george
Cosmopolitan
Posts: 568
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Post by george on Jan 12, 2006 16:36:09 GMT -7
As an American married to a Pole ( 25 years ) i have a question about Polish divorce laws. My sister-inlay is in a abuse alcoholic marriage where she gets beaten on a semi regular basis. Because the house is in both their names, she cannot get divorced because he has a right to live in the house according to Polish law, This makes a divorce impossible because she would have no place to go. ( she has two teenagers). On her mother's advice she saw her priest. His suggestion was to say a rosary to amend her marriage. When i heard this, i wanted to grab him by his roman coller and choke him. I live in New York State where if somebody files a divorce and and if it is not contested after one year, the judge decides ( usually the mother get custody and the father has to find another place to live and when the children become 21 the house is sold and the proceeds are split. Knowing full well Poland is not New York State and it is difficult for a person to find a place to live. However, Poland's divorce law seems so archaic . Can anybody give me some information about reform of Polish divorce laws which can avoid the example i just gave. I'm sorry, although I'm not anti- catholic ( i feel it has a vital purpose ) its just that i think the Church is against more liberal divorce laws that can alleviate a lot of suffering by Polish woman. It always amazed me that woman who are the bulk of the Catholic faith seem to get screwed over most by it.
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Post by jimpres on Jan 12, 2006 17:34:26 GMT -7
I know of people who are divorced but still live in the same apartment with separate entrences. But in your case seems that will not work. Sounds like she needs to get away from him asap. Seems like a relative in Poland may help. If there is one.
JIm
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Post by Jaga on Jan 12, 2006 19:23:01 GMT -7
George,
yes, in Poland there is a problem with the divorce because the divorced people sometimes have to live together in the same apartment or house even after a divorce. But still - she can get a divorce, they can split the house and then her ex-husband would not have the right to touch her or enter her part of the house.
In some sense I am glad that the divorce in Poland is not that easy to get as in the USA but it is not impossible so it makes sense to go through it. Even the church allows the marriage separation- it is quite legal - even according to the church!
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Post by Jaga on Jan 12, 2006 19:28:22 GMT -7
Check the links with information about Polish family, divorces: culture.polishsite.us/smfamily.htmlculture.polishsite.us/articles/art140.htmlThe Main Causes of Divorces in Poland here is what I write: What are the most important arguments for getting a divorce? Why do Poles divorce ? Besides the typical ones - like difference in character, lifestyle, sex habits etc. The typical Polish problem is again - living conditions. It happens sometimes that a young couple has to live separately - a husband with his parents and a wife with her parents. This causes that they start leading separate lives. Sometimes a couple decides to share a small apartment with parents of one and in-laws of the other. This can cause even more problems. Long-distance relationship. A difficult economical situation in 80-es prompted usually men to go temporarily abroad to look for a better job which pays in hard currency. Poles lived in some kind of ghettos, they drunk to much or they lifestyle changed so much - that they are unable to go back to their married life in Poland. Some of them start living with another women. Some immigrants - men and women - were desperately looking for a companionship and they started living in so called "fictional marriages" with another immigrant. Some men (often young) had to leave Poland after martial law in 1982. Because of their political status could not keep in touch with their family. Sometimes women after years of trying to find a lost husband - after her husband was pronounced dead were able to get married again. When the lost husband finally came back - his family was already bound to another man. Alcoholism. By many a problem of alcoholism in Poland (as well as in another Eastern and Northern Europe countries where strong alcohol, like vodka dominate) is seen as a problem number one which leads to a dissolution of Polish families. It is also seen as a main reason of high mortality rate among men in age 40-60. One of the main reasons, besides smoking, of an unhealthy lifestyle of Polish men - so that the average length of life among men is almost 10 years shorter than among women. The average longevity for a man in Poland is just 67 years.
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zooba
Full Pole
Posts: 369
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Post by zooba on Jan 13, 2006 2:36:39 GMT -7
The divorce issue is a real problem in Poland. The position of Catholic Church is in fact so strong that sometimes it goes beyond the reasonable. There are different reasons for divorce and beeing beaten by a drunkard husband is light years from personality clash. Even priests understand this (at least some of them), there are places that offer help for such wives, including offering places to stay. The property matters are another aspect. Even if you could sell the flat/house you live now you can never have two flats for the price. And living under the same roof makes divorce a farce. My mum has been married to an alcoholic husband and serial debtor (how do you call a person who takes loans and never pays them back?) i.e. my own father. For years, when I was a teenager especially, I wished they would get divorced. They haven't because if she threw him out he would end up homeless. So she is paying back all his debts never knowing how much more she'll have to pay. There is a possibilty to separate the couples' finances so that she wouldn't have to do that but she's so afraid to make him angry, that she doesn't even try. All in all I must say life is not easy and you can't help anybody who is not desparate for help. And when they are, they will find the way.
