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Post by karl on Jan 6, 2009 13:06:48 GMT -7
Some may ask: for what has this to do with Polish, my sincere answer is: Nothing.
For of some time from past to present, this man has been the ideal of my self.
But, as a person, it is with honour or presentation of this man, for why of? I know only that of his strength in leadership, his strength of courage to lead a nation that was to ultimately lead to the demise of my country. To be as of honour.
For in this, might I present of the honour of a man of many lives, that of Mr. Churchill.
For as of us of the Teutonic, we give much honour to our dead, but above our dead, we give much honour to our fallen foe. For they have faut with strength, and they fought us to the death,for they are of honour.
Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965)
Sir Winston Churchill Churchill was a politician and wartime prime minister who led Britain to victory in World War Two.
Winston Leonard Spencer Churchill was born on 30 November 1874 at Blenheim Palace in Oxfordshire. His father was the prominent Tory politician, Lord Randolph Churchill. Churchill attended the Royal Military College, Sandhurst, before embarking on an army career. He saw action on the North West Frontier of India and in the Sudan. While working as a journalist during the Boer War he was captured and made a prisoner-of-war before escaping.
In 1900, Churchill became Conservative member of parliament for Oldham. But he became disaffected with his party and in 1904 joined the Liberal Party. When the Liberals won the 1905 election, Churchill was appointed undersecretary at the Colonial Office. In 1908 he entered the Cabinet as president of the Board of Trade, becoming home secretary in 1910. The following year he became first lord of the Admiralty. He held this post in the first months of World War One but after the disastrous Dardanelles expedition, for which he was blamed, he resigned. He joined the army, serving for a time on the Western Front. In 1917, he was back in government as minister of munitions. From 1919 to 1921 he was secretary of state for war and air, and from 1924-1929 was chancellor of the exchequer.
The next decade were his 'wilderness years', in which his opposition to Indian self-rule and his support for Edward VIII during the 'Abdication Crisis' made him unpopular, while his warnings about the rise of Nazi Germany and the need for British rearmament were ignored. When war broke out in 1939, Churchill became first lord of the Admiralty. In May 1940, Neville Chamberlain resigned as prime minister and Churchill took his place. His refusal to surrender to Nazi Germany inspired the country. He worked tirelessly throughout the war, building strong relations with US President Roosevelt while maintaining a sometimes difficult alliance with the Soviet Union.
Churchill lost power in the 1945 post-war election but remained leader of the opposition, voicing apprehensions about the Cold War (he popularised the term 'Iron Curtain') and encouraging European and trans-Atlantic unity. In 1951, he became prime minister again. He resigned in 1955, but remained an MP until shortly before his death. As well as his many political achievements, he left a legacy of an impressive number of publications and in 1953 won the Nobel Prize for Literature.
Churchill died on 24 January 1965 and was given a state funeral.
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Post by archivist on Jan 6, 2009 15:59:58 GMT -7
Karl,
That's a very good potted history and, from the British point of view, he was a very great man. Unfortunately you missed out the bit about how he and Roosevelt (another great man) betrayed the Poles at the end of the War. His motives were good - he hoped to placate Stalin and prevent further conflict. The obvious next step was for the Allies to turn on Russia as another totalitarian power. However, all he achieved was to create a 40 year cold war. Meanwhile, the Poles were the only real victims. During the Battle of Britain 303 Squadron was the highest scoring fighter squadron of them all and laid ownership to the highest scoring individual pilot. Even Stalin could not object to these men taking part in the Victory Parade. However they refused to take part because the rest of their countrymen were excluded. This was the greatest shame of Churchill, Roosevelt, Britain and the United States.
Neville
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Post by karl on Jan 6, 2009 17:06:18 GMT -7
Karl, That's a very good potted history and, from the British point of view, he was a very great man. Unfortunately you missed out the bit about how he and Roosevelt (another great man) betrayed the Poles at the end of the War. His motives were good - he hoped to placate Stalin and prevent further conflict. The obvious next step was for the Allies to turn on Russia as another totalitarian power. However, all he achieved was to create a 40 year cold war. Meanwhile, the Poles were the only real victims. During the Battle of Britain 303 Squadron was the highest scoring fighter squadron of them all and laid ownership to the highest scoring individual pilot. Even Stalin could not object to these men taking part in the Victory Parade. However they refused to take part because the rest of their countrymen were excluded. This was the greatest shame of Churchill, Roosevelt, Britain and the United States. Neville I have no answer Neville on this. For the writers of history are the keeper of this secret. It is of valuer that the Poles fought very well with great risk to them selves of life. I have no idea as to for why the remainder of the Polish fighting men were not allowed to enter in the Victory Parade. For those responsible, are now no longer living. I think though, a very much more should be given credit to, and that is the people that made all this possible, and that is the British People. For with out the support of the British public, the leadership of Winston Churchill would not have been possible. Those were perilous times, it would have not taken much to have in-self, created a very bad disaster, for as of the Atlantic, your country was fully involved in the Pacific war with the Japanese. For of survival, it was the few for the many to make these sacrifices so the many might live. Of the event of Invasion of your Island, of present knowledge, it was not to occur. For in this stead, your country become the staging area for the vast assembly of American war might, for the invasion of Europe. History is then to be what it is. I do believe it is the work and leadership of the man in charge as of Winston Churchill that provided the leadership style and inspiration that was needed at that time. For this, he was to provide to the British people, hope. Hope, courage and the will to win. For if a people truly believe they will win, then for the most part, this will be true. With out Winston Churchill, then what would have Mr. Roosevelt have done? For only that of Mr. Stalin would have then been his work mate. As it was in short time, it would have been Mr.Truman to carry on. Karl |
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Post by kaima on Jan 6, 2009 18:23:27 GMT -7
