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Post by hollister on Mar 26, 2008 12:30:28 GMT -7
The passing of the 4,000th service member in Iraq is a tragic milestone and a testament to the cost of this war, but for those of us who live and fight in Iraq, we measure that cost in smaller, but much more personal numbers. For me those numbers are 8, the number of friends and classmates killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, and 3, the number of soldiers from my unit killed in this deployment. I'm 25, yet I've received more notifications for funerals than invitations to weddings. The complete article is at: www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1725642,00.html
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Post by uncltim on Mar 26, 2008 15:16:56 GMT -7
We are unworthy of our servicemen and women, The way our government treats them when they are injured is an abomination. God Bless Them All.
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Post by freetobe on Mar 26, 2008 15:50:39 GMT -7
Tim, You are so right about the the lack respect and treatment our government provides our servicemen and women. And the many(not all) of Americans act the same way. This goes for our veterans of all wars, legal or not. Shame on them all. Can we change it?
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leni
Freshman Pole
Posts: 29
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Post by leni on Mar 26, 2008 16:44:06 GMT -7
i think that you know that in america 30% of all homeless are american war veterans ?
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Post by uncltim on Mar 26, 2008 18:25:54 GMT -7
The way that we have abandoned our veterans and treated the citizen soldier as chattel property of the government are a national embarassment. Always seems to be money for some pork barrel project or other vote buying scheme. makes me want to throw rocks at somebody!!
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Post by Jaga on Mar 26, 2008 20:10:07 GMT -7
i think that you know that in america 30% of all homeless are american war veterans ? yesterday when we were talking along SF streets we talked to a lady, who works and live here. She told us that... the homeless in SF became a problem because of the Vietnam veterans. It seems that somehow many of ex-soldiers after Vietnam had either financial or mental issues and they boosted the population of homeless up, significantly.
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Post by rdywenur on Mar 28, 2008 14:23:39 GMT -7
Too me it means 1 + 3999 too many. The US government needs to take better care of their service men instead of using and abusing them. How about Desert Storm also and now Iraq.
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Post by freetobe on Mar 28, 2008 18:28:11 GMT -7
Concerned Americans try to help the veterans. The rare instance when an American vet is finally recognized and rewarded for his/her brave contributions is usually followed by a great outcry for better treatment and then it's back to the same old same old. This has been the pattern of veteran assistance since WW I. WW I returning servicemen with war related emotional problems were diagnosed "shellshocked". In WW II it was called "battle fatigue", maybe the same for the Korean War. Vietnam it was "post tramautic stress syndrome". I'm not sure what label the Armed Forces place on the current emotional illness experienced by servicemen and women in Desert Storm, Afganistan and Irag. It is ultimatlely the same illness for all. The truly sad result of the Vietnam war was so many vets returned drug addicted to readily available heroin etc. The 60's were the years of the drug generation and the young US mitlitary draftees were influenced by this. The easy access to drugs and disillusionment with the purpose and meaning of the war, lack of support by the American public and a raft of other issues contributed to the social problems of Viet vets. It is not surprizing that so many fell into the ranks of the homeless. The homeless in America now is more of a national problem then the Depression years. And the homeless persons are mostly those in need of psychiatric care. An aside to "leni" our very young new member, enjoy your youthful exerburance, have fun, do no harm to any, including your self(mostly). Be proud of what you believe are you manly drinking achievements and rest on your laurels.
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Bob S
European
Rainbow Bear
Posts: 2,052
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Post by Bob S on Mar 28, 2008 20:07:35 GMT -7
I may sound callous and uncaring in this reply but a little perspective is needed. 4,000 in 4 yrs. are only 1/2 the casualties suffered in the Battle of Cold Harbor during the Civil War during the first 7 minutes of that battle. 4,000 in 4 yrs are only a small fraction of the casualities suffered in the D-Day invasion of the Normandy Beaches. 4,000 in four years are only a tiny, tiny fraction of the casualities the Marines took at Tarawa, Iwo Jima, Guadacanal and countless other Pacific Islands: look up the casualities at Iwo Jima. 4,000 in four years are less than a one day toll on American highways.
