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Post by Jaga on Feb 1, 2006 20:33:19 GMT -7
Yesterday the president Bush talked about alternative energy resources and also nuclear power development.
I agree with everything he said in that point - my only problem - he talked about alternative sources also the last time during the speech and nothing happened! So, I hope that this time next year there would be actual progress especially since that the petroleum in the USA (and I believe that also in Poland, Holland, UK etc) is more and more expensive
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piwo
Citizen of the World
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Post by piwo on Feb 1, 2006 20:49:14 GMT -7
Many people believe the president of the United States uses his soapbox to stimulate the people into a course of action. Either you are alone in you belief that what he says is worthwhile, or, there are no alternatives to fossil fuels and we're screwed, or, technology is not at the point where innovative alternatives are available, or nobody really gives a rats rear end as long as they can get fossil fuels for less then 5 or 6 dollars a gallon.  There are many filthy rich people out there, of all political persuasions. Which of my options, if any, seems the most plausible. Or, do you believe it's the big bad, big business that have clandestinely bought all the good ideas, and are smothering the creative fixes for our problem, because big oil rules the world??  |
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Post by Jaga on Feb 1, 2006 20:55:50 GMT -7
Piwo,
I am not sure I understand exactly your point but I hope that there is at least one positive if the gas would cost 5-6 dollars a gallon - we will have to develop here in America more public transportation systems!
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Bob S
European
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Post by Bob S on Feb 1, 2006 22:49:54 GMT -7
;D I have another idea: We should convert all that "hot-air" in DC and the rest of the capitols of all the nations to energy. The whole world would not run out of energy for a long, long, long time. LOL ;D
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Post by Jaga on Feb 1, 2006 22:57:12 GMT -7
;D I have another idea: We should convert all that "hot-air" in DC and the rest of the capitols of all the nations to energy. The whole world would not run out of energy for a long, long, long time. LOL ;D Bob, what abour running cars of methanol, ethanol and other vodkas?  |
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Post by suzanne on Feb 2, 2006 8:13:42 GMT -7
There's an article in USA Today about ethanol: www.usatoday.com/money/industries/technology/2006-02-01-ethanol_x.htmThe article is rather negative about the prospect of this ever becoming a common fuel, but if gas prices get high enough (and eventually, I'm sure they will), things like this will have to become more common. Do any of you know if ethanol has as much of an environmental impact as gasoline? I'm curious about that. |
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Post by bescheid on Feb 2, 2006 9:36:57 GMT -7
Suzanne It would so seem that with any rise in energy prices, so goes the talk of alternative fuel sources. Petroleum as used as energy has fairly been a standard in thought and practice. Just drill and pump. But, as volume needs increase, so goes the increasing difficulty of providing the market place with suitable volume of petrol supplies and the increasingly risk of obtaining it through the normal locations of production. Ethanol has been in use in the Pacific Northwest for some time now. Marketed through the BP stations as 10% mix. Primely for emissions purposes. The price is still the same (very high) and it makes no notable difference in motor performance in my wifes Toyota. Volkswagen spells it out in the owners manual of my Jetta as it is ok, but, no more the a %10 mix with gasoline. What I have noticed with my Jetta with using the BP/ethanol/gasoline mix, is, motor performance rises, but, fuel consumption drops. Not sure the reason, suspect it may be with the oxygen sensor reacting with the small amount of ethanol mix and relaying to the computer to increase fuel to the cylinders. The motor is equipped with a knock sensor so it will not knock (ping) on lower grades of petrol. I am not sure why, but diesel passenger vehicles are not popular in our area. The fuel (diesel) is priced at the same amount as regular gasoline at the pump, but the diesel fuel economy is vastly much better. www.renewingindia.org/newsletters/resource/past/vol14/res_oct_15_02.htmThought perhaps the above url might be of interest. An oil seed plant called rape (plant) has been widely grown in Germany for oil pressing as fuel and other applications for many years. This only as an example of application that is success full and tried. Charles |
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Post by suzanne on Feb 2, 2006 10:42:23 GMT -7
Hi Charles,
Thanks for the link re: rapeseed oil production. I'd say most of the gas stations around here have at least one diesel pump, but I've never seen ethanol.
