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Post by leslie on Sept 11, 2007 8:53:09 GMT -7
Some members may have seen Pawi and me having a 'discussion' over the use of the English language on another thread. I thought general members might wish to see 'real English'. The following is the start of a story - can you understand it? "Ah mind as weel as if't hed nobber been last neet - an' its varra nar twenty 'ear sen, noo - lal Mary Jackson sent ther sarvant lad, Tommy Wilson (a chap'at was oalas consider't rayder leet, but neah connekshun o' mine, mind)ta tell meh 'ah were wantit ower 't way efter nine o'clock. Whoa wents meh? - ses Ah Ooar Mary, sez he Varra weel, Tommy, Ah sed, Ahll be theear just noo. Am away Tommy went santerin off, like as if he'd just mendit oot ov a lang illness, an as if his clogs hed been shod wish cuddy cawkers."
This is written more or less as spoken in the Cumberland English - I doubt whether Ian will get it all! Leslie
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Post by rdywenur on Sept 11, 2007 9:50:26 GMT -7
Leslie, sounds Scottish to me. Here in the states sometimes it is hard to understand each other and we are all speaking English. I have a hard time understanding the Southerners, Rednecks,sometimes blacks with their street and ebonics English. (sometimes even that guy up in the state of Washington) ;D
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Post by bescheid on Sept 11, 2007 13:13:52 GMT -7
Leslie
Your self and Scatts are both from the land of English and as so, this may be of ease to both of you. But, to my self, I am lost! And this for sure!!.
Charles
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Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Sept 11, 2007 13:19:26 GMT -7
Leslie Your self and Scatts are both from the land of English and as so, this may be of ease to both of you. But, to my self, I am lost! And this for sure!!. Charles No, come on, it is quite easy. Try reading it aloud to yourself, you will get half the contents right, then try deducing the rest and here you are!
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Post by bescheid on Sept 11, 2007 13:38:39 GMT -7
Leslie, sounds Scottish to me. Here in the states sometimes it is hard to understand each other and we are all speaking English. I have a hard time understanding the Southerners, Rednecks,sometimes blacks with their street and ebonics English. (sometimes even that guy up in the state of Washington) ;D Jeepers, Chris I had not idea my English was so bad! {Rotten}. As a little fellow, I learnt my English through the requirements of the British occupational forces in Dänemark. The British military inspected our school, made us to form a line, and a very nice Britisch lady {she smelled so clean and nice} asked us questions of name/birthplace/date of birth and nationality. I was severely frightened by one of their solder people with a machine pistole, peed my pants,ran for our school marme crying, she put me to work cleaning the chalk board. This saved me from their arrest as an illegal national and trucked off to where on earth they would place little German bastards as of my self then. I have learnt from the best of people of the land of English, I am so stunned that others would say, I am lacking of proper English. So, what is proper English? British? Canadian? American? For these are only that I am personally aware of.. And yes, the American Black people and their dialect. It is certainly not African. They speak overly fast and strange, this for sure. I have found through being very careful, to simply shut up and listion whilst they speak, and to be polite, smile and walk away whilst the spark of life still resides within my body. Charles
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Post by bescheid on Sept 11, 2007 13:54:55 GMT -7
Leslie Your self and Scatts are both from the land of English and as so, this may be of ease to both of you. But, to my self, I am lost! And this for sure!!. Charles No, come on, it is quite easy. Try reading it aloud to yourself, you will get half the contents right, then try deducing the rest and here you are! Ok, Ok, { A, chap' at was oalas' consider't rayder leet, but neah connekshun o' mine}. { A fellow---was--also--consider---but-no--connection to me} I have little idea of this meaning. For are you sure of this? Charles
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Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Sept 11, 2007 14:19:02 GMT -7
Ok, Ok, { A, chap' at was oalas' consider't rayder leet, but neah connekshun o' mine}. { A fellow---was--also--consider---but-no--connection to me} I have little idea of this meaning. I guess it is: a chap that was always considered rather late, but near/no (?) connection of mine.
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Post by bescheid on Sept 11, 2007 14:26:55 GMT -7
Leslie Your self and Scatts are both from the land of English and as so, this may be of ease to both of you. But, to my self, I am lost! And this for sure!!. Charles No, come on, it is quite easy. Try reading it aloud to yourself, you will get half the contents right, then try deducing the rest and here you are! Ok Pawian I have it figured. What Leslie is speaking. Is of welish. What his dialect is, is of an very old form of {Niedersächsicsch} of the land of foreignners {Wala}or welsch. I must think of this for a bit. For his land was invaded by the Anglo Saxon then by the land of the Raven {Dänmark} of the vikings. What is named as of is: Cumberland or Cumbrian Welsh or {North Welsh}. How ever and what ever, this language is of an old form of Niedersäsachsicsch. Or low Saxon. A North See dialect of the people to the West. Charles
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Post by bescheid on Sept 11, 2007 14:32:45 GMT -7
Ok, Ok, { A, chap' at was oalas' consider't rayder leet, but neah connekshun o' mine}. { A fellow---was--also--consider---but-no--connection to me} I have little idea of this meaning. I guess it is: a chap that was always considered rather late, but near/no (?) connection of mine. Ok now, would this mean a relative of mine, but not acknowldged as such? Charles
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Post by rdywenur on Sept 11, 2007 15:27:19 GMT -7
Charles,
I never said you had bad English. You just have a different way of saying certain words that I am not use to so as I am reading along sometimes I get stopped dead in my tracks till I figure it out. So if 'm reading in a hurry I must go back and reread. Consider yourself a writer with an accent . ;D ;D ;D At least that is my interpretation.
