george
Cosmopolitan
Posts: 568
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Post by george on Apr 27, 2008 17:03:10 GMT -7
I recently had a work trip to Ohio where i decided to go to Mass on a gloomy Sunday morning. Lo and Behold, the Mass was in Latin! I'm no stranger to the Latin Mass as heard as a altar boy 45 years ago. It brought back a flood of memories of a mass in which most people either slept through or fiddled in one way or another. I can't understand for the life of me what attracts Catholics to this Mass. The preist turns his back to the congregation and nobody understands what the hell he's speaking about. Can someone explain? Any opinions?
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Post by jimpres on Apr 28, 2008 6:22:48 GMT -7
George,
I am surprised that you found a Latin mass. It was traditional for many years. If you had a prayer book in Eng/Latin you could follow along. Some people just like the old way of doing things. When he turns his back follow in the book. I'm not found of the hand holding and raising in some churches now. English or Polish is fine. Full bands are not to my liking either.
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Post by kaima on Apr 28, 2008 7:06:09 GMT -7
Let's face it, most of us stick with the faith we are raised with rather than arriving at it by any bout of logic. Hmmmm.... perhaps that is in part the meaning of faith. So being raised with ceremony and a dead, foreign language as Latin is - was - so easily acceptable. Then most Roman Catholics accepted the Vatican II changes in ceremony and moved on.
The big advantage I saw being raised RC was learning a smattering of Latin while trying to understand what was going on and being said during the ceremonies and prayers. This provided a better foundation for understanding English as well as other languages I have encountered since.
Now the Muslims insist Arabic is the only true language in which to understand the Koran, so they are following a somewhat similar path as the Roman church. On the other extreme most prominent in America today are the Evangelicals going around and insisting that Everyman understands the One True Religion by studying the bible as an individual. Of course, then the interpretation must comply with what the Preacher says to be True True and not False True. So that limits the perfect understanding to The Word as it comes through about 5 different translations into the English. It is interesting that they have the concept that the 10,000 different English translations of the bible all lead to the True Understanding.
Somehow my RC background comes through in having more faith in an ancient, dead (unchanging) language carrying the true meaning than in a changeable modern language doing the same. I think they also miss out on relying solely on The Word and bypassing all of the ceremony and tradition carried by the Roman and Orthodox traditions.
In the end I decided to concentrate on living my life and will worry about finding out the Truth when I die.
Kai
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Post by rdywenur on Apr 28, 2008 9:27:26 GMT -7
George maybe the reason is because the Latin language is making a comeback. I can't believe for the life of me any other reason to have Latin mass cause as you stated, no one knew what the priest was saying so we were not participating and it was boring and put you to sleep. Sort of a pennance.
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Post by Atlantis5 on Apr 28, 2008 11:47:13 GMT -7
Let's face it, most of us stick with the faith we are raised with rather than arriving at it by any bout of logic. Hmmmm.... perhaps that is in part the meaning of faith. So being raised with ceremony and a dead, foreign language as Latin is - was - so easily acceptable. Then most Roman Catholics accepted the Vatican II changes in ceremony and moved on. The big advantage I saw being raised RC was learning a smattering of Latin while trying to understand what was going on and being said during the ceremonies and prayers. This provided a better foundation for understanding English as well as other languages I have encountered since. Now the Muslims insist Arabic is the only true language in which to understand the Koran, so they are following a somewhat similar path as the Roman church. On the other extreme most prominent in America today are the Evangelicals going around and insisting that Everyman understands the One True Religion by studying the bible as an individual. Of course, then the interpretation must comply with what the Preacher says to be True True and not False True. So that limits the perfect understanding to The Word as it comes through about 5 different translations into the English. It is interesting that they have the concept that the 10,000 different English translations of the bible all lead to the True Understanding. Somehow my RC background comes through in having more faith in an ancient, dead (unchanging) language carrying the true meaning than in a changeable modern language doing the same. I think they also miss out on relying solely on The Word and bypassing all of the ceremony and tradition carried by the Roman and Orthodox traditions. In the end I decided to concentrate on living my life and will worry about finding out the Truth when I die. Kai Haa, kai For you are so practical in the matters of religion {a very explosive subject}. But, you have embarked upon a very logical concept of that we must not ever Deny. For in the end, we each will find our truth. For in the process of death, there is no return...for in the process of loss, life becomes