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Post by pieter on Aug 26, 2007 15:57:51 GMT -7
For Pawian!
With the overemotional or sentimental Polish mind or soul I mean the exaggerated glorification of the past in an irrational romantic souce, will the reality was less fantastic. For instant the Czestochowa cult, nostalgia, and the national catholic church.
Probably a secular liberal from a secularised country can not understand the devout Polish National Catholic mysticism of Czestochowa. Even when this person has an Catholic background.
Because 95 % is Catholic, the Catholicism does not have enough opposition to grow as a faith spiritually or rationally. The priests, myths, and an absolutists chruch say the truth, and the critics can be labeled as immoral Western atheïsts or reds.
Pieter
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Post by pieter on Aug 26, 2007 16:05:15 GMT -7
Czestochowa
Czestochowa (Czech: Censtochová, German: Tschenstochau) is a city in south Poland on the Warta River with 248,894 inhabitants (2004). It has been situated in the Silesian Voivodeship (administrative division) since 1999, and was previously the capital of Czestochowa Voivodeship (1975-1998). The town is known for the famous Paulist monastery of Jasna Góra that is the home of the Black Madonna painting, a shrine of the Virgin Mary. Every year, millions of pilgrims from all over the world come to Czestochowa to see it. There is also a Lusatian culture excavation site and museum in the city and ruins of a medieval castle in Olsztyn, approximately 15 kilometres (ca. 10 mi) from the city centre.
City name
The name of Czestochowa means Cz?stoch's place and comes from a personal name of Czestoch mentioned in the mediaeval documents also as Czestobor and Czestomir. The original name was mentioned as Czestochowa, spelled Czanstochowa in 1220, or Czestochow in 1382 and 1558. A part of today's city called Czestochowka was a separate municipality mentioned in 14th century as the Old Czestochowa (Antiquo Czanstochowa, 1382) and Czestochowka in 1470-80. Czestochowa is also known as Czestochowa, Czenstochov, and Chenstochov.
History
1200s-1500s The village of Cz?stochowa was founded in 11th century. It is first mentioned as a village in historical documents from 1220. In 1382 the Paulist monastery of Jasna Góra was founded by W?adys?aw Opolczyk (Ladislav of Opole) - the Polish Piast prince of Upper Silesia. Two years later the monastery received its famous Black Madonna icon of the Virgin Mary and in subsequent years became a center of pilgrimage, contributing to the growth of the adjacent town. Before 1377 Czestochowa received a town charter, which was later changed to the Magdeburg Law in 1502. 1600s-1700s In the 17th century the local monastery was turned into a fortress, which was one of the pockets of Polish resistance against the Swedish armies during The Deluge in 1655. The Jewish community in Czestochowa came into existence by about 1700. After the second Partition of Poland it was annexed by Prussia. After 1760, Jacob Frank, the leader of a Jewish religion mixing Kabbalah, Catholicism and Islam, was imprisoned in the monastery by the church. His followers established near him, establishing a cult of his daughter Eve Frank. In August of 1772, Frank was released by the Russian general Bibikov, who had occupied the city. 1800s
Pope Benedictus XVI in Jasna Góra Monastery During the Napoleonic Wars, in 1807 it became part of the Duchy of Warsaw and since 1815 the Kingdom of Poland. This started a period of fast growth of the city. In 1819 renowned military architect Jan Bernhard planned and started the construction of Aleja Najswietszej Panny Marii - the Holiest Virgin Mary Avenue, which currently is the main axis of the modern city. The two existing towns of Czestochowa and Czestochowka (the latter received the city rights in 1717 as Nowa Czestochowa) were finally merged in 1826. In 1846 the Warsaw-Vienna Railway line was opened, linking the city with the rest of Europe. After 1870 iron ore started to be developed in the area, which gave a boost to the local industry. Among the most notable investments of the epoch was the Huta Czestochowa steel mill built by Bernard Hantke, as well as several weaveries and paper factories. 1900s
Town hall
During World War I the town came under German occupation, and in 1918 it became a part of the newly-reborn Republic of Poland. The new state acquired large deposits of good iron ore in Silesia and the mines in Czestochowa became inefficient and soon were closed. This brought the period of prosperity to an end. At the same time a bishopric was relocated to the city in 1925. After the Polish Defensive War of 1939, the town was occupied by Nazi Germany, renamed to Tschenstochau, and incorporated into the General Government. The Nazis marched into Czestochowa on Sunday, September 3, 1939, two days after they invaded Poland. The next day, which became known as Bloody Monday, approximately 150 Jews were shot dead by the Germans. On April 9, 1941, a ghetto for Jews was created. During World War II approximately 45,000 of Czestochowa's Jews were murdered by the Germans, almost the entire Jewish community living there. The city was liberated from the Germans by the Red Army on January 16, 1945. Due to the communist idea of fast industrialisation, the inefficient steel mill was significantly expanded and named after Boleslaw Bierut. This, combined with the growing tourist movement, led to yet another period of fast city growth, concluded in 1975 with the creation of a separate Czestochowa Voivodeship.
