German frigate stops pirate attack

[Jaga]

But I wish German kept the pirates! Maybe they would learn something more about them and how they plan the attacks.

(CNN) -- German sailors foiled an attempt by pirates to hijack an Egyptian cargo ship off the coast of Yemen, the German Defense Ministry said.


Pirates like these threaten the Somalian coast.

The German navy frigate Karlsruhe responded to an emergency call from the Wabi Al Arab Thursday morning, sending helicopters to the stricken vessel. When the helicopters arrived, the pirates broke off the attack, the ministry said.

A crew member on the Wabi Al Arab was wounded when the pirates attempted to board the vessel. He was flown by helicopter for treatment aboard the Karlsruhe, the ministry said.

The German sailors captured the pirates and disarmed them, destroying the weapons, the ministry said.

The German government in Berlin later ordered the Somali pirates released because they were not caught while harassing German interests, according to BBC.??

www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/12/25/somalia.germany/

[archivist]

We are 200 years too late to make the punishment fit the crime. They can't be hung from the yardarm or made to walk the plank. There are too many do-gooders, especially in this country, to allow that to happen unchallenged. You must not harm these killers - after all, society is to blame. If we cruelly insist on not giving these people enough to live a life of luxury without work, we should not be surprised if they kill, rape loot and pillage. And since it's our fault, we must not even think of punishing them. We should talk to them and teach them the error of their ways then they will stop being naughty. Yeah!

Let's be honest, the Germans had no chance - they were damned whatever they did.

Neville

[redneck]

Insanity....

[karl]

Jaga

Yes, this came across my desk for as you have presented. What is effective and what is reality is of different. For our constitution of {Basic Law} precludes a pre-enpt situation.

For as I am not the voice of our Government. But, I may offer of that of reality and of will of effective action we as people do know and understand.

The event of our ship of war in action against a pirate ship of the sea in International waters. The action would require 1st of warning by siren and radio of decease of action and cut of power for border. Then if ignored, then with small kalobour of machine gun rake across the decking for to null of crew to take of action. Then if power is not cut, the ship to be machine gunned from bow to stern, upon the water line for sinking. Then for stand bye for pick up of survivors out of the sea.

www.germany.info/Vertretung/usa/en/__PR/P__Wash/2008/12/19__Atalanta__Mission__PR,archiveCtx=1992696.html

What is not brought forward: If this ship is sunk, then what of?

Karl

[archivist]

Karl,

If your navy attacked and sank the pirate ship and summarily hung all the pirates from the yard arm, every nation in the world would publicly condemn you and there would be stories in all the tabloids screaming "Hitler Returns". But everyone would secretly applaud your actions - that's just the kind of hypocracy you can expect. Believe me, my friend, even the most rabid anti-German would have to admit that this Englishman's previous statement was correct: "The Germans were damned whatever they did." I believe that able seaman Hans Schmidt, on board the Karlsruhe and clerk, Johannes Braun in the German Defence Ministry, would love to have taken a more firm stance. But if you did, you would find that your seamen were war criminals or something equally stupid.

Karl, as an older man, you know as well as I do that Germany's forces have to be twice as careful as anyone else's to avoid such stupid criticism. They are on what we Brits call a hiding to nothing. Because of the events of WW2, they are far more likely to be questioned on acts of violence. Make no mistake, my friend, I am not trying to rub your nose in past history. I am trying to say that your forces have to be super-sensitive because of those who won't forget (even though they weren't born) the events leading up to and during the war.

I SAY AGAIN "The Germans were damned, whatever they did."

I know that you are likely to me more critical of your National forces than anyone else, but read between the lines and understand that the German forces will have a lot more support than you may think. They will also have a lot more people including the old enemy (me) wishing they had been able to do more. Karl, I have astonished myself (It's quite funny really!) I never believed, in a million years, that I would find myself wishing that the German Navy had sunk a ship!

I hope you can accept this message in the spirit in which it is sent.

