100 ways America is screwing up the world

[Jaga]

from the book about the same title:

www.johntirman.com/The%20List.html

The List


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 Altering the Earth: Virtually all scientists are not likely to be mistaken
2 Television: A surprising entry for number 2, and not for the reasons you'd think
3 The Cold War: 45 years of waste and danger (and many bad novels), with nasty, abiding effects
4 Dumping Toxins: where do all the poisons go? . . . to the rest of the world, of course
5 Market Mantra: The Tragic Failure of Neoliberalism: out of sight, out of mind
6 Blood for Oil: yes, that's what it is, and that's what it's always been
7 Agribusiness: it's more than Fruit Loops and mountains of rotting corn
8 The Reagan Doctrine: the most destructive "doctrine" ever---think "Taliban," contras, Savimbi
9 The War in Vietnam: millions dead, another war built on lies and "patriotism"
10 The Waltons Go Global: after reading this, you'll switch to Costco
11 Gilded Democracy: Tom DeLay and his cronies are only the tip of the iceberg
12 Nourishing the Seeds of Islamic Militancy: yes, sadly, we are implicated in this, too
13 Spreading the Word: and you think Scientology is loony---read this
14 Petroleum Dependency: "Record heat worldwide in 2006".....to die for, eh?
15 American Dream: no, it's not for everyone
16 The ABCs of HIV/AIDS: How Not to Stop an Epidemic: punishment for the wicked?
17 Reaganism: after this book, no one with any integrity can call himself a "Reagan Republican"
18 Nuclear Weapons: now we're selling to India and closing our eyes to Pakistan
19 Genocide: acknowledging only those that suit us---which does not, needless to say, include our own
20-27 Rogues Gallery of Dictators: Pinochet, the Argentine Generals, Mubarak, Pol Pot, Suharto, Mohammed Zia Ul-Haq Mobuto Sese Seko, Saddam Hussein: a sampler
28 SUVs: dangerous, gas-guzzling, ugly, clumsy, anti-social...hey, what's not to like?
29 War on Terrorism: phony, ill-conceived, poorly managed, but very, very convenient
30-35 Six interventions: Guatemala 1954, Dominican Republic 1965, Grenada 1983, Panama 1989, Iraq 1991, Somalia, 1992: and so many to choose from
36 Big Pharma: choosing sexual dysfunction over malaria, HIV, etc. Vioxx anyone?
37 The Weapons Habit: selling our best technology to bad actors all over the world
38 Demise of Public Health: a tragedy of vast consequences, and no joking matter
39 Covert Action: the CIA has not actually gotten much right for all our billions
40 Billary: yes, the couple of the century, but not for me
41 Defense Contractors: no problema with Reagan or "W" in these quarters
42 “We don’t do body counts”: others do, however, and it's not looking good
43 Getting High: the drug war is an addiction
44 Torture: try thinking of something effective instead of sheer revenge
45 Consumerism: the Devil wears more than Prada

...
more:
www.johntirman.com/The%20List.html

[pieter]

From the same source;

I N S I G H T

September 23 , 2006


“Muslim Rage”: A Problem, Not a War

We are now witnessing the reckless inflation of a relatively minor problem of global politics—the anger and infrequent violence associated with Muslim extremists—into the clash of civilizations, World War IV, and who-knows-what-other “twilight struggle” metaphor. Political violence against the industrialized Western democracies is a pesky, if serious, matter. But to raise it into such a dramatic confrontation is a mistake. Let me explain why.

In the crudest terms, if one were to add up all the fatalities from this political violence—terrorism—it amounts to a few thousand dead. This total, certainly sad for the victims’ families, is nonetheless far fewer than the toll of the Kurdish rebellion in Turkey (40,000 dead since 1980) or the pogroms against indigenous peoples in Guatemala in the 1980s and ‘90s (150,000 or more), both of which involved allies of the United States who were committing gross human-rights violations and never earned rebuke or punishment. It pales before the three million killed in Congo in recent years or the killing fields of the Sudan today, neither of which raises much concern in Washington.