These biofuels will grow in popularity as gas gets more expensive and as petroleum gets harder to find and extract.
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Bob S
European
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Post by Bob S on Feb 2, 2006 15:57:36 GMT -7
;D I have another idea: We should convert all that "hot-air" in DC and the rest of the capitols of all the nations to energy. The whole world would not run out of energy for a long, long, long time. LOL ;D Bob, what abour running cars of methanol, ethanol and other vodkas? ;DLOL Jaga. Every day we hear reports in the news media: "the SUV did this", or "the SUV did that"; "the car did this" or " the car did that", "the truck did this" or "the truck did that". Wow! isnt't it amazing that all those vehicles did that without the help of a driver because a driver is never mentioned. Well, if we can attribute human characteristics to a motor vehicle then we should offer them a little booze too. Why is it that a driver is allowed to enjoy a little drink and the vehicle is not? LOL ;D PS it takes more energy to produce Ethanol than is saved by using it. IE Ethanol can be easily made but, there is no savings or profit except to the Farm Lobby. |
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Post by sciwriter on Feb 2, 2006 22:40:28 GMT -7
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piwo
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Post by piwo on Feb 3, 2006 17:16:53 GMT -7
Piwo, I am not sure I understand exactly your point but I hope that there is at least one positive if the gas would cost 5-6 dollars a gallon - we will have to develop here in America more public transportation systems! It was part joke, part serious. Many conspiracy theorists believe that unbelievably efficient forms of alternate fuels have been developed, but bought out by the oil companies and stowed away in deep vaults. Big business at it's finest! And yes, I think it will take much higher fuel costs to get people serious into sinking cash into alternatives. Or maybe, we're just not there with the technology yet. I hope I"m wrong.  |
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Post by Jaga on Feb 6, 2006 13:13:33 GMT -7
Susanne, Carl interesting article. Finally I learnt a little bit how this ethanol fuel works. I remember seeing some buses in Romania who had terrible petroleum deficit (teh exported all they had). These buses had pipe on the top and this did not look safe for me at all. Carl, I also start believing in Tesla fuel after many years of doubts By the way, I guess, I mentioned somewhere else that Canada has huge resources of oil sand bitumen. The deposits of oil there are much bigger than the total estimated oil in Saudi Arabia. The majority of these deposits are in the central North Canada. Here is more about it: www.capp.ca/default.asp?V_DOC_ID=688 |
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Post by Jaga on Feb 6, 2006 13:16:32 GMT -7
Here is more about it:
The deposits of tar-like bitumen in central and northern Alberta are among the world's largest petroleum resources. However, the viscous substance is too thick to flow through rocks, wellbores and pipelines. Many technological and economic challenges have to be overcome in order to produce and transport bitumen and to process it into desirable products such as gasoline and diesel fuel.
Mineable bitumen deposits are located near the surface and can be recovered by open-pit mining techniques. New methods introduced in the 1990s considerably improved the efficiency and reduced cost. This led to multibillion-dollar expansions of the existing projects - which already accounted for about one-sixth of Canada's oil output in 1997 - plus proposals for additional mining projects.
The new systems use hydraulic and electrically powered shovels to scoop up the oil sand and load it into enormous trucks which can carry up to 320 tonnes at a time. In the plant, a hot water process completes the separation of the bitumen from sand, water and minerals.
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Bob S
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Post by Bob S on Feb 6, 2006 19:26:40 GMT -7
 If I am not mistaken and perhaps Leslie could add his own info: During WW2 England had a dire shortage of petrol but the English improvised and used Methane gas to power their motor vehicles. You could tell which vehicles were using methane gas because they had large bags on the tops of their automobiles. The bags were used to collect pig droppings from which was derived the methane gas. It won't be big government that develops alternate fuel but it will be some ordinary person working in their garage who will. After developing the alternate fuel the ordinary person will become filthy rich and all Liberals will despise the person. LOL
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If I am not mistaken and perhaps Leslie could add his own info: During WW2 England had a dire shortage of petrol but the English improvised and used Methane gas to power their motor vehicles. You could tell which vehicles were using methane gas because they had large bags on the tops of their automobiles. The bags were used to collect pig droppings from which was derived the methane gas.