Where does CIA has secret prisons in Europe ?

[Jaga]

Where does CIA has secret prisons in Europe ?

Nobody can find the prisons but.... journalists start to believe that the prisons exist since Condoleeza does not deny its existence, she just denies the torture

[Jaga]

Rice's European tour overshadowed by CIA claims

She came to power vowing to strengthen links with Washington but it is amid a trans-Atlantic row that Angela Merkel welcomed the US Secretary of State to Berlin. Condoleezza Rice is at the start of a European tour which has been overshadowed by claims that secret CIA flights have been used to transport terror suspects throughout the continent. Despite the controversy, the new chancellor reaffirmed her desire to build bridges - saying that not only European integration but also a trans-Atlantic partnership was in Germany's interest.

It is claimed that the CIA made extensive use of German airspace and airbases and that it mistakenly flew a German citizen to Afghanistan, holding him for months. Rice robustly defended US methods in what Washington calls its "war on terror".

"The United States does not condone torture," she said. "It is against US law to be involved in torture or conspiracy to commit torture and it is also against US international obligations."

But she added: "We have an obligation to defend our people and we will use every lawful means to do so." It appears questions over US methods will not fade away on her next stop - Romania.

Human rights groups claim the country housed one of several alleged secret CIA prisons - something Bucharest denies.

Rice held talks with Romanian leader Traian Basescu and signed a deal allowing the US to set up military bases on Romanian soil.

euronews.net/create_html.php?page=detail_info&article=324726&lng=1

[forza]

Polish location was confirmed by some unidentified CIA operatives to ABC news reporters.

[bescheid]

Hi Jaga

I did not vote, sorry. But, I just wanted to perhaps add a bit to your fine topic in concerns to CIA and secret prisons.

I realize that much has been publicized in regards to these reported East European secret prisons, and perhaps so there are. If they do exist, they are secret and no one is going to know, that is why they are secret.

The Washington picture painted with," War on Terror". Encompasses a considerable new latitude of what is allowable and legal (international standards). What is internationally legal, will encompass deprivations of sleep, fear of drowning, fear of death, deprivations of sensory perceptions and so on. As long as it will not injure, produce loss of limbs, eye sight, hearing or damage to the body or internal organs.

We must be careful with popular labels of torture with out foundation of proper information. The news people sell news, that is their business, and the vast majority are very reputable in their profession. There are a few that may have gone to sleep in the ethics class they were attending, who knows.

A situation though, that is strangely lacking though, is a shortage of professional interrogator officers. It is a skill not common as a profession. These are people that have the skill and application of use of psychological methods as means to gain the acceptance and cooperation of prisoners that are being interrogated. This with out laying a hand on them. As they (interrogators) know and understand, that a prisoner will under pain full torture, say any thing to relieve the pain, and so this type of interrogation is very counter productive and left to the communist style of brain washing and such.

www.truthout.org/docs_2005/printer_110905Z.shtml


The above is a url of some explanation, I meant not to make a book of this, or try to be a know it all, as the sky above our heads knows that. Just felt a need to put in my 5 cents for what ever.

Charles

[Jaga]

bescheid said:

We must be careful with popular labels of torture with out foundation of proper information. The news people sell news, that is their business, and the vast majority are very reputable in their profession. There are a few that may have gone to sleep in the ethics class they were attending, who knows.

A situation though, that is strangely lacking though, is a shortage of professional interrogator officers. It is a skill not common as a profession. These are people that have the skill and application of use of psychological methods as means to gain the acceptance and cooperation of prisoners that are being interrogated. This with out laying a hand on them. As they (interrogators) know and understand, that a prisoner will under pain full torture, say any thing to relieve the pain, and so this type of interrogation is very counter productive and left to the communist style of brain washing and such.

www.truthout.org/docs_2005/printer_110905Z.shtml


The above is a url of some explanation, I meant not to make a book of this, or try to be a know it all, as the sky above our heads knows that. Just felt a need to put in my 5 cents for what ever.

Charles

Charles,

very good point. It would be much better if American CIA as well as foreign serviced try to understands their enemies better and also try to persuade them to talk by psychological means rather than torture. You may know about it much more than me :0

I also understand that you do not feel like voting, this is just pure speculation....

[bescheid]

Hi Jaga

Actually I do enjoy voting, a sense of satisfaction and pleasure in joining with other members in sharing and contributing into our pool of knowledge. It is not that I am afraid to post my opinions, as it is information we as members share for common knowledge and for our common good.

It is this though, the web is accessed by out side non-members and I try to keep neutral as possible for that reason.

I do trust this makes some sense.

I will add to your fine article after re-accessing my personal e-mail for the German side, in consideration of the new Chancellor and what she has inherited into her new office.

With fine respect

Charles

[bescheid]

HI Jaga

Below is a rather lengthy explaination of the secret East European prison question. As it is no longer all allowable for use of airfields in Uzbekistan, it is now moved to Afghanistan. This the reason for a standing military presence in this regian (Afghanistan) to insure this is a protected regian and assurance of access.

The following is of a mistaken identification and bad information . The case officers in this instance failed to properly qualifie the person in question, that being of: Khaled Masri, German citizen born in Lebanon kidnapped flown to, and held against his will for 5 months in Afhanistan; since has been returned to his home and his fredom restored.