Some who fashion themselves realists would say these conflicts don’t threaten the United States and are thereby uninteresting.

[pieter]

Apply double standards

Everybody was concerned about former Yugoslavia, Afghanistan and Iraq,
but the international community did nothing against the genocide in Ruanda,
the masscacres in Mozambique, Liberia, Siera Leone, Congo, and the present
genocide in Sudan. Nor did it stop the genocides in Asian countries, Cambodja,
Birma, Indonesia (Papua part, Mollucan islands), because these countries were
not Caucacian like Yugoslavia or did not have oil like Iraq.
The Western government also did not establish economical sanctions against
African dictatorships, totalitarian and militairy regimes.
Why, because the Western companies, businessworld, NGO's and governments
earn money form arms trade, smuggle of luxurious goods, illegal woodcut,
raw materials, minerals (diamands, gold, uranium, platinum, and etc.) and oil.
Europe (France, Belgium, GB, the Netherlands, Italy, Germany and etc.),
America, Israël and China are competitors in the struggle for minerals, arms trade,
infrastructural deals, diamond and gold trade, uranium and etc.
I forgot that Lebanese and Indian merchants are active in every African capital
and city. They often form the Middle class there. I have no judgement about that,
I just say that that is a fact. China is the fastest growing influential power in
Africa. It practically built Angola's infrastructure in the recent years.
China does not ask ethical questions about political freedom, the state of once
democracy or human rights. And therefor it is easier for China to enter the
African market. Ofcourse many Western countries cooperate with African
dictatorships without it being mentioned in the open. It's all about business.
Africa does not interest our political leaders, because it is a black continent.
The so called foreign aid does not help anything, and is only benefitial for
Western NGO's, which are commercial firms.
Fair trade does not exsist, because of the European and American protection
of their own markets, via import taxes and subsidies for it's own agriculture
and other sectors. Development countries are not forced to develop their
own economies, internal markets, due to the Western foreign aid.

Pieter

[kaima]

Pieter,

I think you have a better grip oon it than the original author who chose to blame everything on the US alone. Your presentation is more balanced and realistic. I am sorry to say I agree with you at the sad state of affairs.

Kai

[pieter]

admin said:

from the book about the same title:

www.johntirman.com/The%20List.html

The List


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 Altering the Earth: Virtually all scientists are not likely to be mistaken
2 Television: A surprising entry for number 2, and not for the reasons you'd think
3 The Cold War: 45 years of waste and danger (and many bad novels), with nasty, abiding effects
4 Dumping Toxins: where do all the poisons go? . . . to the rest of the world, of course
5 Market Mantra: The Tragic Failure of Neoliberalism: out of sight, out of mind
6 Blood for Oil: yes, that's what it is, and that's what it's always been
7 Agribusiness: it's more than Fruit Loops and mountains of rotting corn
8 The Reagan Doctrine: the most destructive "doctrine" ever---think "Taliban," contras, Savimbi
9 The War in Vietnam: millions dead, another war built on lies and "patriotism"
10 The Waltons Go Global: after reading this, you'll switch to Costco
11 Gilded Democracy: Tom DeLay and his cronies are only the tip of the iceberg
12 Nourishing the Seeds of Islamic Militancy: yes, sadly, we are implicated in this, too
13 Spreading the Word: and you think Scientology is loony---read this
14 Petroleum Dependency: "Record heat worldwide in 2006".....to die for, eh?
15 American Dream: no, it's not for everyone
16 The ABCs of HIV/AIDS: How Not to Stop an Epidemic: punishment for the wicked?
17 Reaganism: after this book, no one with any integrity can call himself a "Reagan Republican"
18 Nuclear Weapons: now we're selling to India and closing our eyes to Pakistan
19 Genocide: acknowledging only those that suit us---which does not, needless to say, include our own
20-27 Rogues Gallery of Dictators: Pinochet, the Argentine Generals, Mubarak, Pol Pot, Suharto, Mohammed Zia Ul-Haq Mobuto Sese Seko, Saddam Hussein: a sampler
28 SUVs: dangerous, gas-guzzling, ugly, clumsy, anti-social...hey, what's not to like?
29 War on Terrorism: phony, ill-conceived, poorly managed, but very, very convenient
30-35 Six interventions: Guatemala 1954, Dominican Republic 1965, Grenada 1983, Panama 1989, Iraq 1991, Somalia, 1992: and so many to choose from
36 Big Pharma: choosing sexual dysfunction over malaria, HIV, etc. Vioxx anyone?
37 The Weapons Habit: selling our best technology to bad actors all over the world
38 Demise of Public Health: a tragedy of vast consequences, and no joking matter
39 Covert Action: the CIA has not actually gotten much right for all our billions
40 Billary: yes, the couple of the century, but not for me
41 Defense Contractors: no problema with Reagan or "W" in these quarters
42 “We don’t do body counts”: others do, however, and it's not looking good
43 Getting High: the drug war is an addiction
44 Torture: try thinking of something effective instead of sheer revenge
45 Consumerism: the Devil wears more than Prada

