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Post by Jaga on Jan 28, 2006 12:45:43 GMT -7
I guess, I cannot stop of posting controversial but important polls...
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Post by bescheid on Jan 28, 2006 17:43:10 GMT -7
I voted something else. And, I respect your presentations of controversial subjects and also, may I add, I admire those (your self) with the guts and intelligence to step above the lower class of herd survival instinct oriented individuals. for one thing, they have no class, the other, they have very little imagination for creativity.
As a Teutonic, I will speak my mind. My name of Strawn, is of that loused hair warrior style that was a battle worn with nothing less then a spear born by a silly warrior astride of two hoses for power and speed. (kinda of scared the sandals off the Romans)
The Americans, have forgotten what their history, their forefathers had forged out of nothing. Hard work, dedication to an ideal of success. To create, make happen, insure, that they will not be in want again.
Well, unless I am shut up, I will continue: The Americans have now, taken the work ethic of their fathers father, and turned it into the followers of a very *friendly* person. They now want every thing for nothing! period. With out hard work, with out risk, but, to pay off some union to talk for them. Well, the bubble was nothing but an allusion, this the so called prosperity after the war.
If the Americans do not want to work, well, there are certainly many other nationals that are will ing to work. And to them, will go the success.
Charles
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aadam
Junior Pole
Posts: 130
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Post by aadam on Jan 30, 2006 2:14:09 GMT -7
I guess, I cannot stop of posting controversial but important polls... Yes, the poll questions are extremely biased indeed. And so the poll is useless, sorry about that...
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Post by bescheid on Jan 30, 2006 9:03:50 GMT -7
Aadam
This is not a post of critiquing, but, a request. I am interested in what you think and your feeling of the original subject matter.
What ever you have that is on your mind. Some sort of foundation of thought to perhaps, expand upon.
My icon of description centred on, " Work Ethic". But, this is much too narrow. I have a feeling that your input would in-self, broaden out this discussion to a higher plain of understanding.
If perhaps, you would rather not, then that is ok also.
Charles
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nancy
European
Posts: 2,144
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Post by nancy on Jan 30, 2006 9:08:23 GMT -7
Jaga, I have been thinking about this off and on since you posted the poll. First, I am not sure that I understand your poll question completely - "lower life standard": lower compared with what? a different time period? a different country? Whatever, the current situation in the US is far more complex than just being the result of events over the last few years (i.e., Bush administration). For instance, trade unions were once necessary and important in getting decent conditions for workers. They have accomplished their purpose, but like any organization that becomes powerful, now do not want to let go of that power and are perhaps abusing it to the ultimate detriment of their members. I am not even sure how to end this post - except to comment that I do not agree with Charles' comments that Americans have forgotten their history and do not want to work
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Post by bescheid on Jan 30, 2006 9:49:53 GMT -7
Nancy
Yes, I did use too broad a brush stroke on that statement of: Americans have forgotten their history and do not want to work. It was inflammatory yes, but, it did get a response....
I was thinking of your comment of trade unions and becoming to strong. Would this not be the fault of the working membership? For after all, the unions are subject to voted decisions of their membership, are they not? Or, perhaps I am ill-informed on their process.
The other question of mind that of the unions. Is the basic principal of their existence.
Would this be not, that of to insure democracy in the work place? Or, is this not true? I am only asking, as I do not know..
I am very unsure of the purpose of otherwise, unions, but, the name as given of: "Trade Unions", would not this denote, that it is an assurance of quality held to a certain standard. This being total control of craftsman in training and skill competency?
Charles
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Post by Jaga on Jan 30, 2006 14:00:59 GMT -7
Jaga, I have been thinking about this off and on since you posted the poll. First, I am not sure that I understand your poll question completely - "lower life standard": lower compared with what? a different time period? a different country? Whatever, the current situation in the US is far more complex than just being the result of events over the last few years (i.e., Bush administration). For instance, trade unions were once necessary and important in getting decent conditions for workers. They have accomplished their purpose, but like any organization that becomes powerful, now do not want to let go of that power and are perhaps abusing it to the ultimate detriment of their members. Nancy, I understand your concerns about the question. I understand that not everybody even agree that the situation is worse - I watch Lou Dobbs programs and there are a couple of issues which help to understand why it is worse: 1) the biggest employer is Wallmart - service jobs, low salaries, poor benefits 2) disappearance of good paid manufactures jobs 3) growing disproportion between CEO salaries and average people salaries 4) Huge trade deficit (I cannot understand but the warmongers from Fox News call for military action agains Iran now as like... the US had infinite military power) I also agree that Unions have an important role to play, I also understand that in the current situation they cannot fight for too much because the economy is global. Americans are very hard-working, not too much vacations, less benefits than in the past but also some people spend way too much!
