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Post by cskrocki on Nov 23, 2005 14:25:38 GMT -7
Hi all I live in the United States and I am doing research on Polish Culture for a course that I am taking. I am looking for personal perspectives rather than all text info. I am Polish so there is a personal interest as well. If anyone is interested in contributing their thoughts please get in touch with me. I have a few specific questions but you are free to contribute what you find to be unique about Polish Culture. Thanks Chad
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Post by Jaga on Nov 23, 2005 15:16:27 GMT -7
Chad, thank you for registering with us. Did you also see our website: culture.polishsite.us/Please, tell us more about you. I suspect that you have some Polish roots (your last name suggest) therefore you do the research on Polish culture. Frankly, I am also quite interested what such courses can teach about Polish culture and ethnic cultures in general. Maybe we should also learn from you not you from us? What books do you use as a reference for your courses?
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Post by pieter on Nov 25, 2005 15:11:19 GMT -7
Bescheid, Your words can make me shy or provocative. Artist generaly do not think of themselves as you describe them. I see human values, qualities and capacities in many differant people and professions. I think that your view, Adams, Jaga's and nancy's view are as important and interesting as Estelle's and mine. Some artists think very highly of themselves (especially Modern artists) while I think, what better are they than a worker, shopkeeper, farmer, fisherman, writer, teacher, hairdresser or mechanic. I learned in my life that in many occasions I could better depend on people who weren't artist than on fellow artists. Why? Whel, because they can be capricious, ambivallent, very difficult in contact, egocentric, impossible to deal with, jaleous and arrogant. In my personal life I haven't got that much contact with artists or the artworld as I could have been. Maybe that is because most of my life takes part outside the art world. Yes most of my contacts have an Art academy background, but many of them have regular jobs, and -like me- combine urging money in their parttime jobs with their own work in their studio. For me it is healthy to be with one leg in the social infrastructure of Duch cultural life and with my other leg in the General Duch society (healthcare, family, colleages and friends). Estelle wrote something in het Disneyfication topic in the Philosophy, art and culture department. That says a lot of todays artworld and artists; "And art? Oscar Wilde said: “ life imitates art” his vision is now developed into the media-circus: “ reality imitates television” * Art as medium of confession, self-legitimating in ego documents. Art that is due in the glorification triumphed over utter self-estimation and chronic self-indulging narcissism. Obscure thoughts are written on walls. The artist as son shows his Oedipal longing by making his mother centre of his art, publishing his parents’ divorce and battlefield. The artist as postmodern whiner shows her used tampons, the bed she laid in hour after hour, the psychofarmica she uses, she consumes her own history and gives it away to the audience as a pink pastry strip-tease show with a glossy cherry on top. Nothing is private. Neo-neo-Expressivism. We are allowed to see all personal drama from the artist: his questioning, his depression and suicidal urges, his love and losses: his personal history. The only restriction are the borders of the imaginable world from the artist, therefore he re-builds his world by the grace of the tolerant and consuming audience. The audience awkwardly laughs and shrugs: ‘’yeah…whatever….’and walks on. The sequence of private experience, thoughts and ideas are echoed into the world of continuing registration. There is no authenticity, only banality. And by showing the private layers of this obscenity, we are no longer surprised" "While the artist might recognize that there are contradictions and inconsistencies in his beliefs he is afraid to dig into his belief structure to reconcile the differences in case there is no answer. He turns out as much ordinary as his audience. He laments the grief en uncomfortably as though simulacra are enough legitimating to show authenticity via the diverse angles of personal perception. Art about this process, about the role of artist. The fashionable art has turned in on itself, had some therapy sessions, and put its analysis in a glass case. In this notion Art is a Glass House. The worse the analysis, the better: secret narrative or direct personal confession? Eternal repetition or blatant refusal of the past? The only engagement with the outside world is the engagement of self-promotion, publicity and attention-seeking. This is the art of confession: putting the private life in the public sphere and making a statement of doing so. But this, like any other subject in art, can range from the sublime to the pathetic. By showing his solipsistic world the artist is nothing more than the new TV hero here, and by giving away his history he is anonymous again, his confessions and self-perception are on the whole as common as the audience’s. The best explanation of culture today takes its very life from looking reflection of tv and other consumerism that is even echoed via the essence of art. It can affirm that much of life is full of phoney gestures. Oddly enough, they all sound just like art. Art concerns each of them, in one cliché or another. Art shattered the old consensus pretended to be almost pathetic sincerity. Why the drive to be shocking? It is easy: because there is nothing new to say. Culture has become so utterly sterile that the outrage route is the only one remaining to the attention-seeker. After modernism shallowness is a pale left-over. And fermented shallowness eventually leads to confessions. Therefore resembles broadcasted fakery. lamenting kvetch idiologics" Yes there are phantastic artists, who have great ideas, sometimes great painters and writers in