|
Post by tuftabis on Nov 7, 2008 3:30:48 GMT -7
Recently in Poland a problem of Jugendamt is given attention. Today even the Rzeczpospolita newspaper writes about it on the first page. „Mother hides with her son and asks politicians for help. -Why have I kidnapped my son? Because I feel discriminated by German authorities”. Jugendamt is a German institution for child protecction. It has unrestricted power over families and can retrieve chlidren from their parents without a court order, hinder the use of mother tongue etc. Currently there are several hundred complains against Jugendamt in European Union institutions, mainly from Poland, France, USA and Greece. So hopefully this scandalous activity will be soon stopped and brought to European standards. While reading the article I thought about Pieter, as you've experience with ppl in intemarriages, since you have once wrote I have asked my friends in France and Chech Reprublic already this morning, and yes they have heard about the problem. A Polish TV programme,with English translation, really moving though and hard to believe such action take place in the heart of modern-day Europe. video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3266717204892383935&hl=en
|
|
|
Post by karl on Nov 7, 2008 12:53:52 GMT -7
|
|
Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
|
Post by Pawian on Nov 7, 2008 15:00:12 GMT -7
Yes, I remember reading articles about it. Polish fathers who divorced their German wives run into incredible problems if they want to meet their kids. And speaking Polish during meetings is forbidden. If they do, the father loses the right to see the kid.
It is really unbelievable.
|
|
|
Post by kaima on Nov 7, 2008 15:10:10 GMT -7
Yes, I remember reading articles about it. Polish fathers who divorced their German wives run into incredible problems if they want to meet their kids. And speaking Polish during meetings is forbidden. If they do, the father loses the right to see the kid. It is really unbelievable. Pawi, It sounds like the historic Colonial mentality is still there, the old Drang nach Osten with its extremes in the last century. Kai
|
|
Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
|
Post by Pawian on Nov 7, 2008 15:21:06 GMT -7
Pawi, It sounds like the historic Colonial mentality is still there, the old Drang nach Osten with its extremes in the last century. Kai Probably Germans try to keep the purity of the language or even race (too late) but the methods they use remind us of WW2 regulations and certainly have some impact on Poles` attitude towards their Western neigbours.
|
|
|
Post by karl on Nov 7, 2008 18:49:38 GMT -7
I think perhaps there are much of confusion in regards to the laws pertaining to divorce. For marriage is a very serious matter and protection for the off spring of the marriage is of the up-most-importance. It is not just of Polish parent, but other of Foreign parent this would pertain to. If one is to consider the complications and confusion evovling with the child of broken marriage. It is very natural to keep the complications at this time of sensitivity to be that kept at the minimal, and this would include that of the child's normal language. At the later time as sensitivities are healed, then of course, the child if wishes to be learnt of another language, of course it should be accomplished. It should be remembered that there are for some many years, a great many marriages involved of many different races in Germany. Not just Polish as the news print of this subject indicates, but also that of France/Holland/Turk/Russian and of many others. The intent is for protection of the child, not as a modern purity law. As an indication of the extent of our divorce laws extend, the following url is in English for clarity. www.international-divorce.com/d-germany.htmKarl
|
|
|
Post by kaima on Nov 7, 2008 19:08:50 GMT -7
Pawi, Karl,
To me this seems an ideal issue for the EU to regulate. It would seem to fall under basic human rights as well as minorities right. Both are thorny issues. The advantage I see in the EU setting standard uniform rules is that it must be followed EU wide, thus protecting Germans in Poland as well as Poles in Germany (+ all the other countries). That should help remove it from the coloration of history, as in the specific case raised here.
Now I wonder. If EU recognizes Kosovo, shouldn't they do the same for Basque country?
Kai
|
|
|
Post by tuftabis on Nov 8, 2008 5:24:09 GMT -7
Bonobo, the Polish fathers' problem you mention is being raised in the footage as well video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3266717204892383935&hl=enKai, I agree with you about the role of EU, I disagree concerning the 'colouration of hstory' being involved here. None historical events (like the German Nazi predecessor of Jugendamt) are mentioned in the Polish press I read, none in the excellent journalists' work I provided a link to. Charles, nieodmiennie waszemość niepospolitą wręcz uprzejmością wyróżnia się pozostając wiernym, oby nie zanadto miernym.
|
|
|
Post by tuftabis on Nov 8, 2008 5:26:23 GMT -7
|
|
|
Post by freetobe on Nov 8, 2008 22:13:46 GMT -7
Kai and tuftabis, How can this be? I can't read Polish so the newspaper article is meaningless. How can the German Government take Poloish children from their parents? Some one please enlighten me. Thanks.
