What do I think about Bin Laden?

[Jaga]

Here is one of the interviews with Bin Laden:
www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/interview.html

the last time Bin Laden was seen - was just before presidential elections. Do you think that he helped pres Bush to win?

[bescheid]

I voted: Murderer and terrorist

My reason of voted as such is this: The man is a liar, common criminal with out regard to human life or adherence to his so called Islamic faith.

My sincere hope is this: The man be caught, placed in an auto loaded within the doors, under the seat, and in the boot, with explosives, and detonated with him strapped in it, as an example for the remainder of his followers to be hunted and caught. Let it be personal to each and every one, to suffer while waiting their fate.

Let him die the way he has lived his life.

Now then, let me think, have I left out any worse fate? No, I think that would be sufficent, then the next step to continue with his friends.

This sounds, and is mean, but, his victims had no choice.

Charles

[Jaga]

Charles,

I am glad you noticed this post. Yesterday was quite a discussion about Bin Laden. I personally do not see him as a cold-blooded killer, I decided to vote and I see his as a hard-headed ideologist. I understand that some people see him as a hero although ideologists are dangerous! They may be worse than sadists unfortunately, becuase they know how to attract crowds of followers

[bescheid]

Jaga

I realize my post was on the nature of extreme, but, we in the civilized world are dealing with factions with the extreme intent of distroying civilization. All with reasons that are simply not reality, just an excuse to murder.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Terrorism/munich.html

The above is a well remembered event of many years back. Let us not forget who or what these people (terrorist) are. They are no different then as they are now.

What was the common feeling at your work of these people? Just curios.

Charles

[bescheid]

Jaga

The following url is a run down of the family of Bin Laden. It is rather lengthy so how ever you feel on reading through. Bin Ladin comes from a very good family with considerable international influence in respects to very large construction projects.

There will be some notations of adverse viewpoints by PBS, in this case, PBS is only the vehicle of carrier of this information and their view points must be considered as channeled by American perspective observation.

www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/family.html

Charles

[bescheid]

Jaga

Ok, ok, I will here by, forth wit, cease with one last bit of long winded information URL. At least, quick scan some highlights. It may be what you already know and what you already suspect. But, it is here.

billstclair.com/911timeline/main/AAsaudi.html

What it does indicate to some respect is: In spite of what ever religious views are prominent of Arab truthfulness, they are just people, and subject to what the rest of the human race is stuck with. Greed, power,sex and money. All the weaknesses looked for by investigators (intelligence officers).

Charles

[Pawian]

Did Bin Laden personally kill anybody? I am not sure about it.

He seems to be like Hitler who sent his murderers all over Europe, ordering them to kill as many as possible. Bin Laden has been doing the same, sending his fanatic suicide warriors on killing missions in the US or London etc.

That is why I chose only a fanatic religious ideologist.

[bescheid]

Pawian

Your opinon of Usamah bin Laden is most likely closer to the mark and shows your thoughtfulness to the subject.

I tend to raise my hackles for the moment, then moderate.

I hold a great respect for your subject opinon

Charles

[sciwriter]

I voted fanatic & ideologist, and I think he financed 911. He is a racist who resents being rejected by light skin Saudis as a youngster.Also IMO he bribed the right people so he won't be captured. Carl

[Jaga]

I would not like to be around Bin Laden because he is very strict towards women but still, I do think that he is mainly the ideologist and if he kills it is to prove his point.

[bescheid]

With this Bin Ladin charactor, I am not so sure he is still alive. For one thing, there has not been any proof of his living existance since the bombing of Afganistan. Hopefully, the man is under about 500 metric tones of rock and earth where even the worms may not locate him.

Charles

[jimpres]

I voted murderer and terroist even if he did not kill anyone himself he aided and abeted those who did and in the US it's the same a commiting the crime yourself.

[pieter]

I voted "He is a complex and messed up individual", because he is more than just a murderer and terrorist and
a fanatic ideologist, he is also a briliant ideologue, tactical leader and strategist.
No other terrorist leader managed to stay that strong for so long, because other guys were caught, assasinated
or bombed by Western agencies or the Mossad.

[jimpres]

And here is how a Pakistani thinks, and he is not alone in the Arab world.
Pakistani killed daughters to save 'honor'

By Khalid Tanveer, Associated Press Writer | December 29, 2005

MULTAN, Pakistan --Nazir Ahmed appears calm and unrepentant as he recounts how he slit the throats of his three young daughters and their 25-year old stepsister to salvage his family's "honor" -- a crime that shocked Pakistan.