Neville

[karl]

Dec 26, 2008 17:22:23 GMT -7 archivist said:

Karl,

If your navy attacked and sank the pirate ship and summarily hung all the pirates from the yard arm, every nation in the world would publicly condemn you and there would be stories in all the tabloids screaming "Hitler Returns". But everyone would secretly applaud your actions - that's just the kind of hypocracy you can expect. Believe me, my friend, even the most rabid anti-German would have to admit that this Englishman's previous statement was correct: "The Germans were damned whatever they did." I believe that able seaman Hans Schmidt, on board the Karlsruhe and clerk, Johannes Braun in the German Defence Ministry, would love to have taken a more firm stance. But if you did, you would find that your seamen were war criminals or something equally stupid.

Karl, as an older man, you know as well as I do that Germany's forces have to be twice as careful as anyone else's to avoid such stupid criticism. They are on what we Brits call a hiding to nothing. Because of the events of WW2, they are far more likely to be questioned on acts of violence. Make no mistake, my friend, I am not trying to rub your nose in past history. I am trying to say that your forces have to be super-sensitive because of those who won't forget (even though they weren't born) the events leading up to and during the war.

I SAY AGAIN "The Germans were damned, whatever they did."

I know that you are likely to me more critical of your National forces than anyone else, but read between the lines and understand that the German forces will have a lot more support than you may think. They will also have a lot more people including the old enemy (me) wishing they had been able to do more. Karl, I have astonished myself (It's quite funny really!) I never believed, in a million years, that I would find myself wishing that the German Navy had sunk a ship!

I hope you can accept this message in the spirit in which it is sent.

Neville

Neville

Thank you for our very nice manner of presentation of facts. It is as you say, a problem of some magnitude in reguards to international waters and piracy predation that currantly prevails.

As a person, yes of course I am very concerned of a warship of my nation on actice patrol in International waters. But, this is not to preclude as a international vehicle of protection for the common interest of International commerce of all nations.

The presence and actions of this warship are covered under: UNCLOS Artical 101:

Definition of piracy

Piracy consists of any of the following acts:

(a) any illegal acts of violence or detention, or any act of depredation, committed for private ends by the crew or the passengers of a private ship or a private aircraft, and directed:

(i) on the high seas, against another ship or aircraft, or against persons or property on board such ship or aircraft;

(ii) against a ship, aircraft, persons or property in a place outside the jurisdiction of any State;

(b) any act of voluntary participation in the operation of a ship or of an aircraft with knowledge of facts making it a pirate ship or aircraft;

(c) any act of inciting or of intentionally facilitating an act described in subparagraph (a) or (b).

The following url: please to scoll down to title: High Seas, then to aritcal {101}

www.un.org/Depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/closindx.htm

The following is a statement of duties: {All states have a duty for the repression of piracy}

www.un.int/sweden/pages/eu/state_eu/stmay10.htm

Karl

[archivist]

Like most people, Karl,

I don't care about the legality. What is law is law, but what is right is clearer and easier to understand. Our lawmakers only understand politics ie black is grey; white is grey; blue is grey; red is grey................do you get the picture? Legislation is not written in plain English and most normal (highly intelligent) people cannot understand it. This is a deliberate act by the legislators and is intended to confuse the voters. If we could understand what the hell they were doing we'd kick them out pretty quickly. They are making too good and too easy a living to allow us to do that.

Any way, if your Captain Schmidt or whoever, sunk the pirate ship, he might be crucified by your politicians, but he would be revered by ordinary citizens across the planet.

Government opprobium usually equates to public adulation.

I feel sorry for the Captain of your frigate and I am sure he would like to have sunk the pirates as much as we would have liked him to do it. That's no war crime, my friend.

Neville

[karl]

Dec 28, 2008 14:03:39 GMT -7 archivist said:

Like most people, Karl,

I don't care about the legality. What is law is law, but what is right is clearer and easier to understand. Our lawmakers only understand politics ie black is grey; white is grey; blue is grey; red is grey................do you get the picture? Legislation is not written in plain English and most normal (highly intelligent) people cannot understand it. This is a deliberate act by the legislators and is intended to confuse the voters. If we could understand what the hell they were doing we'd kick them out pretty quickly. They are making too good and too easy a living to allow us to do that.