...
more:
www.johntirman.com/The%20List.html

And 45 ways Russia is screwing the world

The List


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 Altering the Earth: Virtually all scientists are not likely to be mistaken
2 Television: Crack down of critical chanals
3 The Cold War: 45 years of waste and danger (and many bad novels), with nasty, abiding effects. Sovjet versions of Rambo and other US patriotic movies.
4 Dumping Toxins: where do all the poisons go? . . . to the ural and the rest of the world, of course
5 Market Mantra: Beef stake Capitalism mixed with guided state Capitalism.
(radical market-oriented reform along the lines of "shock therapy" under Yeltsin.)
6 Controversial privatizations for the small sum of $US 600 million, far less than they were worth, creating a small class of super rich (the Olicharchs), while the majority of population plunged into poverty.
7 On September 21, 1993, Yeltsin disbanded the Supreme Soviet and the Congress of People's Deputies by decree, which was illegal under the constitution.
(I see the dismantlement of the Sovjet-Union as a disaster, form an economical, securaty, and geopolitical ballance point of view. I disliked the fact that one superpower
remained. Better a weak, but democratic Sovjet-Union than, the chaos of the present
CIS, with the ongoing Caucacus crisis. Better would have been to replace the Sovjet Union, by an new alliance in the same structure).
8 Warcrimes and other violations of human rights in Chechnya (systematic destruction
of Chechen villages, burning Chechens alive -children, women and elder people-).
8 The existance of Stalinism, Sovjetnostalgia and revisionism.
9 The Cuban Missile Crisis (1962)
10 The Soviet war in Afghanistan (1979-1989)
11 Support for Moammar al-Qadhafi's Lybia, by delivering MiG-25 airplanes in 1979.
12 Brezhnev Doctrine ( "When forces that are hostile to socialism try to turn the development of some socialist country towards capitalism, it becomes not only a problem of the country concerned, but a common problem and concern of all socialist countries.")
13 Guided Democracy: President Putin policies raised serious concerns about civil society and human rights in Russia
14 Warm contacts with Hamas, Hezbollah, Syria and Teheran.
15 Pan-Slavian Russicism; Orthodox Slavic militancy (close ties with Serbians in the Yugoslavian crisis/war).
16 Putting pressure on Europe via gass blackmail (disrupting the energy market,
with unreasonable demands).
17 Russian Dream: no, it's not for everyone (for ethnic Russians only)
18 The ABCs of HIV/AIDS: How Not to Stop an Epidemic: punishment for the wicked?
19 Marxism-Leninism: after "The Captial" , "Communist Manifest" and Lenins and Stalins teachings and practices, no one with any integrity can call himself a ; Communist or Sovjet patriot;
20 Nuclear Weapons and technology: now they are selling to India, China, Syria, Iran, and etc.
21 Creating unrest in the Region: Chechnya, and supporting insergants in Georgia and Moldavia.
22 Rogues Gallery of Dictators: Nassr (Egypt), Assad senior (Syria), the Central- and Eastern-European leaders (Jaruzelski), Mubarak, Saddam Hussein, Castro and Chavez.
28 SUVs: dangerous, gas-guzzling, ugly, clumsy, anti-social...hey, what's not to like?
29 War on Terrorism: phony, ill-conceived, poorly managed, but very, very convenient
30 Interventions: DDR (June 1953 in East Berlin), Poznan & Budapest 1956, Prague 1968, Panama 1989, Lithuania 1991, Georgia, ninetees, Chechnya (1994 to 1996 in the First Chechen war, and the Second in 1999)
36 Big Pharma: choosing sexual dysfunction over malaria, HIV, etc. Vioxx anyone?
37 The Weapons Habit: selling their best technology to bad actors all over the world
38 Demise of Public Health: a tragedy of vast consequences, and no joking matter
39 Covert Action: the KGB/FSB has not actually gotten much right for all the billions
of the Russian people (ofcourse under ex-KGB member Putin, you can not think of cut backs in the Secret services)
40 Billary: yes, the couple of the century, but not for many
41 Defense Contractors: no problema with Putin and the Yeltsin family and Olicharchs.
42 “We don’t do body counts”: others do, however, and it's not looking good
(already practice for centuries, because it's honourable to die for Mother Russia,
and an individual human life is not that important. The Collective is important)
43 Getting High: the drug war is an addiction (Heroin is a problem in Russia and former Sovjet republics)
44 Torture: try thinking of something effective instead of sheer revenge
45 Consumerism: the Devil wears more than Prada (Moscow wears Gucci, D&C,
Vercace, Armani, Chanel and aned Donna Karan)

