forza
Cosmopolitan
Posts: 514
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Post by forza on Nov 30, 2005 12:59:28 GMT -7
"I told him that I did have identification, but I wasn't going to show it to him. I knew that I wasn't required by law to show ID and that's why I decided I wasn't going to. The whole thing seemed to be more about compliance than security." The first security guard summoned a second security guard who demanded and was refused a show of ID by Davis. According to Davis, the guard shouted "grab her" and she was subdued and cuffed and escorted off the bus. more of the story ...www.denverpost.com/news/ci_3253063www.papersplease.org/davis/facts.htmlI have been living in US in the time of post 9/11 and have witnessed more of this type of non sense "prevention". Like for example I couldn't enter downtown office buildings without signing in my name in visitors book. There is a story of an Amtrak passenger who tried to buy a ticket when already on the train and was asked to leave at the next station since the procedures required that the tickets are purchased prior to entering the train. Well he was ON the train already. If he was to blow it he'd do it already. Right? |
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Post by bescheid on Nov 30, 2005 15:31:31 GMT -7
Forza
Interesting situation Miss Davis got her self into. It would be interesting to know what origionally led up to the incident prier to her situation.
It apparantly is on a Federal reservation subject to that discretion of location in accordance to Federal Law.
The other apparant is: Miss Davis had made a premeditated resolve to not provide requested Identification (in such cases, usually a show of drivers license or similar is all that is needed), or simply stated she would rather not show identification but, rather identifie her self by name and done so.
Because of the Guards mishandling of public contact, the guard provided probable cause by calling for a Federal Officer to handle what should have been a simple ID check, for what ever standing orders he had prior, and rather he was properly following those procedures.
Arrest: Once Miss Davis had no longer the freedom of movement on the bus, at that point, she was physically arrested.
Last: It would be a good guess that, the Federal Police Officer will for a long time, hold a high degree of irritation for Guards who are incompetent as to not be able to control the situation he is responsible for.
Charles
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Post by hollister on Nov 30, 2005 15:44:19 GMT -7
I think this case highlights a fundamental problem/issue facing Americans post 9/11. How far are we as individuals willing to submit to and accept federal intervention into our lives in the name of being provided "security."
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Post by kaima on Nov 30, 2005 22:12:01 GMT -7
I think this case highlights a fundamental problem/issue facing Americans post 9/11. How far are we as individuals willing to submit to and accept federal intervention into our lives in the name of being provided "security." Right you are. Many Americans are fond of saying "freedom is not fre" but they are unwilling to keep their freedoms and the responsibility and perhaps danger that goes along with those freedoms. It is easier to submit to a police state and call that freedom! Kai the American |
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Post by Eric on Dec 10, 2005 5:25:58 GMT -7
Good thing that no one ever asks me for identification in the U.S., where the primary (almost exclusive) form of ID is the driver's license. Well, I don't drive, and I never will be able to, so I'll never have a driver's license. What can I show? A Kmart employee card, a UMass ID card, and if I remember to bring it, a passport. Of course, none of those show my address, so I could never write a check in the U.S., either.  In Russia, everyone is required to carry their passport with them (citizen's passport, not foreign-travel passport), and police are allowed to request to see the passport at any time for any reason. The only time it's regularly carried out, though, is when there is the threat of terrorism. Also, people from the southern republics of the former USSR are also checked frequently, especially in Moscow. Tourists, however, are checked much more frequently to make sure they have the proper registration and visa for being in Russia. I have an American-born friend in Moscow (for those who know, it's Kato) who says his passport is checked very frequently. I've never once had mine checked, though, like a good little Pioneer ("Always ready!"), I always carry mine with me. I don't know about the EU-Baltics, but as far as I know, every other former USSR republic maintains the citizen's passport laws. |
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Post by justjohn on Dec 10, 2005 6:31:17 GMT -7
Eric,
You should be able to get a state photo ID card which will serve as a legitimate form of id.
Kaima & hollister,
You are correct. We have given away a lot of our freedoms vis a vis 'The Patriot Act'.
Was it necessary? NO!!!!
Many of us old vets do not think that this is what we have fought for.
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Post by Eric on Dec 17, 2005 5:17:50 GMT -7
John - I really had no need to get a state ID card. Before I turned 18, I had a high school ID, and I never did anything that would require more. After I turned 18, I spent all but 4 months of the year at university, living on campus, so all I needed was the university ID. Again, I did nothing that would need any legitimate state ID.
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