Any way, if your Captain Schmidt or whoever, sunk the pirate ship, he might be crucified by your politicians, but he would be revered by ordinary citizens across the planet.

Government opprobium usually equates to public adulation.

I feel sorry for the Captain of your frigate and I am sure he would like to have sunk the pirates as much as we would have liked him to do it. That's no war crime, my friend.

Neville

Neville

How so well do I understand your meaning and of possible wish of our capitain. But, he is under standing orders of commitment as such, must by virtue of his responsibility both legal and by oath, abide by those standing orders. This is both of laws of the sea, and of the high authority of that he must not violate.

If of my rathers, yes, it would be of our procedure of our combat manual of approach of hostile vessel upon the high seas:

For safety of ships crew and ship. The machine gun rake over the oppositional vessel decken to force the crew away from the weapons, to then seek protection of the lower deck. To the commence machine gun fire at water line for sink of oppositional vessel. For as it takes on water, the crew then to evacuate the oppositional vessel for their safety. Then follow of rules of the sea, to take on all survivors and then provide all necessary aid as practical.

The Captain avoided all unnecessary deaths and vessel damage with allowance to escape of enemy vessel.

If perchance the oppositional vessel had pre-empted fire against F212 Karlsruhe, then the Captain would have non-less of response action, but to have ordered salvo fire against the light built vessels with results of complete destruction of both crews and vessels. For this would have been his responsibility as Capitan of a war ship.

This is always the standing danger of use of war ship in International waters for common protection of merchant shipping.


The other complication is we have a very real and present situation of conflict with use of this war ship. It has to do with our constitution as written in year 1949. At present, Chancellor Angela Merkel is very much aware of this. For of clear: Of this law of 1949, clearly and precisely out lines of the following: there is established, strict separation between police and military. For as this is a Police action, then authorization must of first be provided by police authority, before military action may be used.

We of course are speaking of Federal Police. There are armed vessels for such use upon the high seas that are Federal vessels. This was a un-forseen event that was not expected, but should have been anticipated.

It is an internal situation that is of currant of change. But, again, requires re-adjustment of the Basic Law as a foundation of legality. At present, authorization has been founded for military forces to be used domestically {Germany} for events of magnitude of protection of the constitution. In other words, if the riot becomes too much, our forces in the name of protection, are authorized to employ use of Panzer force against a superior force of arms and people.

Karl

[archivist]

Karl,

I understand what you are saying, but I believe the whole world (except politicians and do-gooders) would applaud Karlsruhe if she sank the pirates. Sometimes it takes a hard lesson to teach the bad guys not to do it again. 30 years ago terrorists took the Iranian Embassy in London; the SAS killed all but one (and he was still in jail a couple of months ago). They have never done that again; a hard lesson well learned. This time Karl, the whole civilised world is on your side.

Neville

[karl]

Dec 29, 2008 14:53:03 GMT -7 archivist said:

Karl,

I understand what you are saying, but I believe the whole world (except politicians and do-gooders) would applaud Karlsruhe if she sank the pirates. Sometimes it takes a hard lesson to teach the bad guys not to do it again. 30 years ago terrorists took the Iranian Embassy in London; the SAS killed all but one (and he was still in jail a couple of months ago). They have never done that again; a hard lesson well learned. This time Karl, the whole civilised world is on your side.

Neville

Thank you so of kind Neville

For as I am very so much aware of your country in-as-much of the SAS. For those people of finest training and expertise are simply of outstanding, and this is for sure...

But, we are Germans, and as so, we are condemn in the eyes of our known world as murderers. If not in words,but in the eyes of the looker.

I know as a person, for I will feel the prosecution that is very prevalent. but, I am only one person of many.

Whilst long past of the post war, your military occupation, whilst as my self to look upon in Dänemark, as a little fellow. Your solders treated us with respect, and provided as of best that was to them to give. I have never forgotten that. 'For my self and of my family, were to expect to be shotten to death before then.

In this stead, your military solders provided us with security with your solders over our school and to provide us with our book and school supplies.