[Bob S]

;D LOL Jaga. Your ploy and plot are uncovered. People who visit this forum may be outraged at you and what was said ;D.
However, you where just quoting from a book by someone else and these are not your words or what you think. The same outrage was expressed by Moslems toward the Pope when he just quoted what was said by an emperor many centuries ago. ;D

[pieter]

Russian maffia

I forget to mention the influence and problems the world haswith Russian organised crime (maffia) in Europe (especially Germany, but also the Netherlands, Poland, Belgium, France, Czech republic, Hunagry and Spain), America, Israël, and even South-Africa (Cape Town, and other cities). These Russians have links with the Turkish organised crime, Italian maffia, Columbian drug cartels and etc.

Pieter

"Blending financial sophistication with bone-crunching violence, the Russian mob has become the FBI's most formidable criminal adversary, creating an international criminal colossus that has surpassed the Colombian cartels, the Japanese Yakuzas, the Chinese triads, and the Italian Mafia in wealth and weaponry."
-- *Robert I. Friedman (Red Mafiya)

* * * * *

"The Russian mafia will become a major problem around the world. They will infiltrate any profitable market and are ruthless criminals. They have set up major operations in New York, California, and Florida. Russian émigrés provide them with a vulnerable community to exploit and gain a foothold. Then they expand. Only a strong and diligent government can control their spread."
-- Stanislav Lunev
Russia's highest-ranking military defector


I read Robert I. Friedman's book Red Maffia in 2001.

[bescheid]

Perhaps this would be the time for a silence upon my part, but a blabber mouth must act the part.

In as much as to many, the above is a disaster of ecological proportions. But, if viewed as a natural event, not so much so.

Nature developed each version of life and then refined that life to compete and strengthen through conflict and rigors of survival. Then only to a point beyond what was bearable then erased that life run with a disaster, then returned for a lesser life to have the chance to evolve.

Perhaps as a suggestion: We as beings, have the ability to understand that of our weaknesses and also beyond that, understand and know, that we are mortal and will die at the end of our life run. The majority of animal life, do not have that ability, perhaps they are fortunate.