Tourism
Currently the city is one of the main tourist attractions of the area and is sometimes called the little Nuremberg because of the number of souvenir shops and historical monuments. It attracts millions (4.5 mln - 2005) of tourists and pilgrims every year. The Black Madonna of Czestochowa, housed at the Jasna Gora Monastery, is a particularly popular attraction.
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Pawian
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Post by Pawian on Aug 27, 2007 0:05:56 GMT -7
Probably a secular liberal from a secularised country can not understand the devout Polish National Catholic mysticism of Czestochowa. Even when this person has an Catholic background. Because 95 % is Catholic, the Catholicism does not have enough opposition to grow as a faith spiritually or rationally. The priests, myths, and an absolutists chruch say the truth, and the critics can be labeled as immoral Western atheïsts or reds. Pieter What is there to understand? Simply, some people believe and some don`t. In the same way a devout catholic from Poland may have problems with understanding why Holland is a secularised country. Częstochowa occupies a very important place in Polish history, tradition, culture and religious life and it must be accepted as such. There is no need to understand it, it is enough to know it.
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Post by ludikundera on Aug 27, 2007 2:22:32 GMT -7
Probably a secular liberal from a secularised country can not understand the devout Polish National Catholic mysticism of Czestochowa. Even when this person has an Catholic background. Because 95 % is Catholic, the Catholicism does not have enough opposition to grow as a faith spiritually or rationally. The priests, myths, and an absolutists chruch say the truth, and the critics can be labeled as immoral Western atheïsts or reds. Pieter What is there to understand? Simply, some people believe and some don`t. In the same way a devout catholic from Poland may have problems with understanding why Holland is a secularised country. Częstochowa occupies a very important place in Polish history, tradition, culture and religious life and it must be accepted as such. There is no need to understand it, it is enough to know it.Just take it on faith! ;D
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jeanne
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Post by jeanne on Aug 27, 2007 3:32:01 GMT -7
Am I correct that August 26th is the Feast of Our Lady of Czestochowa?
Jeanne
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Post by pieter on Aug 27, 2007 4:46:19 GMT -7
Probably a secular liberal from a secularised country can not understand the devout Polish National Catholic mysticism of Czestochowa. Even when this person has an Catholic background. Because 95 % is Catholic, the Catholicism does not have enough opposition to grow as a faith spiritually or rationally. The priests, myths, and an absolutists chruch say the truth, and the critics can be labeled as immoral Western atheïsts or reds. Pieter What is there to understand? Simply, some people believe and some don`t. In the same way a devout catholic from Poland may have problems with understanding why Holland is a secularised country. Częstochowa occupies a very important place in Polish history, tradition, culture and religious life and it must be accepted as such. There is no need to understand it, it is enough to know it. Pawian, It is nice to hear your reply on my provocative Secular posting! It was the first time I brought it up, I know the importance of Czestochowa for Polish Catholics, and Catholics from neighbouring countries. It's the same kind of worship as Fatima in Portugal or Lourdes in France, but with a differant history behind it. The Black Madonna for me symbolizes the hope Poles had in difficult times, because of this Miracle. I never would go on pilgrimage, but I certainly repsect those people who walk long routes to come there. I saw the Pilgrims and old trucks in Warsaw in august 2006. Czestochowa is a Polish thing! Pieter
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Pawian
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Post by Pawian on Aug 27, 2007 22:58:32 GMT -7
It was the first time I brought it up, I know the importance of Czestochowa for Polish Catholics, and Catholics from neighbouring countries. Knowledge is a powerful tool! Yes, I can agree. What Miracle? Going on a pilgrimage isn`t only meeting God. It is also meeting people who share your interests. It feels good to be in a group of people whom you haven`t got to know personally yet, but you know they are like you. O la la, now you are trying to wriggle out of it. In German art thread you suddenly started writing about Częstochowa cult in a rather critical context. Yes, it`s Polish specialty and let it be so! Pieter
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Post by rdywenur on Aug 28, 2007 6:03:38 GMT -7
Pawian I took it to mean the miracle associated with OLC as we know it
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Pawian
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Post by Pawian on Aug 28, 2007 10:18:50 GMT -7
Pawian I took it to mean the miracle associated with OLC as we know it I didn`t know it. I am not too keen on paintings and legends about them.