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Mary
Cosmopolitan
Posts: 934
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Post by Mary on Mar 28, 2008 20:19:15 GMT -7
I may sound callous and uncaring in this reply but a little perspective is needed. 4,000 in 4 yrs. are only 1/2 the casualties suffered in the Battle of Cold Harbor during the Civil War during the first 7 minutes of that battle. 4,000 in 4 yrs are only a small fraction of the casualities suffered in the D-Day invasion of the Normandy Beaches. 4,000 in four years are only a tiny, tiny fraction of the casualities the Marines took at Tarawa, Iwo Jima, Guadacanal and countless other Pacific Islands: look up the casualities at Iwo Jima. 4,000 in four years are less than a one day toll on American highways. Thanks for the prospective! What about Vietnam? (my generation, I lost so many friends there) The numbers are staggering, but I have a better feeling now, fighting terrorism, than I had for Vietnam. Many of you may disagree.... but this war is more justified than Vietnam was........ Unless you were of that age, you would not understand the hopelessness, and lack of future we all felt. Sad as it was, looking back, we had no hope for a future. My generation grew up living day to day.......... no wonder so many fell into drugs, booze, and promiscuity. Mary
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Mary
Cosmopolitan
Posts: 934
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Post by Mary on Mar 28, 2008 20:26:39 GMT -7
Franek! and other veterans.... PLEASE tell us if you feel that you were abandoned by our government. ? I know my father and other relatives didn't feel that way. Vietnam and the era of the drug revolution did leave a lot of Vets homeless, it also left a lot of Vets from my generation to lead, build and go onward with their heads held high.....and that wasn't easy....with the way THE PUBLIC, yes the public, treated the returning Vets. What do the rest of you think??? Were you there??? Do you remember???
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Mary
Cosmopolitan
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Post by Mary on Mar 28, 2008 20:56:14 GMT -7
This is just 1
One young man, whom was my brother's best friend, whom I once dated, who was such a loved, happy person, and so loved by all.............
*******************************************
Steven Allen Rickerson Lance Corporal K CO, 3RD BN, 3RD MARINES, 3RD MARDIV United States Marine Corps 04 December 1950 - 15 September 1969 Clarendon, Pennsylvania Panel 18W Line 091
The database page for Steven Allen Rickerson
28 Jan 2007 Still think of you after all these years. You would have been proud of us for the Yearbook! Rest easy, Buddy, and I'll have a lemon Coke for ya!
From a friend. E-Mail will be forwarded by the Webmaster@VirtualWall.org
A Note from The Virtual Wall Operation IDAHO CANYON was a two-month search and destroy mission in an area roughly bounded by the DMZ on the north, Highway QL-9 on the south, Con Thien on the east, and Khe Sanh to the west. The terrain was rugged, the hillsides jungled, and the North Vietnamese Army was present in force. In mid-September, 3rd Bn, 3rd Marines was operating predominantly along the Cam Lo River valley which ran northwest from Highway 9 into the DMZ between Mutter's Ridge and Hill 1739 north of Khe Sanh. Their Command Chronology for September 1969 contains the following entry:
"15 Sep 0830H - In the area of XD950261 elements of Co K were ambushed by a reinforced NVA platoon. The enemy used 30cal machinegun, AK47s, ChiComs [grenades], RPGs, and Claymore mines hung in trees. Forty-five minutes after contact, the unit began receiving 60mm mortar rounds for a period of 4 hours, totalling 50 rounds. The unit pulled back and called in artillery, 81mm mortars, gunships, and fixed wing. Results of the contact were 8 NVA KIA, 4 USMC KIA, and 36 USMC WIA." The death of Petty Officer Sickles is missing from the account, raising the toll to five dead: H&S Co, 3/3: HM3 James A. Sickles, Johnstown, PA Pfc Jerry G. Gatlin, Waukegan, IL
Kilo 3/3: Cpl William T. Bushey, Mahopac, NY LCpl Donald A. Liebl, Fairfax, MN LCpl Steven A. Rickerson, Clarendon, PA
*******************************************
I was in Washington, DC in Jan of 2004.....
Visited the "wall".....
Took a pencil and paper and ... got a tracing of Steve's name, engraved on that cold stone......... That,.... and his grave, (that I visit just a ways down the lane from my fathers) is all that is left.
Except for the memories of him, and when we are gone..... then what?
Just a name, in cold stone.........
A young 18 year old youngster.....Who closed a school for days, because he was so loved, that on the days of his viewing and then his funeral, all the Seniors and most of the Juniors, rebeled against the administartion and attended the ceremonies, under threat of expulsion.