|
|
Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
|
Post by Pawian on Nov 9, 2008 0:47:34 GMT -7
It is not just of Polish parent, but other of Foreign parent this would pertain to. It should be remembered that there are for some many years, a great many marriages involved of many different races in Germany. Not just Polish as the news print of this subject indicates, but also that of France/Holland/Turk/Russian and of many others. Yes. The film provided by Tufta describes how French, Polish and other parents got together and sent a petition to the European Complaint Committee. German government was asked to explain the matter. As a teacher of a foreign language, I must turn down this view. Children, when addressed in two languages by their mixed-nationality parents, acquire both without any difficulty and become bilingual and bicultural. Being bilingual has a very positive influence on them and the perfect knowledge of two languages may help them in their career later on. When a child becomes adult? Then it is too late... Unfortunately, it seems a new German purity law invented and implemented by some eager German beaurocrats from Jugendamt. They take kids from parents even without court`s decision. Yes, it throws good light on the problem. Kai and tuftabis, How can this be? I can't read Polish so the newspaper article is meaningless. How can the German Government take Poloish children from their parents? Some one please enlighten me. Thanks. If you watch this movie above, you will understand everything. Hope your connection is fast enough.
|
|
|
Post by pieter on Nov 9, 2008 6:06:19 GMT -7
Jugendamt is a German institution for child protecction. It has unrestricted power over families and can retrieve chlidren from their parents without a court order, hinder the use of mother tongue etc. Currently there are several hundred complains against Jugendamt in European Union institutions, mainly from Poland, France, USA and Greece. So hopefully this scandalous activity will be soon stopped and brought to European standards. While reading the article I thought about Pieter, as you've experience with ppl in intemarriages, since you have once wrote Tuftabis I have'nt heard about the problem. I honestly don't know if this is because the topic did not came up in the conversations with my friends. Because of this question I just called one of these German-Dutch friends. She said she never had any problems with the German side, but explained me that there is a differance between Dutch-German and German-Dutch people. She knows an example from her circle of friends of a German women who is married with a Dutch friend of my friend. They live in the Nehterlands. In the family of this German woman her German mother was dominant, and she was raised German centric only. So when she came to the Netherlands she was like any other German. I have met her on a party of friends in Amsterdam. She spoke like a German with a heavy German accent. Mostly people who are children of a Dutch Father and a German mother, or a Dutch mother and a German father speak both languages. This German woman with Dutch roots did not appear mixed to me, because she seemed 100% German. I did not find her attractive in social sense, because she could not speak Dutch well although she has a Dutch father. Imagine, Dutch and German are very close to eachother, it is differant than in my case Dutch and Polish, which are completely unrelated languages and cultures. Another very dear friend to mine, has a Dutch father and a German mother who was born and raised in Germany, near Kleve. I know from her that she and her family were considered differantly, because they were differant from others. But she often went to the Netherlands to her family in the Western coastal area, and she loved to go out in the Dutch city Nijmegen as a teenager across the border. Pieter
|
|
|
Post by pieter on Nov 9, 2008 6:24:07 GMT -7
As a teacher of a foreign language, I must turn down this view. Children, when addressed in two languages by their mixed-nationality parents, acquire both without any difficulty and become bilingual and bicultural. Being bilingual has a very positive influence on them and the perfect knowledge of two languages may help them in their career later on. Pawian, I agree with you, but I am unfortunately a bad example, because I am the result of monocultural and one language upbringing, due to a Dutch centric family, who was not hostile to Poland, but concerned about my Dutch future. Only my own interest kept my ties to Poland living, because many people who move to another country in time lose their attachement or mental Umbilical cord with the country where they were born and raised. This often means that they will focus on the upbringing of the child in the country they are living in. In the same time for a long period she thought Poland was lost for ever, because the country was a Communist state. Pieter
|
|
|
Post by pieter on Nov 9, 2008 7:18:11 GMT -7
Tuftabis, I have seen half of the movie, I have to go to a birthdayparty now, and therefor I will react in the evening. I watched it very carefully, and the program looked like a Dutch program I know how researches wrongdoings by companies and authorities. It's very interesting material. Wehn I have watched the whole movie I will respond. Please understand that my reaction will be a reaction from a Western-European point of view. Germany is our Eastern neighbour and Poland is on the other side of that neighbour! We have our past with our Eastern neighbour, which is healing with our new generations. The Polish-German relationship is far more complicated than the Dutch-German relationship. I have to dig deper into this subject this evening. It is indeed a very sad, tragic story! I have to go now, but will be back! Pieter
|
|
|
Post by tuftabis on Nov 9, 2008 7:24:19 GMT -7
Please understand that my reaction will be a reaction from a Western-European point of view. Germany is our Eastern neighbour and Poland is on the other side of that neighbour! We have our past with our Eastern neighbour, which is healing with our new generations. The Polish-German relationship is far more complicated than the Dutch-German relationship. I have to dig deper into this subject this evening. It is indeed a very sad, tragic story! I have to go now, but will be back! Pieter Pieter, of course I understand you'll answer as a Western-European. Thanks for responding and letting me know the news was new to you. Have a great evening
|
|