The 40-year old laborer, speaking to The Associated Press in police detention as he was being shifted to prison, confessed to just one regret -- that he didn't murder the stepsister's alleged lover too.

Hundreds of girls and women are murdered by male relatives each year in this conservative Islamic nation, and rights groups said Wednesday such "honor killings" will only stop when authorities get serious about punishing perpetrators.

The independent Human Rights Commission of Pakistan said that in more than half of such cases that make it to court, most end with cash settlements paid by relatives to the victims' families, although under a law passed last year, the minimum penalty is 10 years, the maximum death by hanging.

Ahmed's killing spree -- witnessed by his wife Rehmat Bibi as she cradled their 3 month-old baby son -- happened Friday night at their home in the cotton-growing village of Gago Mandi in eastern Punjab province.

It is the latest of more than 260 such honor killings documented by the rights commission, mostly from media reports, during the first 11 months of 2005.

Bibi recounted how she was woken by a shriek as Ahmed put his hand to the mouth of his stepdaughter Muqadas and cut her throat with a machete. Bibi looked helplessly on from the corner of the room as he then killed the three girls -- Bano, 8, Sumaira, 7, and Humaira, 4 -- pausing between the slayings to brandish the bloodstained knife at his wife, warning her not to intervene or raise alarm.

"I was shivering with fear. I did not know how to save my daughters," Bibi, sobbing, told AP by phone from the village. "I begged my husband to spare my daughters but he said, 'If you make a noise, I will kill you.'"

"The whole night the bodies of my daughters lay in front of me," she said.

The next morning, Ahmed was arrested.

Speaking to AP in the back of police pickup truck late Tuesday as he was shifted to a prison in the city of Multan, Ahmed showed no contrition. Appearing disheveled but composed, he said he killed Muqadas because she had committed adultery, and his daughters because he didn't want them to do the same when they grew up.

He said he bought a butcher's knife and a machete after midday prayers on Friday and hid them in the house where he carried out the killings.

"I thought the younger girls would do what their eldest sister had done, so they should be eliminated," he said, his hands cuffed, his face unshaven. "We are poor people and we have nothing else to protect but our honor."

Despite Ahmed's contention that Muqadas had committed adultery -- a claim made by her husband -- the rights commission reported that according to local people, Muqadas had fled her husband because he had abused her and forced her to work in a brick-making factory.

Police have said they do not know the identity or whereabouts of Muqadas' alleged lover.

Muqadas was Bibi's daughter by her first marriage to Ahmed's brother, who died 14 years ago. Ahmed married his brother's widow, as is customary under Islamic tradition.

"Women are treated as property and those committing crimes against them do not get punished," said the rights commission's director, Kamla Hyat. "The steps taken by our government have made no real difference."

Activists accuse President Gen. Pervez Musharraf, a self-styled moderate Muslim, of reluctance to reform outdated Islamized laws that make it difficult to secure convictions in rape, acid attacks and other cases of violence against women. They say police are often reluctant to prosecute, regarding such crimes as family disputes.

Statistics on honor killings are confused and imprecise, but figures from the rights commission's Web site and its officials show a marked reduction in cases this year: 267 in the first 11 months of 2005, compared with 579 during all of 2004. The Ministry of Women's Development said it had no reliable figures.

Ijaz Elahi, the ministry's joint secretary, said the violence was decreasing and that increasing numbers of victims were reporting incidents to police or the media. Laws, including one passed last year to beef up penalties for honor killings, had been toughened, she said.

Police in Multan said they would complete their investigation into Ahmed's case in the next two weeks and that he faces the death sentence if he is convicted for the killings and terrorizing his neighborhood.

Ahmed, who did not resist arrest, was unrepentant.

"I told the police that I am an honorable father and I slaughtered my dishonored daughter and the three other girls," he said. "I wish that I get a chance to eliminate the boy she ran away with and set his home on fire."

[bescheid]

Jim

Good presentation, wish I had not seen it...Actually, had to delete my earlier post reply as it was unsuitable and found deficient for viewing. I would only suppose I must face my own prejudice with Islamic principals, and those that use it for their own purposes of ignorance and murder.

For why or how, may a man as of this Nazir Ahmed, fully justify the brutal murder of his family, and call it," Honour". It is just not logical. His motive lacks entirely any logical justification for his actions.

Hopefully, the court system that the man will face, will administer proper and logical justice to this man.

Charles