The line for Steve's viewing was 4 blocks long..............
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Bob S
European
Rainbow Bear
Posts: 2,052
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Post by Bob S on Mar 28, 2008 22:55:09 GMT -7
Franek! and other veterans.... PLEASE tell us if you feel that you were abandoned by our government. ? I know my father and other relatives didn't feel that way. Vietnam and the era of the drug revolution did leave a lot of Vets homeless, it also left a lot of Vets from my generation to lead, build and go onward with their heads held high.....and that wasn't easy....with the way THE PUBLIC, yes the public, treated the returning Vets. What do the rest of you think??? Were you there??? Do you remember??? Gen 3. During that time I was in the Navy. Different people have different ideas and here are mine. To an extent I felt that the government did abandon us but, to a greater extent I felt that the people of America abandoned us completly. From the government we at least had a bit of lip service but from the people of America we had outright scorn and abuse. When I was in a foreign country I could always count on getting the question "Why can't America do this or that for the rest of the world?'. My reply would be; "Why can't YOUR country or other Countries get off their dead dupas and do something?". There was never a reply. I stayed in the Navy despite the Government or protestors because America is the "IDEA" and not those people. If the government and people of the Vietnam era had been around in the 1940's we would never have been in Europe and those people would be on the beaches of Hawii waving a White surrender flag the day after Pearl Harbor. There will always be someone or something evil in the world and God did not give us a guarntee that we would be free of strife.
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Bob S
European
Rainbow Bear
Posts: 2,052
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Post by Bob S on Mar 28, 2008 23:38:57 GMT -7
Gen 3 here ar two excerpds from a speech by President T.R. "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcomming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiams, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." and "Shame on the man of cultivated taste who permits refinement to develop into fastidousness that unfits him for doing the rough work of a workaday world. Among the free peoples who govern themselves there is but a small field of usefulness open for the men of cloistered life who shrink from contact with their fellows. Still less room is there for those who deride of slight what is done by those who actually bear the brunt of the day; nor yet for those others who always profess that they would like to take action, if only the conditions of life were not what they actually are. the man who does nothing cuts the same sordid figure in the pages of history, whether he be cynic, or fop, or voluptuary. There is little use for the being whose tepid soul knows nothing of great and generous emotion, of the high pride, the stern belief, the lofty enthusiasm, of the men who quell the storm and ride the thunder. Well for these men if they succeed; well also, though not so well if they fail, given only that they have nobly ventured, and have put forth all their heart and strength. It is war-torn Hotspur, spent with hard fighting, he of the many errors and valient end, over whose memory we love to linger, not the memory of the young lord who "but for the vile guns would have been a valient soldier."
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leni
Freshman Pole
Posts: 29
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Post by leni on Mar 29, 2008 2:53:22 GMT -7
Concerned Americans try to help the veterans. The rare instance when an American vet is finally recognized and rewarded for his/her brave contributions is usually followed by a great outcry for better treatment and then it's back to the same old same old. This has been the pattern of veteran assistance since WW I. WW I returning servicemen with war related emotional problems were diagnosed "shellshocked". In WW II it was called "battle fatigue", maybe the same for the Korean War. Vietnam it was "post tramautic stress syndrome". I'm not sure what label the Armed Forces place on the current emotional illness experienced by servicemen and women in Desert Storm, Afganistan and Irag. It is ultimatlely the same illness for all. The truly sad result of the Vietnam war was so many vets returned drug addicted to readily available heroin etc. The 60's were the years of the drug generation and the young US mitlitary draftees were influenced by this. The easy access to drugs and disillusionment with the purpose and meaning of the war, lack of support by the American public and a raft of other issues contributed to the social problems of Viet vets. It is not surprizing that so many fell into the ranks of the homeless. The homeless in America now is more of a national problem then the Depression years. And the homeless persons are mostly those in need of psychiatric care. An aside to "leni" our very young new member, enjoy your youthful exerburance, have fun, do no harm to any, including your self(mostly). Be proud of what you believe are you manly drinking achievements and rest on your laurels. yeah im here for a week and im already an alcoholic in your eyes, wow , but nvm After studies i also plan to join polish army, i know that there is my poor future i know i wont be able to just work like a normal person, you have to feel it, maybe wont be richbut atleast maybe i will be happy or will die in some end of the world but all in all i can die even on the street in the car accident
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