For in before whilst with the war, we were with little. I was provided with one rubber, one tablet, one pencil to last for the school year. Our school booken were what little we had, and we shared and savored the book with tattered edges we pasted to make last.

Yes Neville, your people are of a very good people. For with your Englander sense of compassion, you have made a long lasting friend with the most of us, and that is my self.

Thank you for your kindness that is inherent with you and your people.

For as example:

www.mirror.co.uk/news-old/top-stories/2008/02/01/iran-embassy-sas-hero-corporal-robin-horsfall-backs-daily-mirror-medal-campaign-115875-20305264/

Karl

[archivist]

Karl,

Sometimes I get mad. The war was 63 years ago. We are now friends. Your GSG9 trains with our SAS - so they must be good! Turn them loose on the pirates and the terrorists. They WILL have the support of decent people everywhere. Time to forget what happened before I was born - the Germans have always been way up near the top of scientists, engineers, soldiers etc. Even my father believed that. Your people have an important contribution to make, so let them make it or I might just come over there and shoot you myself!

And I'm not fond of shooting my friends!

Neville

[karl]

Dec 30, 2008 10:55:08 GMT -7 archivist said:

Karl,

Sometimes I get mad. The war was 63 years ago. We are now friends. Your GSG9 trains with our SAS - so they must be good! Turn them loose on the pirates and the terrorists. They WILL have the support of decent people everywhere. Time to forget what happened before I was born - the Germans have always been way up near the top of scientists, engineers, soldiers etc. Even my father believed that. Your people have an important contribution to make, so let them make it or I might just come over there and shoot you myself!

And I'm not fond of shooting my friends!

Neville

Neville

I would not wish to be shot rather by a friend or enemy {It hurts!}. I have still fragments of a bullet in my wrist from Kosovo by some sniper idiot. It was of Russian manufacture for they use steel in the stead of lead that we use. Now, the magnetometer scan will buzz up whilst passing by. Those fellows were smart, they used a pre-fielded field of fire, then would shoot through a building partially destroyed as cover for the shooter. And, I was stupid and had walked through. It was winter cold, and only partially hurt, but our medic people checked and found the fragments were small and spread out. The damage would have become more wide spread with search and removal.

In retrospect, I would not wish to once again be shot, and not ever to be shot by a friend

Ooopo, I think perhaps I have neglected of mention of the weapons used by the Karlsruhe against the pirate ships. For there were dispatched by the Capitain, one MK 88A Sea Lynx helicopter with torpedoes, air-to-surface missiles and machine guns. The schnell quick motorboats fled as indicated in Capitain action report as indicated.

One of the situational action problem of machine gun attack of such quck small boats, is the shallow draft associated with light attack boat, this in-turn precludes for the most part, a attack with torpedo, for these weapons to be adjusted for such small draft vessels, the weapon has the tendency to Delphine out of the water on the target run {it is the deep sea trough}, the other situation of difficulty, is with a machine gun attack run, the projectiles that miss, will throw up a water mist screen that partially will provide cover for the enemy vessel. Requiring a repeat circle turn around for a renewed attack run. With the helicopter as a rotary wing aircraft, the pilot has the option of kick about with use of tail rotor whilst flying in revers for continued machine gun attack. It is effective and will in short time destroy most crew members and turn in rapid fashion, a small schnell vessel into junk or a floating mess of splintered wood. It will take of 4-7 second machine gun burst.

There were in this time period, three radio distress call from three different vessels of: One Ethiopian freight vessel, One Egyptian freight vessel and one British Tanker vessel. The action was of short duration, with the various schnell boaten of pirate to flee. It was an adverted action designed for saving of lives.

I think perhaps the future actions of other patrol combat vessels to be stationed in this area, will not the pirates be so fortunate.

For of 8 December currant year {2008} with discretion of the EU, there will be other of several national vessels dispatched to this area.

I think it will be a time before our government has sorted out our problems for a better approach for positive results.

It will be to Franz Josef Jung {Defense Minister} to sort this out for presentation upon the desk of {Chancellor Angela Merkel} for approval before positive action is to be commenced.

Karl

[archivist]

Karl,

You are a true Diplomat!

Neville