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Post by tuftabis on Jun 3, 2008 12:38:25 GMT -7
Doomed. I already see it going down the toilet rapidly I might add. Rdywenur, you are the citizen of a country some call the most succesful sociological experiment ever done by the human beings. I tend to agree with this way of seeing your homeland. Although I see some downs accumulating over your homeland I am just a Pole, I can't stop naively liking the USA. Please, always remember how quickly you have changed after the Pearl Harbor. Today it's nothing compared. Long live America, the last hope of, ehem, Western Civilization?
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Post by hollister on Jun 3, 2008 22:23:54 GMT -7
Please, always remember how quickly you have changed after the Pearl Harbor. Today it's nothing compared. Long live America, the last hope of, ehem, Western Civilization? And why didn't we (the US of A) do the same after 9/11? At that point we had the world and the moral imperative to do so - but we scooched to pooch so to say and allowed the Administration to run the country into the ground by thinking we could take action on the cheap - and not mobilizing the ENTIRE country behind the effort. As much as I hate to say it - on 9/12 the draft should have been re-instated and all the same war time stance as we had during WWII should have been put into place (price controls etc...) but we went to war - based on false intelligence and assumptions and the worst thing was that the ones bearing the cost of the actual war were isolated from the rest of society. After all they were volunteers we were told - they chose to be there. Somehow supporting the troops became blind allegiance to the Admin's policies and not actual support for ending the conflict so the troops could come home feeling they had accomplished their mission (which has NEVER been fully articulated to them) and with the thanks of a grateful nation. I am ashamed and horrified by my countries actions and the rhetoric I have heard during the past six years. Now back to the original topic .... How does the discussion and resistance to the proposed road through the Mazury lake region fit into the gas pipeline discussion? If Poland had a good north south expressway would that change the terms of the discussion? The Soviets intentionally keep the transportation infrastructure in Poland underdeveloped to limit people moving around and thus restricting goods from delivery. So for Russia to claim that the pipeline is a necessity because there is no existing alternatives - is blaming the Baltic countries for a problem they created!
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Post by tuftabis on Jun 4, 2008 5:32:55 GMT -7
How does the discussion and resistance to the proposed road through the Mazury lake region fit into the gas pipeline discussion? If Poland had a good north south expressway would that change the terms of the discussion? The Soviets intentionally keep the transportation infrastructure in Poland underdeveloped to limit people moving around and thus restricting goods from delivery. So for Russia to claim that the pipeline is a necessity because there is no existing alternatives - is blaming the Baltic countries for a problem they created! Ecology and to certain degree even economy is not important compared to political will and potential to execute it. Anddecision to build underwater pipeline is sticktly political.There're means to build ecologically safe and economically profitable pipeline from Russia to Germany on land through the territory of EU members. The topic is very hot in EU beacuse of this political background. To the degree of questioning German loyalty in the states politicially the most vulnarable in the region. Ecology is also a problem and it is used as a tool in objecting the pipeline by the countries which are more experienced in EU - the Scandinavians. On the other side Germany has an ally for the pipeline in the EU too. This is Holland whose gas company Dutch Gasunie participates in the project. We laugh in Poland that when we wanted to build a 150 meters highway fly-over in Rospuda valley we had flocks of Dutch ecologists here in Poland defending the flocking birds. Now, when the whole indland Baltic Sea ecology system is endagered, there's not a single Flying Dutchman to protest. I tell you, life in EU is funny and never boring!
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Post by tuftabis on Jun 4, 2008 5:47:39 GMT -7
More on the ecology stuff from Polskie Radio report:
No Russian gas under the Baltic? 29.05.2008
Opponents of routing part of the envisaged Northern gas pipeline along the Baltic Sea bed have emerged victorious from a test of arguments in the Petitions Committee of the European Parliament.
Report by Slawek Szefs
The report was compiled by Polish MEP Marcin Libacki from Law and Justice. It has been approved by a sound majority of deputies. Despite attempts to introduce over a hundred amendments softening the report's critical tone, its main message has been preserved. It clearly enumerates threats posed to fish and bird species of the Baltic and points to potential catastrophic dangers should the construction works connecting Russian suppliers with their German clients encounter whole arsenals of World War Two munitions scattered on the sea bed. Therefore, the report suggests scaling down the investment scope and limiting the pipeline to land routes exclusively.
Maciej Muskat, director of Greenpeace Polska, is full of praise for the Petitions Committee and reminds that its courage and determination have been proven already two years ago when it took the side of environmentalists in the dispute over the planned Via Baltica highway leading through the protected Rospuda River Valley in north-eastern Poland. The Northern gas pipeline is a similar case, Muskat says: 'We also knew from the very begining that the decision to build the pipeline over the sea and not over land was based on purely political reasons. Even when we look at the economics of the whole investment project, even the economics of the Baltic pipeline is questionable. So, we are pleased with the findings of the report, with the conclusions of the europarliamentarians and we hope that not only will it be approved by the whole European Parliament, but also the European Commission will act accordingly.'
However, a full victory of the pipeline opponents is still quite far away. Andrzej Szczesniak, an energy fuel expert, remains skeptical and points to both procedural and economic reasons for this: 'The stand of the Committee of Petitions of the EP is only a resolution, it has no decisive weight. I think it's a part of Polish and Baltic states' policy to blockade this Nord Stream pipeline, because it is one of many efforts to make it economically unrealistic. It's a hard fight from the Polish and Baltic side. But I don't think it will be winning because of the very hard fundamentals that this pipeline has. It has the increasing demand from the European side for gas. If Europe wants to achieve this very high level of Kyoto targets, it has to be gas in Europe. That is why the message from Russia goes: if you don't want our gas, Russian gas, we can sell it in any other direction.'
The decision of the Petitions Committee is only the first step. Next, the report will be discussed in the European Parliament and ultimately voted on during a plenary session in July. If its highly critical assessment be preserved, the European Commission, which so far has been positively disposed towards the Northern pipeline project, will have to give serious consideration to the presented report's reservations.
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Post by tuftabis on Jul 9, 2008 3:24:11 GMT -7
27.05.2008 Eurodeputies opposing the construction of the northern gas pipeline on the Baltic Sea bed, linking Russia with Germany, have won a battle in the Petitions Committee of the European Parliament. They adopted a report prepared by Marcin Libicki, a Polish eurodeputy from the Law and Justice party, which highlights the environmental risks connected with this investment. The document will be discussed at a plenary session of the European Parliament in July. The document was voted yesterdayEuropean Parliament criticizes German-Russian Baltic pipeline 08.07.2008 The European Parliament has criticized the project of the German-Russian gas pipeline on the bottom of the Baltic Sea. Large majority of eurodeputies supported the report by Polish MEP Marcin Libicki in a vote on Tuesday.
My comment - Gazprom was able to buy former German chancellor Schreder, but obviously was not able to buy commonsense of democratically elected EU parliament members.
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