Pieter, We owe you an apology -

[justjohn]

Obviously this US general cannot see too clearly as the 'lint is covering his navel'.

BBC NEWS
Srebrenica gay theory irks Dutch

Dutch officials have rejected a retired US general's claim that its forces failed at Srebrenica because of poor morale over openly gay soldiers.

A defence ministry spokesman dismissed as "complete nonsense" the remarks by John Sheehan, a former Nato commander.

Gen Sheehan had been speaking at a US Senate hearing on allowing gay people to serve openly in the US military.

He said Dutch leaders had told him that the presence of gay soldiers had contributed to the Bosnian massacre.

Srebrenica was a UN safe haven under the protection of Dutch peacekeepers when, in 1995, Bosnian Serb forces overran the town, killing some 8,000 Muslim men and boys.


_{Some 8,000 people were killed at Srebrenica in 1995}


Gen Sheehan said the former chief of staff of the Dutch army had told him that the presence of openly gay soldiers in the Dutch peacekeeping force were seen as "part of the problem" which contributed to the fall of Srebrenica.

He argued that since the end of the Cold War, European militaries had changed and he concluded "there was no longer a need for an active combat capability".

'Totally off-target'

This "socialisation" process, Gen Sheehan said, "included open homosexuality" and led to "a focus on peacekeeping operations because they did not believe the Germans were going to attack again or the Soviets were coming back".

"It is astonishing that a man of his stature can utter such complete nonsense," Dutch defence ministry spokesman Roger van de Wetering said in response.

"The Srebrenica massacre and the involvement of UN soldiers was extensively investigated by the Netherlands, international organisations and the United Nations.

"Never was there in any way concluded that the sexual orientation of soldiers played a role."

The Dutch ambassador to the US, Renee Jones-Bos, added in a statement on the embassy's website that she "couldn't disagree more" with the claims by the former general, who retired from the military in 1997.

In the US Senate itself, Senator Carl Levin, chairman of the Armed Services Committee, told Gen Sheehan he was "totally off-target".

Several countries - including Britain, Canada, Australia and Israel - allow openly gay people to serve in the armed services.
Story from BBC NEWS:
news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/europe/8575717.stm

Published: 2010/03/19 03:52:43 GMT

© BBC MMX

[karl]

J.J.

Perhaps Pieter has not arrived upon this message. Please do forgive my intrusion.

Believe what that you will, but, the Dutch were not to be blamed for that situation, in as much to many of us in those times. For it was a butcher shop of killing.

It was the Serbians of blame. Those stinking b----stards were nothing worse then killing animals.

And yes, some were caught and placed into our hands as information prisoners, and as so, were processed as such.

I am quite positive of your knowledge of those days in that war. Perhaps though, some reminders of the Serbian manner of warfare against civilians who have nothing to shoot back with.

On one occasion of incident. We were to investigate. Three young fellows wearing military mixed uniforms were to break into a family home at morning breakfast. They then removed out the inhabitants of count: One man {husband} one woman {wife of man}, one pre-teen female and one teen male, one elderly female. unto in-front of home. The Serbian {freedom fighters} then proceeded to rape the women {spouse} in front of her family repeatedly. Then shot her as nude. These brave freedom fighters then shot the man {father of the 2 children} in-front view of the elderly woman and two then surviving children. Then shot each of the children.

The elderly woman was then last of family. One of the three Serbians then cut off her left index finger for her gold ring, then proceeded to shoot her dead with one shot through her fore head.

The scene was fully documented after the fact of incident. Upon following day, three Serbian fellows were captured close in area of incident by a patrol sweep of our military, combatants as suspected of situation as above, were then released to our custody for processing.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/675945.stm

Karl

[pieter]

JJ/Karl,

I read this message, I read it in the Dutch newspapers and saw it on the Dutch news. I wacthed the tragedy and saw the massacre of Srebrenica in the Ninetees and was ashamed as a Dutchman back then. Today I can say, I was not there, and I was not in the situation of the Dutch soldiers there who followed the command of the Dutch command there and the role of the Dutch allies there at that time.

What I do know was that Dutchbat was armed with lightweight weapons while the
Serbians were heavily armed with heavy tanks, artillery and heavely armed
soldiers. They were shooting Ducks there.

Maybe they could have fought there to their deaths, because they would have
lost the battle with the Serbians. I regret the killing of 8.000 men and boys
and the ethnic cleansing of the area.

But in the same time want to state that the Western press was biased against
the Serbs, and that the Bosniacs and Croats were no saints either.
In the distorched image of the ninetees the Serbs are the evil empire, the
devils and so the bad guys. In my view there were bad guys in the ranks
of all three participants of the civil war. The Serbs are the largest party and
therefor the strongest. They had the Yugoslavian army and the Bosnian Serb
army, the para militairy militia of Serbs extremists (Czetnics, Arkan Tigers,
and others). But the Croats and Bosnian Muslims had militia and war criminals
too. All parties committed war crimes! In the region of Srebrenica Muslim militia
commited war crimes against Serb villlages.

Ofcourse that does not justifies the massacre of the Bosnians in Srebrenica
by Mladic and his men.

What annoyed me was the weak role of the Dutch officer in charge Karremans
and his officers. Dutchbat should'nt have been there if it was not abble to defend
the enclave against the Serb majority which surrounded it.

It was criminal of the political and militairy leaders to put a defensless weak
UN Peacekeeping battalion in a civil war situation with genocide, massacres
and ethnic clensing. I could not see the images of he commander of Dutchbat troops in Srebrenica Thomas J.P. Karremans (1948) drinking with the Serb General Ratko Mladić, the Serb militairy leader.

About the Gay accusation of the American general John Sheehan is ridiculous,
because like every army the Dutch army is a macho, by hetrosexual guys dominated organisation, which is not very attractive for Gays and Lesbians to enter. Ofcourse there are Gays and Lesbians in the army, because they are 10% of the population. But I think that there are less than that percentage in the army.



americanradioworks.publicradio.org/features/kosovo/more1.htm

[kaima]

That is a well reasoned answer, Pieter. Thanks.

I must agree that >>About the Gay accusation of the American general John Sheehan is ridiculous,<<

That expresses it politely! There are some things too important for military to handle, and policy is one of them. As seen many times, the military rarely questions the mission, they only go and do it, leaving any thoughts to morality and ethics to the civilian leaders - as we saw with the US torture in Iraq. I do believe in answerability, and if an enlisted person is prosecuted for an offense as systematic as our torture program was, then a Colonel or a General or a President should be right at his side and get the same punishment - or lack of punishment - as the enlisted.

That is off on a tangent. I hope this US general was a better general than he is a judge of people and motivations! I would not enjoy serving under an incompetent.

Kai