The obvious next step was for the Allies to turn on Russia as another totalitarian power. However, all he achieved was to create a 40 year cold war. Neville, I must ask, what could England and the US have done, gone to war with the Soviet Union? My imagination is too limited to see any alternatives that would have led to a different result, other than to insist that all three armies occupy everything from Poland on south and west, so the Russian troop concentration would have been diluted. Such a solution - taking Russian & NATO troops to occupy former Yugoslavia as it broke up - should have prevented the bloody wars and slaughters that followed in the 1990's. East Prussia could have become a Jewish homeland under the protection of the USSR with perpetual sea access granted to the USSR as their payment for their protection. This might have reduced the pressure to move to Palestine and found Israel at the expense of the Arabs. OK, so that is as far as my imagination goes in alternate histories. Otherwise I see little way of keeping Poland protected by the USSR at that time. However, all he achieved was to create a 40 year cold war. Meanwhile, the Poles were the only real victims. Ahhh, again, I feel all that became the Eastern Block were real victims. It cost my parent's generation and mine the normal contact with overseas families. Kai |
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Post by archivist on Jan 7, 2009 11:17:37 GMT -7
OK, Kaima, I accept that all Eastern Bloc countries were the victims, but the Poles lost everything they had fought for. And yes, I believe that if the West had turned on Russia, the Cold War would never have happened, the Eastern Bloc would have kept their freedom and Russia would have lost nothing but the great power they assumed at the end of the war. The truth is that the west could not afford an extension to the war - even if its only result was to push Russia back beyond its own borders. Besides, after 6 years, we had lost the stomach for more fighting. Still, if it had happened, I believe the world would have been a happier place 40 years earlier.
Neville
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Post by karl on Jan 7, 2009 12:52:26 GMT -7
OK, Kaima, I accept that all Eastern Bloc countries were the victims, but the Poles lost everything they had fought for. And yes, I believe that if the West had turned on Russia, the Cold War would never have happened, the Eastern Bloc would have kept their freedom and Russia would have lost nothing but the great power they assumed at the end of the war. The truth is that the west could not afford an extension to the war - even if its only result was to push Russia back beyond its own borders. Besides, after 6 years, we had lost the stomach for more fighting. Still, if it had happened, I believe the world would have been a happier place 40 years earlier. Neville Neville I understand and sympathize with you, for you are only attempting to to justify the Polish plight of their own making. For this, a failure of that I am responsible of. For this, I am so very sorry.. It was of my own vain hope, that the Polish Nationals that make up the contention of this forum, would have comest forth, and make their presence known. And, as would of normal course of events, expounded and make known of them selves as full support to you. But, you now see, it is only that of a German national, your self, and Kai. For where is the others of Polish??? Have they all but disappeared? If so, then where is their voice? It would stand to the present, that your self as the Brit, Kai as the Alaskan {Czech}, my self as the only currant German, are only that to represent of Poland? Now, what is this?  www.polishsquadronsremembered.com/Victory_parade.htmlOk, since I am the responsible person of to bring to light this. It then is to my responsibility, in light of the silence that is out standing, of Mr. Churchill. It was of Mr. Churchill as of comments he has expressed in contempt as I have just forwarded in non-response. {If you dont want to come here and you are here, you dont want to go there {Poland}, The Hell With You!} www.polishsquadronsremembered.com/Victory_parade.html{ I would tend to believe the above will bring of response from the Poles}. Polish volunteers were not of only to join up as volunteers for British Fleet Arm, for the British Domain included that of all included that of exiles from the nations of Europe. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-British_personnel_in_the_RAF_during_the_Battle_of_BritainIn short, this was an emergency of U of K. It was all hands to their battle stations, for the ship is to go down with all hands unless you conduct your jobs correctly. Or, am I incorrect? for I do enjoy to be incorrect, for with our mistake, there is no learning.. Karl |
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Post by archivist on Jan 7, 2009 14:40:39 GMT -7
No Karl, you are correct but the Poles who came here were real men and did not know how to give up. You are also right in the respect that I have had a poor response from the Poles. However, I retain the hope thatsome Pole or person of Polish origin will e able to help me. Maybe they just don't read tis forum.
Neville
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Post by karl on Jan 9, 2009 12:34:06 GMT -7
No Karl, you are correct but the Poles who came here were real men and did not know how to give up. You are also right in the respect that I have had a poor response from the Poles. However, I retain the hope thatsome Pole or person of Polish origin will e able to help me. Maybe they just don't read tis forum. Neville Neville You are so correct with your analysis, but then, where are the Poles? Are they so invisible as to be non? Or, is it to us as Germans and Brits to speak for them? Well, not much has changed, for exception of the date upon the calender I would so suppose. Karl |
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Post by archivist on Jan 9, 2009 14:49:21 GMT -7
Karl,
I have read the links you gave (many times) and I know that Churchill refused the Poles entry to the Victory Parade only to placate Stalin. He knew we could not afford an extended war with Russia (even with American backing) and he was doing his best for the British people. Sadly, that was devastating to the Poles.
When I first began to post on 304 Squadron, even Jaga said she knew nothing about this Squadron. Bombers do not attract the glamour that fighters do, and it is arguable that they take greater risks because their defences are poor against fighters. Just maybe the Poles have an equal lack of knowledge of events that happened 70 years ago. Maybe they want to forget. Consider also that you and I have deliberately researched the subject; average citizens of any country are naturally less well informed. We have to understand the position of the Poles - they look forwards not backwards. Maybe we are just a couple of old dinosaurs!
Finally, I believe that Churchill was the greatest Brit ever to live - but I can't expect the Poles to share that view.
Neville
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