With the above, it would so seem, what we are observing around us, is a realignment of a social stratum that is more or less, global in scale. The stronger having arrived first to their plane of higher industrial capacity, will each in turn reach a point of failure. And as such, will weaken in competition of resources and structural integrity, allowing the lesser social structure to evolve.

Man {as a species} possesses a very strong will to survive and over come the environment. The innate ability to do so, carries with it, the self destruction ability {aggressiveness}. Man will survive the elements and will adapt and overcome. The one enemy that man kind has not the ability to overcome, is him self.

The best I have to offer is this as what I early learnt as a child, how ever, and for what ever. {It always pays to be on the winning side}

Just a thought

Charles

[Jaga]

kaima said:

Pieter,

I think you have a better grip oon it than the original author who chose to blame everything on the US alone. Your presentation is more balanced and realistic. I am sorry to say I agree with you at the sad state of affairs.

Kai

Kai, Pieter

I heard the author of this book speaking in C-SPan and he makes quite a lot of sense. He had some deep reasoning behind some of his points, he also included the ten points America influence the world positively.

I do not agree with all his points - like the nonsense of the nuclear power etc

[constantine]

And 45 ways Russia is screwing the world

9 The Cuban Missile Crisis (1962)

And is it so terrible that Soviet Union supported Fidel, on the other hand US was a master of more disgusting regime - Battista?
---------------------------------------------------
10 The Soviet war in Afghanistan (1979-1989)

Yes, it was our mistake, and we completely paid for it.
---------------------------------------------------
13 Guided Democracy: President Putin policies raised serious concerns about civil society and human rights in Russia

It is absolutely what we need for this period of our history, and the most interestly that this policy is realized only on short period of time.
-----------------------------------------------------
15 Pan-Slavian Russicism; Orthodox Slavic militancy (close ties with Serbians in the Yugoslavian crisis/war).

All Russians like Serbs and we will support them in any situation. As fo Orthodox Slavic militancy, we never proselitated any nation in Orthodoxy under compulsion.
------------------------------------------------------
16 Putting pressure on Europe via gass blackmail (disrupting the energy market,
with unreasonable demands).

Can you cite an instance, that Russians forced anybody to buy gas and oil? We just need money to invest our economy, now we have a good opportunity thanks to higher prices on this matirials.
It's just a business, we have oil&gas and Europeans don't have them, if you don't like Russian commodities you can find somebody whose goods are cheap and have a good quality.

---------------------------------------------------
17 Russian Dream: no, it's not for everyone (for ethnic Russians only)

Oh! Finally i see this assertion, that Russia is a prison of nations! For example, I don't know any nation that was destroyied under Russian protectorate, do you have? Even though we did some wrongs in the past, we always corrected it after all. For example,
the return of Chechens and Tatars from the exile.
------------------------------------------------------
42 “We don’t do body counts”: others do, however, and it's not looking good
(already practice for centuries, because it's honourable to die for Mother Russia,
and an individual human life is not that important. The Collective is important)

Yes we had a period of our history when an individual interests prevailed over all-national and the state was desintegrated and we fallen under Mongol yoke over than 200 years! I think that Poland for example has an analogous situation.

[pieter]

And 45 ways Russia is screwing the world

9 The Cuban Missile Crisis (1962)

And is it so terrible that Soviet Union supported Fidel, on the other hand US was a master of more disgusting regime - Battista?

I don't see what is good about replacing one (fascist) Nationalist totalitarian
leader by another (Communist) Nationalist one.
Castro was first of all a Cuban nationalist, later unde the influence of Che Geuvara
he became a Cuban communist.
---------------------------------------------------

10 The Soviet war in Afghanistan (1979-1989)

Yes, it was our mistake, and we completely paid for it.

No we will pay for it!