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Post by pieter on Aug 28, 2007 17:39:25 GMT -7
Yes, Pawian, because I never saw anything in the Maria or Madonna cult of the Catholic church, I like the central figure of Jesus Christ only in the Protestant faith! In the Catholic faith there is to much warshipping of Madonna's, saints, holy people and etc. I just don't believe in it! Other people do! She was the mother of christ, nothing more and nothing less! That's all!
Pawian
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jeanne
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Post by jeanne on Aug 29, 2007 4:02:36 GMT -7
Yes, Pawian, because I never saw anything in the Maria or Madonna cult of the Catholic church, I like the central figure of Jesus Christ only in the Protestant faith! In the Catholic faith there is to much warshipping of Madonna's, saints, holy people and etc. I just don't believe in it! Other people do! She was the mother of christ, nothing more and nothing less! That's all! Pieter, Just a clarification for you; Catholics do not "worship" Mary and the saints, only "honor" them. We worship God alone. There is a lot of misunderstanding about that. Jeanne
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Pawian
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Post by Pawian on Sept 2, 2007 4:36:12 GMT -7
Yes, Pawian, because I never saw anything in the Maria or Madonna cult of the Catholic church, I like the central figure of Jesus Christ only in the Protestant faith! In the Catholic faith there is to much warshipping of Madonna's, saints, holy people and etc. I just don't believe in it! Other people do! She was the mother of christ, nothing more and nothing less! That's all! Consider it just another Polish peculiarity. hahahahaha Although formally dominated by men, surprisingly, Polish women have always had a lot to say in the family. They were allowed this by their husbands who held Mary in high esteem.
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george
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Post by george on Sept 9, 2007 13:32:36 GMT -7
Jeanne....
"Just a clarification for you; Catholics do not "worship" Mary and the saints, only "honor" them. We worship God alone. There is a lot of misunderstanding about that." Jeanne
Jeanne
Jeanne that is just hogwash. Mary in many cultures is more than honored, she is worshipped Exp. Poland and Mexico, to name a couple. The late Pope John Paul worshipped Mary. Theres no doubt about it. He gave credit to Mary for saving his life in connection to his assinastion attempt. I have no problem with this worship. I think this worshipping of Mary leans more to the feminine side of God. No problem there. But to say ( and i know thats the Churche's teaching ) that we are to only honor her is a lot of rubbish. She has been worshipped over the centuries and the Church has condonned it. I myself think the worshipping of Mary goes way overboard, but basicallly i have no problem with it because it tends to sooth woman in general. They have something to relate to. Thats cool.
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jeanne
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Post by jeanne on Sept 9, 2007 16:31:37 GMT -7
George,
I was referring to the official teaching of the Catholic Church, as regarding this official teaching there is much misunderstanding. That is what I wanted to clarify for those who may not be aware of it. Of course, in any religion there will be people who interpret the teachings their own way and manipulate the doctrine to suit their own needs/desires.
However, I do disagree with you regarding JP II "worshipping" Mary. He did give credit to her for saving his life, but believed it was due to her intercession, (prayers to God for him) that he was saved. He, of all people, knew and observed the official teachings of the Church.
Jeanne
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george
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Post by george on Sept 11, 2007 16:16:32 GMT -7
Hi Jeanne....I think you might have missunderstood my point also. My point is that the Church has known for centuries that Mary was being worshipped more than honered. They never did anything about it, and i might suggest encourged it. In so far as John Paul is concerned i have a question. If he didn't worship Mary, then why didn't he cut to the chase and give Jesus credit instead. Don't get me wrong, i think thats cute but it also shows a adoration for Mary which has been going on in the Vatican for centuries.
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