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aadam
Junior Pole
Posts: 130
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Post by aadam on Jan 30, 2006 23:11:57 GMT -7
Aadam This is not a post of critiquing, but, a request. I am interested in what you think and your feeling of the original subject matter. What ever you have that is on your mind. Some sort of foundation of thought to perhaps, expand upon. /.../ Charles Hello Charles. I think that poll questions should be absolutely neutral. The above questions are not, you can see the political choices of the author through the questions. What is more both teh questions and even the title of the pole is heavily suggesting. I - for one -am not sure if "life standard in US is - GENERALLY- lower'. ANd besides that - lower than what or lower than when? And biased questions elicite biased answers. sorry about that. You have concentrated on work ethics writing "the Americans, have forgotten what their history, their forefathers had forged out of nothing. Hard work, dedication to an ideal of success". If you write something like that about ALL Americans this is an obvious false to me, because I personallu know more then one (and one would be enough to proive you're wrong) American who could serve as a perfect example of the work ethics ideal. Etc.etc. I think that Nancy has explained that in hers postr much better then I did. Please don't mind such an open explication what I think, I nonetheless like to read your posts, I learn a lot about US ( and Germany too) from your writings -m even if sometimes I have different opinions then you do. These are only may opinions and in the end it is you who might be right and I may be completely wrong All the best to you, Charles.
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Post by bescheid on Jan 31, 2006 8:23:59 GMT -7
Aadam
Thank you for your post return, also, a double thank you for your personal and intrinsic thoughts. Now, I have a standard known to go by.
Your standards of judgement had given cause for thought on this subject, on my thinking and rational. I am beginning to realize that what you have brought into focus, is very correct, I had generalized with the subject and as thus, in violation of my personal ethics and training.
With this violation, it is very logical to say: I have brought dishonour with my post information, to a vast majourity of working Americans. For this I am deeply sorry and opologetic for my actions.
Thank you once again Aadam
Charles
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Post by bescheid on Jan 31, 2006 8:53:08 GMT -7
All
To all that may have been offended.
Please do disreguard my previous post consisting of criticism of American working people as," lacking in work ethics".
I was deeply in error by generalizing and using wrong assumptions and have in association with these actions, brought dishonour to my friends here and all American working people.
In doing so, also have I violated my own personal ethics, training and this is unforgivable.
For this, I am very deeply sorry for my actions and in debt to all for forgiveness.
Charles
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nancy
European
Posts: 2,144
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Post by nancy on Jan 31, 2006 9:07:34 GMT -7
Don't worry, Charles, this hard-working American forgives you!
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Post by justjohn on Jan 31, 2006 9:31:20 GMT -7
Don't worry, Charles, this hard-working American forgives you! Same here Charles !!!!
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Post by bescheid on Jan 31, 2006 11:43:43 GMT -7
Nancy and Just John (JJ)
Thank you both, it was so very nice of you both to post a reply, it is most appreciated. I did mean what I said, it was a misjudgment on my part.
Charles
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Post by Jaga on Feb 24, 2006 9:58:55 GMT -7
Yesterday news were stating that the average family income is lowering since 2001. It was increasing for the earlier 8 years. I think it matches well the change in the presidents and their policies. here is more: Average family income drops 2.3% By Sue Kirchhoff, USA TODAY The 2001 recession was shallow, but its effects were steep. Average family incomes fell in the USA from 2001 to 2004, pulled down by a sluggish recovery from the downturn and the sharp stock market drop, the Federal Reserve said Thursday. The decline — the first since 1989-92 — was accompanied by the smallest increase in net worth in that period. In its comprehensive Survey of Consumer Finances, released every three years, the Fed said the median net worth of the bottom 40% of families declined, while those at the top saw gains. The percentage of families investing in stocks fell 3.3 percentage points to 48.6% from 2001 to 2004, a level last reached some time between the 1995 and 1998 surveys. Mark Zandi, chief economist of Moody's Economy.com, says job growth and incomes have been picking up since the survey period. But the report provides more troubling evidence of a rising gap in wealth in the USA. "The household balance sheet is in good shape, better shape today ... but it's not improved for everybody. It's improved for the people in the top distribution of income and wealth," he says. From 2001 to 2004, average family income fell 2.3%, to an inflation-adjusted $70,700 from $72,400 in the 1998-2001 period. By contrast, from 1998 to 2001, average income jumped 17.3%. Median income — the midpoint of the income range — rose 1.6% to $43,200. Fed economists said the figures were "strongly influenced" by a more-than-6% drop in median real wages during the period. Also, investment income was less than in the stock market boom years of the late 1990s. (Related: Full report) Real net worth — the difference between family assets and liabilities — rose only slightly from 2001 to 2004. Median net worth rose only 1.5% to $93,100 during the period, vs. a 10.3% gain from 1998 to 2001. And liabilities rose faster than assets, due largely to a big rise in mortgage debt. Though the economy was in recession in 2001, it steadily improved from 2002 to 2004 with low inflation and falling unemployment. There was some good news in the report. Minorities, who have long lagged behind whites in income, saw healthier gains. Homeownership rates rose. Still, minority income remains much lower, about 60% of whites. "The measured gains in wealth in the 2001-04 period pale in comparison with the increases of the preceding three years," wrote Fed economists Brian Bucks, Arthur Kennickell and Kevin Moore. www.usatoday.com/money/economy/income/2006-02-23-fed-incomes_x.htm
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Post by Jaga on Feb 24, 2006 10:00:06 GMT -7
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