---------------------------------------------------

13 Guided Democracy: President Putin policies raised serious concerns about civil society and human rights in Russia

It is absolutely what we need for this period of our history, and the most interestly that this policy is realized only on short period of time.

Do you mean that the Russian federation needs a Russian version of Sanacja?
( jagahost.proboards79.com/index.cgi?board=philosophy&action=display&thread=1157568312 )

-----------------------------------------------------

15 Pan-Slavian Russicism; Orthodox Slavic militancy (close ties with Serbians in the Yugoslavian crisis/war).

All Russians like Serbs and we will support them in any situation. As fo Orthodox Slavic militancy, we never proselitated any nation in Orthodoxy under compulsion.

In the 19th century Tzarist Russia wanted to Russificate the Russian part of partitioned
Poland. There is a genuine fear for Russian imperialism under Central- and Eastern Europeans and Georgians. In Europe for one century the Russians were seen as the great fear, The Eurasian wild hordes from the east, The Bolsjewist mongolians.
This image did not die after the defeat of Nazism or fascism in Europe, it was and probably stil is deeply rooted in the hearts and minds of many older Europeans.

------------------------------------------------------

16 Putting pressure on Europe via gass blackmail (disrupting the energy market,
with unreasonable demands).

Can you cite an instance, that Russians forced anybody to buy gas and oil? We just need money to invest our economy, now we have a good opportunity thanks to higher prices on this matirials.
It's just a business, we have oil&gas and Europeans don't have them, if you don't like Russian commodities you can find somebody whose goods are cheap and have a good quality.

When Russia and Ukraine had a flaming row over Russian gas supplies to Ukraine,
Europe became the victim of that quarrel. For decades Russia was a reliable gas deliverer.
I say you something else. Many Dutch people and other Europeans would prefer Russian oil above Arab oil. They dream of a situation that nobody buys Arab oil anymore, and so
that the Arabs will fade away in their dry hot desserts.
You have to realise that Russia is more and more becomming one of these Western powers on the geopolitical stage. In sport we see blond Russian women competing with our blond women, without seeing them as alien anymore, like in the times of the iron curtain. See it like this, Russians look like Europeans so they are accepted as Europeans,
Berlin is becomming a Russian city. That means that it becomes more European.

---------------------------------------------------

17 Russian Dream: no, it's not for everyone (for ethnic Russians only)

Oh! Finally I see this assertion, that Russia is a prison of nations! For example, I don't know any nation that was destroyied under Russian protectorate, do you have? Even though we did some wrongs in the past, we always corrected it after all. For example,
the return of Chechens and Tatars from the exile.

Chechenya, Afghanistan, Oekraine in the thirtees (partly by Ukrainian Communists, partly by Russian Stalinists), the cities Budapest (1956) and Prague (1968).

------------------------------------------------------

42 “We don’t do body counts”: others do, however, and it's not looking good
(already practice for centuries, because it's honourable to die for Mother Russia,
and an individual human life is not that important. The Collective is important)

Yes we had a period of our history when an individual interests prevailed over all-national and the state was desintegrated and we fallen under Mongol yoke over than 200 years!
I think that Poland for example has an analogous situation.

You are partly right, I meant the terrible state of the red army, the abuse of soldiers by fellow soldiers and officers, the high suicide rate in that army, and the thousands of death in peace time. Many Russian boys try to escape this hell by deserting with the help of their mothers, other family or friends.

[constantine]

And 45 ways Russia is screwing the world

In the 19th century Tzarist Russia wanted to Russificate the Russian part of partitioned
Poland.

To Russificate Poland? Ha! Just imagine, that in 1815, when Poland was added to Russian Empire as The Tsardom of Poland, we (Russia itself) was an absolute monarchy but Russian's tsars had only constitutional power in Poland. When we had a serfdom untill 1861, in Polant it was abolished much earlier by Russian tsars.
May be it was the lesser of three evils (Russia, German, Austria) to be in the Russian sphere? What would be happen if Poland was absorbed entirely by German?
May be it was a chance for Poland to be divided between three absolutely different and hostile powers?
---------------------------------------------------------------
There is a genuine fear for Russian imperialism under Central- and Eastern Europeans and Georgians.