the same time (read Vincent van Gogh letters), and Duchamps, Clement Greenberg (1909-1994) www.sharecom.ca/greenberg/default.html , Time Magazine's Robert Hughes, Susan Sontag, the Partisan Review, Commentary, and the Danish director Lars von Trier (from movies like Braking the Waves, Idiots, Dancer in the Dark, Dogville and Pleasentville). But in my view there are very great unknown people, who have a great worldview to. It is important that you listen in your city, whilst travelling thrue the States or abroad listens to a stranger sometimes, who has something to say. I travelled a lot by train in Holland and Europe, because I do not have a car, and in the train I met amazing strangers, and talked with them in Duch, English and German. Abroad it is easier to get in contact on a long journey, than in your own country when everybody is in their own space. People tell youn stories when you are willing to listen, they are like books you read. That's why long train trips or flying by plane to another continent are so appealing. On my last flight to Capetown I sat next to a Norwegian lady, and we talked for almost 16 hours. In that time I learnt a littlebit about Scandinavian culture. How differant our cultures are, and how simular. Understandable. Pieter
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Post by pieter on Nov 27, 2005 7:26:28 GMT -7
Bescheid,
Thanks for your reply which I understand very well. I like British gentlemen, my father head very warm contacts with a British middle class family in Yugoslavia before he met my mother. In his hotel he shared his breakfest and dinner with them, and they emmediately nearly adobted him as his lost sun. He could nearly get not rid of them. British people can be very loyal in a short time, accept who you are and love the contact. Like Scandinavians Duch are more reserved in first contact, but defrost when you put some effort to get to knwo them. In the same time every person and family is differant, and some people behave differantly than the so called characteristic of their own people. Often abroad people were suprised that I am Duch because I do not behave Duch or look stereotypical Duch. Do not the trade or pragmatic attitude they have. In the same way not all Poles and Americans fit in the Polish and American stereotype. For instance Adam could be a New Yorker or from Amsterdam, he comes over to me as a Cosmopolitan, a world citizen, not typical Polish. Exept from your name I would have not guessed your german heritage, in your post before you posted in German.
Pieter
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Post by pieter on Nov 27, 2005 7:27:42 GMT -7
Thanks for the Greenberglink.
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Post by leslie on Nov 27, 2005 12:34:24 GMT -7
Pieter Judge not people by how they look, but by what they do. Leslie
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Post by pieter on Nov 27, 2005 16:17:55 GMT -7
Leslie,
You are right in your comment. But it is a European habit to characterise our neighbours in stereotypes, almost catoonwise. My description of a Britisch Middle class couple in the sixtees in Yugoslavia (a country that does not exsist anymore) does say nothing about Brits today. Actually I am fond of Brits and almost everything British. The British country, the British people, the humor of the British working class, middle class and high classes, BBC1 and BBC2, London, Oxford, Cambridge, Bath, the British countryside, British pubs, British cinema, British theatre, British art, British popmusic, British travelers I meet on my journees, the British culture of my English-South-African family of my sister (ssst, don't tell her husbant, they feel English South-African and do not like to be called Brits, Rooineks -Rednecks- by the Afrikaander people), the British flag, the British army, navy and Royal Air Force, Scotland Yard, Sherlock Holms, Charles Dickens, Evelyn Waugh, Roald Dahl, The Beatles, Rolling Stones, Joy Division, Sex Pistols, Elton John, Roger Moore and Sean Conery, Anthony Hopkins, Jeremy Irons, John Gielgud, John Cleese, Kristin Scott Thomas, Helen Mirren, Charlotte Rampling, Celia Johnson in Brief Encounter (1945), Emily Watson, Kate Winslet, Liz Hurley and etc. Half of Duch and Flemish quality television exsists of British sitcoms, comedies, movies and documentries, because the quality of Duch comedies and sitcoms suck. The rest is American.
I could not live without British comedy once a while. Alan Partridge, The Leage of gentlemen, Smack the Pony, Smith and Johnson, Are you being surved, Yes minister, The Office, French and Saunders, Absolutely Fabulous, Monthy Pyton Flying Circus and etc, etc.
On vacation I often prefer to meet Brits than my compatriots (actualy Brits that behave themselves, because drunken Brits can be as terrible as their Duch and Swedish brethern as they think that they are jolly).
Pieter
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Post by pinkola on Dec 1, 2005 22:25:37 GMT -7
Hello everyone,
My name is Ela. I was born and raised in Poland and moved to Australia in the early eighties. I'm a full time mother, and from next year i'll also be a student. I'll be doing welfare studies; drugs and alcohol. I share a house with my daughter Angelica, and Milo the dog in the leafy Melbourne suburb of Noble Park.
P.S: I find your forum very interesting on various subjects.
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Post by Jaga on Dec 2, 2005 6:23:01 GMT -7
Ela,
your name sounds exactly like my daughter, Elizabeth. Welcome to the forum! I am so glad you like it here
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nancy
European
Posts: 2,144
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Post by nancy on Dec 2, 2005 6:28:34 GMT -7
Hello Ela,
I am very happy to see you here (I think you also posted a bit on the old forum...)!
I understand that there are many people of Polish descent in Australia, and I would be very interested in learning more about the Polonia community there (if there is anything organized, etc.) Perhaps if you have time you would start a new thread and tell us a little more.
