voting for christian parties. That was the right thing to do, what they did. Pawian I do agree with you, the priest was correct in the reminding of the congregation to vote in good conscience as a privilege and civic duty. He was demonstrating honest leadership to the people he serves. For some, those few that are on the boarder line of indecision, this may have been the little push that was needed to convert into action. I am diffidently not Catholic, but, not that I do not recognize the Church is of only religious teaching. But, encompasses that of many much more in that of living. Morality, the family, matters of the conscience, interpretation of the mores and requirements demanded by society. The care of the poor and indigent. All things that are more best attended to by the church then that of government. Do you have a church tax? I was curious as to the support of the various church in your country. As of how they are supported, if only by the congregations in attendance or, a tax collected through deductions of payroll by government, then released to the indicated church as declared by the beholder of the payroll? Charles
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Pawian
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Post by Pawian on Oct 28, 2007 14:11:39 GMT -7
Pawi If I had been in the congregation you mention, I would have been insulted and disturbed by being told to go and vote (I won't say what I would have seen as implied) by a non-secular person about a purely secular event. Leslie Then we feel and believe in different things hahahahaha But I still respect you and your different opinion!
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Pawian
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Post by Pawian on Oct 28, 2007 14:21:11 GMT -7
I do agree with you, the priest was correct in the reminding of the congregation to vote in good conscience as a privilege and civic duty. He was demonstrating honest leadership to the people he serves. For some, those few that are on the boarder line of indecision, this may have been the little push that was needed to convert into action. I am diffidently not Catholic, but, not that I do not recognize the Church is of only religious teaching. But, encompasses that of many much more in that of living. Morality, the family, matters of the conscience, interpretation of the mores and requirements demanded by society. The care of the poor and indigent. All things that are more best attended to by the church then that of government. Charles I couldn`t put it better than you did. Thank you, you saved my time, now Leslie may read more about the case of the Church which is not only a religious institution. There is no church tax. Believers donate some money during the mass and pay the priest for his other services, like weddings, christenings, ordered masses, Christmas carol home visits etc. Last year we gave our priest 150 zł (then - 50$) for christening and about 50 zł for a Christmas visit.
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