As I know, in 1783 Russia and the eastern Georgian kingdom of Kartli-Kakheti signed the Treaty of Georgievsk, according to which Kartli-Kakheti received protection by Russia. In the summer of 1805 Russian troops on the river Askerani near Zagam defeated the Persian army and saved Tbilisi from conquest. From 1803 to 1878, as a result of numerous Russian wars against Turkey and Iran, several territories were annexed to Georgia. These areas (Batumi, Artvin, Akhaltsikhe, Poti, and Abkhazia) now represent a large part of the territory of Georgia (WIKIPEDIA). It was only 70 thousands of georgians before Russian "annexation" and 3 millions 100 years after!
------------------------------------------------------------------

In Europe for one century the Russians were seen as the great fear, The Eurasian wild hordes from the east, The Bolsjewist mongolians.
This image did not die after the defeat of Nazism or fascism in Europe, it was and probably stil is deeply rooted in the hearts and minds of many older Europeans.

If Russians are so horrible why all nations are still exist? We had enough strength to demolish all nations and states in Europe especially after Napoleonic wars and WWII? Read the memoirs, Russian army was a most beloved among Parisians in 1814-1817.

------------------------------------------------------

When Russia and Ukraine had a flaming row over Russian gas supplies to Ukraine,
Europe became the victim of that quarrel. For decades Russia was a reliable gas deliverer.

That's why we signed a treaty with Germany about pipeline.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Chechenya, Afghanistan, Oekraine in the thirtees (partly by Ukrainian Communists, partly by Russian Stalinists), the cities Budapest (1956) and Prague (1968).

But now this all nations and cities exist, and may be partly flourish.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
You are partly right, I meant the terrible state of the red army, the abuse of soldiers by fellow soldiers and officers, the high suicide rate in that army, and the thousands of death in peace time. Many Russian boys try to escape this hell by deserting with the help of their mothers, other family or friends.

Yes it's not a sugar life, but not a hell!

[pieter]

Constantine,

You are probably right from Russian point of view and on some historical facts,
but there will always be a differance in looking at history in Russia, Poland and
The Netherlands. I am not an expert on Russian (Georgian) history, but I know
a little bit of the Polish and Dutch ones.
The differance between the Nazi occupation and Sovjet Occupation was that
the first was a racial war (anti-jewish and anti-Slav), the second occupation
took a class struggle with it, and was targeted against the Polish intelligentsia
(and even Communists; Polish Communists were eliminated in the thirtees
and between 1939 and 1941, by the Sovjet NKVD).
I can understand the Polish objections against the Russians and Ukrainians.
In the Netherlands this was less obvious, because here the Sovjets were long
seen as good allies, and the Dutch Communist party was a resistance organisation,
one of the biggest in the country. During the cold war visions changed.
In 1956 during the Budapest rising a furious mob attacked the Communist
De Waarheid (The Dutch Pravda) in the Felix Meritis in the Keizersgracht in Amsterdam.
The credit it had built up during the war years were lost, the general mood was one
of fear for a Bolsjewist invasions. Many people did a training for farmer and immigrated
to Canada, the USA, South-Africa and Southern-America.
Today stil the stereotype of the Communist Russian exist, and we hear of stories of
corruption, censorship or clsoing down of TV chananls and newspapers, and the
violence of the far right. There is also the idea that many Russians long for the
Sovjet-Union, because they have they idea that that was a mighty empire,
and the present Russian Federation is not.

But that could be just be the (biased) Western press and WEstern encyclopedia,
Constantine. Anyway I distrust Russian leaders and politicians like I distrust
the Western ones. I have no idea what the vision or aim of the Kremlin is?

Pieter

[bescheid]

Dear constantine

To begin with: May I offer to you a very warm welcom and hello to you. For we have only now the occasion of meeting.