PS. I have traveled to Australia twice, mostly around Cairns-Brisbane-Sydney, but before I met him, my husband lived in Melbourne for several months. Wonderful experiences!
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Post by leslie on Dec 2, 2005 12:36:22 GMT -7
Pieter From your catalogue of British 'virtues' etc, it makes you sound more British than I am! Although I am from Polish stock way back, was born in Scotland, brought up for my first ten years in France, lved with my parents in England for the next eight years, then the world (particularly more recently Poland) has been my oyster. So what do I say when people say 'Oh I can't place your accent; where do you come from?'. I was asked this at an interview I attended in London, and I said 'Oh, I've just come down from Sheffield' - and they thought I was trying to be funny with them! I've only been to the Netherlands once and that was when my family and I popped over the border while on holiday in Belgium! Can't remember the name of the little town, but the comment my then wife made was 'Look, nearly every shop is a sex shop!!!' Long life (Sto Lat) Leslie
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Post by pieter on Dec 2, 2005 14:11:23 GMT -7
Leslie,
Thanks for your reply, that little town might have been my good old Vlissingen, the harbour town with sea connections with Great-Britain, due tot the Olau-lines that were there in the recent past. A lot of sailors, Marine people, fishermen, truckdrivers, and tourists from England, Belgium, France and Germany visit that town to enjoy the coast or just to catch the boat. Because of that you have sexshops and Brothels there. When I visit every now and then it looks like the end of the world there, only because my parents live there and because I love the Sea I go there every now and then. But I like the woods in the East where I live now better.
Pieter
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Post by pinkola on Dec 2, 2005 19:23:57 GMT -7
Dear Jaga and Nancy ,
Thank you for your warm welcome!
Nancy, according to the 2001 Census, there are 58,000 Poles in Australia, 20,330 of which reside in Victoria. At 18,500, Melbourne has the largest number of Polish-born residents of all the capital cities, which is almost 1/3 of the total Polish population in Australia.
Nancy, although i do go to polish festivals from time to time, unfortunately i do not participate in every polish event.
If you are interested to find more information about polish community, there is an email address you can write to: pccv@netspace.net.au Polish Community Council Of Victoria Inc.
P.S. Yes, i did write a bit on the other forum! :-)
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Post by Jaga on Dec 3, 2005 20:25:16 GMT -7
Dear Jaga and Nancy , Thank you for your warm welcome! Nancy, according to the 2001 Census, there are 58,000 Poles in Australia, 20,330 of which reside in Victoria. At 18,500, Melbourne has the largest number of Polish-born residents of all the capital cities, which is almost 1/3 of the total Polish population in Australia. Nancy, although i do go to polish festivals from time to time, unfortunately i do not participate in every polish event. Hi Pinkola, welcome here again. In our old Delphi forums we had three Polish Australians so I am glad that we have somebody from this land far away! We do not expect anybody to participate in all Polonia events.... I wish we had an article about polonia in Australia - I do not knwo very much about the origin - how Poles came to Australia etc. Are there any good internet resources or do you have any book,... OK I am just curious - maybe you would be able to write the article to us or help us to write about Australian Polonia ? This would be wonderful!
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Post by pinkola on Dec 6, 2005 2:09:00 GMT -7
Hello Jaga,
Here is what i have found:
Poles formed only a small minority in Australia before 1947. Many who had come here in the early days had left a country partitioned for 123 years between Austria, Prussia and Russia.
The political divisions however, did not erode Polish pride in their language and culture which was fiercely maintained at home and in the new, migrant communities. Among the first Polish migrants to Australia were those who moved to South Australia in the 1850s.
By 1921, there was an estimated 1,780 Poles in Australia. Then after the Second World War, Poland fell under the political influence of the USSR, sparking the biggest wave of Polish migration to Australia.
Between 1947 and 1952 about 65,000 Polish Displaced Persons and other refugees arrived. Many were employed on the Snowy Mountains Hydro-Electric Scheme in New South Wales.
The second significant phase of Polish migration was the so-called Solidarity wave. In the early 1980s the independent trade union movement, Solidarity, openly demanded political reform and its defiance led the government to declare martial law. As a result of the ensuing upheaval, an estimated 15,000 new Polish migrants arrived during this period.
Most Polish-Australians live in Melbourne where the community is estimated at around more than 18,000. There are just over 15,000 living in Sydney and in Adelaide the community is around 8,000 strong.
Poles have made significant contributions to many facets of Australian life. One who left a lasting legacy was Sir Paul Edmund Strzelecki, who named Australia's highest mountain, Mount Kosciuszko, after the famous Polish revolutionary Tadeusz Kosciuszko.
Some more recent prominent figures include, Emeritus Professor Jerzy George Zubrzycki , CBE, MBE formerly of the Australian National University and the internationally recognised Professor Jerzy J. Smolicz of the University of Adelaide, two men who helped lay the foundations of Australia's policy of multiculturalism.
Others include Chief Executive of the Office of Multicultural and International Affairs, Dr Sev Ozdowski in South Australia, actors, Gosia Dobrowolska and Bogdan Koca, swimmer, Michael Klim and musician Paul Grabovsky.
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