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piwo
Citizen of the World
Co Słychać?
Posts: 1,189
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Post by piwo on Jan 13, 2006 7:42:24 GMT -7
Well, it may be difficult, but at least it's not a Spenard Divorce, eh kaima? The law needs to be more flexible, especially where violence occurs. This should have no tolerance whatsoever, anywhere.
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Post by Jaga on Jan 13, 2006 9:25:32 GMT -7
Yes, there is a possibility to separate finances. One physical worker (as a courier) worked in the publishing house where my mother was a boss. His wife was entitled to take HIS salary - since he might... spend it all for alcohol. So - the law can prevent a drunkard from taking his own salary away from the family!
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Post by leslie on Jan 13, 2006 12:46:54 GMT -7
Very personal. I have been divorced twice, the second two years ago. She left me to shack up with a Creep (even his friends call him that). The divorce eventually cost me 35,OOOGBP plus 1,500 GBP solicitor costs and when I die or sell the house which I managed to hang on to, she will receive 40% of the proceeds from the sale of the house! As she was the one that committed adultery after 28 years!! Justice - in UK it stinks!!!
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Post by jimpres on Jan 13, 2006 12:54:02 GMT -7
Leslie,
Here in California it's just as bad. Except you have to split everthing in half. And if you make more money you will pay alimony + her barrister costs.
Jim
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george
Cosmopolitan
Posts: 568
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Post by george on Jan 13, 2006 17:27:05 GMT -7
"In some sense I am glad that the divorce in Poland is not that easy to get as in the USA but it is not impossible so it makes sense to go through it. Even the church allows the marriage separation- it is quite legal - even according to the church!"
I only partially agree with you Jaga. Although i think divorce in the States is sometimes done on a lark so to speak , i think more often than not divorce's are a healthy thing for a lot of couples. In the case of my sister-inlaw, don't forget there are two kids who are wittnesing a very unhealthy marriage where phyisical violence is occuring. This is terrible for the kids. And the way the divorce law situation is there , the deck is stacked against her. He doesn't work and she works six days a week to support all four of them! I don't know if there are any femenist organizations in Poland or not, but if there aren't, they certainly need one. Its sounds like they have a patriarchial society going on there.
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Post by rdywenur on Jan 13, 2006 18:32:32 GMT -7
Justice in the USA stinks too. My ex was the bad guy in our marriage but he got away with murder. After ten years of marriage I got nothing except the one thing I wanted the most and that was my freedom and dignity and for that there is no price.
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Post by kaima on Jan 13, 2006 21:24:51 GMT -7
Then there is Texas divorce. Jaga, did your husband tell you about that early on? If not he is probably afraid to mention it now....
;-)
Kai
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Post by Jaga on Jan 13, 2006 22:16:40 GMT -7
Then there is Texas divorce. Jaga, did your husband tell you about that early on? If not he is probably afraid to mention it now.... ;-) Kai What is that? This Texas divorce?
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Post by Jaga on Jan 13, 2006 22:19:40 GMT -7
There is not just a black and white, I agree. But here in America people divorce just too easily ;)The families then get so big with all these step-fathers, step-children, half-brothers etc etc
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Post by kaima on Jan 14, 2006 0:43:11 GMT -7
Hi Jaga - No takers on this, others to fill in the details? A Texas divorce comes in a variety of calibers, primarily decided upon the gun in hand. .357 & .44 are probably the most famous and spectacular, but .32 will do in a pinch.
In Anchorage divorce under the same circumstances is called a Spenard Divorce, named after an active and somewhat in-famous part of town (unjustifiably, I believe, but that is another story).
OK, thanks for your patience. A Texas divorce is where one partner shoots the other. It is quick and intended to be final. Has your husband ever taught you to shoot? My brother taught his wife, and she turned out to be a good shot. He is still around after 40 years, so I suppose he has toed the line!
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