I find your manner of speaking very interesting as it has been a very long time since conversing with a Russian person as of your self. It is good to hear your prospective of a personal narative in respect to view point and prospective, in your own manner of description.

My reason of entering this descussion as exchanged between your self and pieter, is only as an addition to the fine descussion exchange of your self and that of pieter.

Of course not all, will agree with all, that is brought forward in a discussion of this magnitude, of content. laden with a certain amount of possible snare traps of sensitivies. But, as we are all of educated people, this only provides to us, a bit of spice to make the information much more tasty.

Now, I will dispense with formalities into the meat of discussion.

The previous history of Eastern/Cental/Western Europe is ok for educational purposes, but, serves very little for the present, for it only projects into mudding up the stream, so to speak, a vehicle of confusion.

It is the present that determines the future and the quality of the future sets upon the foundation of the past.

Your country is fortunante to have such a capable person as: Vladimir Putin. He {Putin} has a very commendable record of service to his country from his KGB experience whilst serving in East Germany. He developed a clear vision of his career and a well defined goal. His vision and pathway, was to be head of a very powerful and diversely complicated nation, that would in time, not be a Soviet nation, but, that of a Russian nation. He knew as most, that the so called cold war as all wars of what ever, will and would end. And in doing so, accuratly developed his vision and prepared him self to attain that goal.

Vladimir Putin apparantly has good instincts,as he had learnt excellent German whilst in East Germany. Then with this abilty of language and as if he was German, set up assets with German leadership. For this would be the key in future intrusion into the Western European trade market, he would need the cooperaton and assistance of West Germany to do this. For this, he {Putin} formed an important alliance with Herr Schröder for then currant national concerns and resolvement of some financial issues. For also, that of technical requirement of assistance with future fuel transportation projects {Baltic undersea pipline " Östsee unter Seerohrleitung"}.

Plus {money} the Russian banks had not the reserves to cover such a magntude of risk. To ask for underwriting and loans through the US banks was out of the question do to bad credit from some previous risk losses. And though it was obtainable through some Swiss banking concerns, the required collaterial would have been financially back breaking.

It was to the German Banks to provide operational capitol and risk underwriting. And so it was done whilst Herr Schröder was in the position to do so at some risk of charges of mis-use of position for personal gain.

With Herr Schröder now out of politics and still at the helm.

The following url is of American orgin but, accurate.

partners.nytimes.com/library/world/europe/061500russia-germany.html

The following url, is what is not, but, is.

www.mosnews.com/news/2005/01/31/spiesingermany.shtml

{Every thing changes, but, every thing stays the same, not every thing is as it appears}


Charles

[pieter]

Charles,

Interesting statement, it widens the discussion with a German or German-American point of view.
I say this, because you talk about Putins leadership from a German pragmatic, economical perspective.
I hope that you can understand that I look at it at with a slightly differant point of view.
Not from a Dutch point of view, but with a view which is emphatic to the Central-European
(Polish, Czech and Hungarian) view. The Russian-German relationship is differant from the German-French
(Berlin-Paris) alliance, but I understand that it worriers the Visegrad countries.
Especially now the Polish-German relations are troubled, and the Polish-Russian relations are
to put it mildly chilly too. Poland was and is concerned about the situation in Chechenya (violation
of human rights there; there is some sympathy for the Chechens in Poland, because the Chechens
were deported to Siberia in the past too, and occupied by Russian aremd forces and Pro-Russian
Chechen criminal warlords). It is complicated, because of the Chechen terrorism and maffia in
Russian cities (a Russian friend of mine his friend was killed by Chechen maffia in Moscow in the
early ninetees). I am talking above here about the suffering of the Chechen population.

Ofcourse the Central-European are always worried about the big regional players, Russia and
Germany, because of their political power and importance, their economical influence, their
financial means, their espionage, and the heritage, which plays in peoples minds.

Pieter