very precious. For each person once facing death, will become very religious, for this is a guarantee, for the face of death is not pleasant nor is the pain. For one, the living body will not give up the life easily. But then, who am I? Or what have I to say? The Roman Catholic is what? But of course,the Church of Rome.. Yes, our enemies of our North German Plain. For so many years past, we fought those B---ts to the south of our country for this is of today, Bavaria, why yes of course, Bavaria. But then for we of the North were so vile to this Catholic priest of their cursed roman Church? Well, it was not for their kindness,this for sure!!! For they were to emplace, of their pageant gods, to keep the peace of the conquered lands, they instilled with their Gods, to emplace with Christian gods {for them it was only a small implication}and of so, we must now to this day, be content with their loused stinking imposition of their Catholic faith to endure as a church.. Soo, my self as a loused German ex-fischerman of our long past fleet, yesss, I am loused... Ok, so I am loused as a lousy fisch sh--t German. One or more of your people, should stand upon one of any of our Fisch fleet in instance of heavy weather of deck, when of any one of so many storm swells will lift your ass up with the response you must grasp what is available to keep your sweaty body from striking a deck rail, then ok. For now you are ready to meet God!! Then you will be prepared to tell me, are you Catholic? Or are you a child of God? It is all to you to say as so? for when the time becomes the time you will die, for who or where, will you ask for as God? Charles
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Post by kaima on Apr 28, 2008 13:54:49 GMT -7
Charles,
I don't make any declarations of faith one way or another, so in that regard I am directly opposite the Evangelicals who spend their lives declaring things. There are so many 'one and only' faiths out there that I cannot accept the idea of an all-powerful God that limits himself to any one of these narrow human schemes. Particularly galling I find the widespread idea of killing everyone who doesn't believe as you do, be it other christian, Moslem or animist pagan. Overall I rate the chest thumping 'Christians' who run America as a bunch of Pharasees who should be tossed out of the temple for their greed, pride and materialism. I see nothing Christian in their practices (as opposed to their fine, narrow pontifications).
Kai
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george
Cosmopolitan
Posts: 568
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Post by george on Apr 28, 2008 14:53:08 GMT -7
Pope Benidect has paved the way towards the Latin Mass to be used where before one needed permission from their Bishop. I evidently tripped upon a priest who wants to bring it back. I of course have a few beefs with using Latin and not understanding it is certainly one of them. I also think that somehow traditionalists believe that somehow bring back the Latin Mass will bring back " The old days where most Catholics went to Mass" and things will be fine again. I think they are only fooling their selfs. In conclusion, i find it very ironic that one of our posters would complain about the Church imposing ( or trying ) impose their way of thinking. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Especially when you consider what country this poster comes from. Yes they tried to impose their " stinking imposition" many many centuries ago. As has the German nation a mere sixty five years ago. Of course they had the benefit of centuries of education and culture. Didn't work i guess. To quote the good book ( or something similar to what Christ once stated. People who live in glass houses should not throw stones.
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Post by Atlantis5 on Apr 28, 2008 18:56:42 GMT -7
Charles, I don't make any declarations of faith one way or another, so in that regard I am directly opposite the Evangelicals who spend their lives declaring things. There are so many 'one and only' faiths out there that I cannot accept the idea of an all-powerful God that limits himself to any one of these narrow human schemes. Particularly galling I find the widespread idea of killing everyone who doesn't believe as you do, be it other christian, Moslem or animist pagan. Overall I rate the chest thumping 'Christians' who run America as a bunch of Pharasees who should be tossed out of the temple for their greed, pride and materialism. I see nothing Christian in their practices (as opposed to their fine, narrow pontifications). Kai Actually you do make a very good point and how well I do agree with you. I think perhaps it is not just one church over the many, for who will say one is more important then the other, for they are the house of God of many names. For who may say not, that there are many more doors into Gods house then just the one. The other, we must obey Gods Law with attention to his ten commandments. It is all so simple, for why of some to make complicated, such a simple task. As of a last I would risk to say before my courage will give out. It should be of note: The Hebrews, The Christians, the Moslems {Islamic}, we have the same God our Lord in Heaven. For the Moslems still honour the tomb of Abraham, the father of their Arab people. It is so fasinating of our history as people, and recorded for us as Bible written. {Whilst in study of the Middle East, often I was to refer to the bible maps for references for they were accurate of the time} Karl
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