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Post by leslie on Sept 12, 2007 2:18:57 GMT -7
The English in the start of this little story is English as spoken in the Cumbrian dialect. Cumbria is the last English county in England before you cross the border into Scotland (The English Lake District - the most beautiful part of England) with the city of Carlisle as the country major city near that border. As with most derivations of the 'English' language, it has developed from Celtic, Viking, Friesian languages - the early invaders of Britain, stayed for a while then mostly went home!!
I'll give a full translation a little later when you've had a try at it. Pawi has the good idea to say it out aloud (or aloud in hour head) rather than try to just work out the words on the page.
Leslie (that lal lad frae Cummerlan)
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Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Sept 12, 2007 2:53:34 GMT -7
Ah mind as weel as if't hed nobber been last neet - an' its varra nar twenty 'ear sen, noo - lal Mary Jackson sent ther sarvant lad, Tommy Wilson (a chap'at was oalas consider't rayder leet, but neah connekshun o' mine, mind)ta tell meh 'ah were wantit ower 't way efter nine o'clock. Whoa wents meh? - ses Ah Ooar Mary, sez he Varra weel, Tommy, Ah sed, Ahll be theear just noo. Am away Tommy went santerin off, like as if he'd just mendit oot ov a lang illness, an as if his clogs hed been shod wish cuddy cawkers." This is written more or less as spoken in the Cumberland English - I doubt whether Ian will get it all! Ok, I will give it a try although I am at work and without my dictionary of Cumbrian English. I mind as well as if it had never been last night - and it`s very near twenty years soon, now - little Mary Jackson sent her servant lad, Tommy (a chap that was always considered rather late but no connection of mine, mind) to tell me I were wanted over there after nine o` clock.
"Who wants me?" says I. "Old Mary," says he. "Very well, Tommy," I said, "I`ll be there just now."
And away Tommy went sauntering off, like as if he`d just made it out of a long illness, and as if his clogs had been shot with Cuddy Cockers.PS. Cuddy Cockers is a kind of beer. Clogs are shoes.
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Post by leslie on Sept 12, 2007 9:15:27 GMT -7
Pawi I am pleased to say I give you 3 marks out of 10 - tell that to your students and see if they still think the same about you!!!! Le Maitre
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Post by leslie on Sept 12, 2007 11:18:18 GMT -7
For anybody who wants the translation of the start to the story in Cumbrian dialect , read on.
I remember as well as if it had been last night - and it’s very nearly twenty years ago – little Mary Jackson sent their servant boy, Tommy Wilson (a chap who was always considered rather simple-minded (light in the head), but he was no relation of mine, to tell me that I was wanted at her place across the way after nine o’clock. ‘Who wants me’ I said ‘Our Mary’ he said ‘ Very well, Tommy’ I said ‘I’ll be there soon’ Away sauntered off Tommy as if he’d just recovered from a long illness, and as if his clogs had donkey irons (like horseshoes) fixed to their bottoms.
Leslie
Sorry Pawi, 'Cuddy Cockers' is not English beer - is it good in Poland?
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Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Sept 12, 2007 12:44:41 GMT -7
I remember as well as if it had been last night - and it’s very nearly twenty years ago – little Mary Jackson sent their servant boy, Tommy Wilson (a chap who was always considered rather simple-minded (light in the head), but he was no relation of mine, to tell me that I was wanted at her place across the way after nine o’clock. ‘Who wants me’ I said ‘Our Mary’ he said ‘ Very well, Tommy’ I said ‘I’ll be there soon’ Away sauntered off Tommy as if he’d just recovered from a long illness, and as if his clogs had donkey irons (like horseshoes) fixed to their bottoms. Hey, that`s not fair. That`s not exactly what we expect from you now and different to what we were supposed to do with this text. Instead of polishing the style, you should have kept it and only improved the spelling so that we know how to read the text. For example, I know that someone has recovered from a long illness, that`s what I can guess quite easily. But, is it " he`d just made it out of a long illness or he`d just mended out of a long illness? I also know that the word now is used in the meaning of soon, and you needn`t have changed I says into correct I said. Also changing mind into remember was unfair. etc etc etc Do you know what I mean? Can you do give us the legible text with retained Cumbrian style? Really? hahahaha Maybe Cuddy Cockers isn`t a kind of beer but Cuddy Lugs and Cocker Snoot are. Early Bitter End beers included Cocker Snoot and Skinner's Old Strong. Later on Cuddy Lugs was produced; this is the only one of the original beers which is currently being brewed, although there are plans to revive Cocker Snoot later this year.
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