Rice Confronts CIA Transfers Case

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice steps out of her plane upon her arrival at Berlin's Tegel airport, 05 December 2005. Rice will meet German Foreign minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier and Chancellor Angela Merkel 06 December. Berlin is the first part of her visit to Europe on an offensive aimed at countering deep concerns over reported secret CIA prisons on European soil. AFP photo DDP/Oliver Lang Germany Out.
By Stefan Nicola

UPI Germany Correspondent

Kehl Am Rhein, Germany (UPI) Dec 05, 2005
Even as Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice was visiting Europe to deal with the furor over secret detention camps in and CIA stopovers at Europe's airports, Khaled Masri has become the unwilling poster child of the U.S. "extraordinary rendition" program.
Masri, a German citizen born in Lebanon, was reportedly abducted by the CIA on Dec. 31, 2003, at the Macedonian border and flown to Afghanistan. Masri was held for five months and then released in Albania after the CIA found out it had captured the wrong man.

Now several German lawmakers want Germany's former interior minister Otto Schily, who left office last month, to comment on a U.S. news report claiming he knew about Masri's wrongful abduction. The Washington Post on Dec. 4 reported that in May 2004, the U.S. Ambassador in Berlin, Daniel Coats, informed Schily about the Masri case. "There was also a request: that the German government not disclose what it had been told even if Masri went public," the newspaper said.

Wolfgang Bosbach, who heads the parliamentary faction of Chancellor Angela Merkel's Christian Democrat Union, told the online daily Netzeitung that the Post article contained the "extensive allegation that the German interior minister, who at the same time had the job to defend the constitution, remained silent about the abduction of a German national." Bosbach and several other politicians have called on Schily to comment, which he hasn't done so far.

Schily introduced tough anti-terror laws and was considered a hard line interior minister. While still in office he came under fire for ordering a raid on an investigative journalist who in an article revealed secrets about Germany's federal intelligence service, the BND.

Several lawmakers have speculated that former German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder and Frank-Walter Steinmeier, who then headed the chancellery and is now Germany's new foreign minister, must also have known of the Masri abduction. That would extend the list into the new left-right grand coalition government of German Chancellor Angela Merkel, who will meet with U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on Tuesday.

A German state prosecutor in Munich has been investigating the case since the summer of 2004. Masri alleges that he was tortured during his five-month-long detention; and Masri's lawyer, Manfred Gnjidic, wants to file suit in the United States to coincide with Rice's visit to Germany.

The Masri case is linked to the allegations that the CIA uses secret flights in Europe to transport terror suspects to secret prisons in third countries, the so-called "extraordinary rendition" program. So far, German officials have vowed they knew nothing of such a practice. But with the new report, those statements have come under increased scrutiny.

On Monday, Germany's newsmagazine Der Spiegel said the German government had a list of 437 CIA flights using German airspace and landings since Sept. 11, 2001. The list was handed over to the government by Germany's federal air navigation security agency at the request of the Left Party, a far-left group in Germany's parliament, the magazine said.

In a robust statement issued shortly before she left on a four-day tour of European capitals Monday, Rice focussed on a denial that the U.S. government uses torture. But she added that the United States would stay firm in the fight against terrorism, and use "every lawful weapon" to win that battle. Faced with mounting criticism in Europe, she argued that, "Rendition takes terrorists out of action and saves lives."

But she is expected to refuse to address the underlying question of whether the CIA runs secret prisons on air bases in Eastern Europe. "We cannot discuss information that would compromise the success of intelligence, law enforcement, and military operations,"she said in her statement.

Beate Rudolf, human rights expert at Berlin's Free University, told United Press International the German government should reveal what it knows about secret CIA flights and the Masri case. "If the German government indeed knew about any abduction, that would be terrible," she said. "We are talking about human rights violations of the most serious kind here."


Source: United Press International
Related Links

Charles

[sciwriter]

In Albania

[sciwriter]

Duplicate. Please ignore.

[bescheid]

Carl

Why would you say, Albania? The man was picked up in Macedonia just across the frontier. If Albania was already a prison site, then would it not be logical to have just motored the man there, to save flight cost?

Just curios is all

Charles

[forza]

Poland is getting on top of suspect places for CIA secret flights and I am starting to believe it could be true. Polish daily Wyborcza has sent some reporters to small airport location where they interview the locals. Reportedly there were some "Americans" landing several times, always on a short notice, always staying away from control tower and always accompanied by two minivans with tinted car windows. The airport was paid several times more for each landing, the custom duties were provided by special people arriving for the occasion etc, etc.
Of course it doesn't confirm that there are terror suspects prisons in Poland but leaves much to be investigated. PM Marcinkiewicz has ordered a an inquiry into it all.
English language news source around the world have shown a great deal of interest in Poland as main place for secret CIA flight.
Google News: Poland

[forza]

According to the tabloid daily Nowy Dzien:
Current director of Szymany airport was in Iraq where he was kidnapped by Iraqis and later rescued by Americans.
The paper concludes that US forces wouldn't bother to rescue somebody who wouldn't be useful for them.
Current director of Szymany airport used to supervise a very large agricultural farm where media reported some Talibans were seen flying in helicopters. It was explained then that businessmen of Afghanistan were inspecting the site.

Nowy dzien
bi.gazeta.pl/im/7/3059/m3059137.jpg

[Jaga]

I believe that the only good hiding places in Poland are in the region of ex-Prussia, Mazuria. But it is hard for me to believe that there was a really huge secret and conspired facility somewhere there. Poland is not Siberia